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  #331  
Old 11-06-2015, 04:18 PM
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dontlifttoshift dontlifttoshift is offline
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So I just came across this gem on a bmw forum.



Of particular note are sensors number MT1297 and MT1339. They use the same connector and have nearly the same voltage readings but one is female 3/8-24.....same as a female Vintage Air trinary switch. VA has adapters to install that into a drier or inline fitting if you want.

MT1297 transfers to a GM 22599559 or ACDelco 15-72104 and it seems to have the same pressure/voltage ramp as the one parsons outlined about 4 pages back.


****Edit**** ACdelco 15-72104 does not fit the Vintage Air adapters. Thread and pitch are wrong so that is out.....back to the previous plan.
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Last edited by dontlifttoshift; 11-16-2015 at 10:57 AM. Reason: adding info
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  #332  
Old 11-11-2015, 12:42 PM
Old66Tiger Old66Tiger is offline
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That's cool. I sent an email VA asking about an adapter and no response. The only fitting I see that would work is a Schrader style but not sure if that is what you are referring to.
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  #333  
Old 11-11-2015, 01:48 PM
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dontlifttoshift dontlifttoshift is offline
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This adapter will thread into the drier and _should_ work with the GM sensor noted above. I am waiting for my sensors to get here and confirm.

18103-VUG

All the driers have two ports on them now so if you can package it with the sensor and the binary switch you are done.

If not, there are inline fittings available.

347561-VUR #6 ez clip

34829-VUG #6 beadlock

Parsons noted earlier that GM puts the sensor in the #8 between the compressor and the condenser, that would allow the ecm to see the highest pressure in the system and is likely the best spot for it. When I get to charging the AC, I'll keep an eye on how the fan cycles in relation to pressure and adjust the table as needed. I don't expect a need to do that though.
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  #334  
Old 11-11-2015, 02:22 PM
Old66Tiger Old66Tiger is offline
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I have a spare 34098-VUG which comes with the 18103 fitting. That fitting has a Schrader valve in it and I wasn't sure if that would work with the GM switch. They make that so you can swap bi/tri switches without having to empty the system first. I agree that the #8 would be best but VA is only making #6 line t and ports. - hence the need for the 34098 fitting. If I can piggy back the two switch fittings, that would be awesome. I am using the aluminum drier and that has no ports on it.
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  #335  
Old 11-11-2015, 03:48 PM
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The metric GM sensors are set up for a schrader as well. The question is does the standard thread sensor seal with an oring on the bottom like the metric one does. If so, this won't work.
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  #336  
Old 11-13-2015, 09:10 AM
Old66Tiger Old66Tiger is offline
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I found this site yesterday. These are the #6 male/female inline switch fittings for either the 7/16-20 Trinary switch or the M10X1.25 metric fitting. I have a call into them to make sure that these will work. If so...the switch quandry is over.

Just confirmed with them and these fittings will work
https://coldhose.com/universal-switches.html

Last edited by Old66Tiger; 11-13-2015 at 10:43 AM.
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  #337  
Old 11-21-2015, 12:32 PM
parsonsj parsonsj is offline
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So I've got another couple of questions for those in the know.

1. Anybody connect a "clutch-in" sensor to the ECM? It seems that the key to not having decel pop in the exhaust during clutch-in (like a gear shift) is for the ECM to know what the clutch is doing.

2. Any thoughts on adjusting the AC torque vs AC pressure table? The factory AC compressors are variable displacement... while our after-market Sandens are clutch-controlled. Does that make a difference in how much torque is consumed by the compressor for a given amount of AC pressure?

thanks!
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  #338  
Old 11-21-2015, 06:52 PM
mikels mikels is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parsonsj View Post
So I've got another couple of questions for those in the know.

1. Anybody connect a "clutch-in" sensor to the ECM? It seems that the key to not having decel pop in the exhaust during clutch-in (like a gear shift) is for the ECM to know what the clutch is doing.

2. Any thoughts on adjusting the AC torque vs AC pressure table? The factory AC compressors are variable displacement... while our after-market Sandens are clutch-controlled. Does that make a difference in how much torque is consumed by the compressor for a given amount of AC pressure?

thanks!
Clutch position sensor allows you to enable and use CFCO (clutch fuel cut off) similar in function to DFCO (decel fuel cut off) but obviously triggered off clutch position.

Popping can still occur if spark / fuel criteria when entering CFCO / DFCO is wrong. Many calibrators turn off DFCO to eliminate decel popping as an 'easy' fix - but why fuel an engine that you are not asking to create torque? Takes some time to get CFCO/DFCO entry / exit criteria correct to eliminate pops.

Biggest benefit from CASS (clutch apply sensor switch) is ability to rapidly drop engine RPM's with clutch apply (which puts less load into trans syncro's as well) as CFCO cuts fueling to engine. BTW - later calibrations use potentiometer style CASS - while earlier systems used Top-of-Travel and Bottom-of-Travel switches (separate). You typically cannot change the type of switch used with your particular software.

Your second question while correct - you could adjust table that relates AC compressor torque to pressure, but really makes no difference as you are likely not using torque model (or it is vastly incorrect) if you have modified your engine. The slight load from AC compressor is nothing to the engine (assuming V8's.....). This does assume you do not have spark advanced at idle so much as to remove all reserve torque (which is ability of engine to absorb additional torque loads with negligable effects).

Dave
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  #339  
Old 11-22-2015, 08:55 AM
parsonsj parsonsj is offline
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Thanks Dave. I followed your whole post... I've learned a lot about how GM tunes the LS9 with the E67 in the past few months.

I agree with you about DFCO. Seems like a little time can get that right -- but I am chasing decel popping, and nothing I've done has made any real difference in that. I didn't install a CASS sensor -- though I will on the next car.

My customer's engine is stock, except for the intake tube and exhaust. I'd think the torque model would be pretty close. I've got some histograms defined that I think can help me validate that, though I need a loaded dyno to make sure. In the meantime, I've increased the AC torque table by 10% to see if can get a softer response when I turn on/off the AC.

I've reduced coast down spark to reduce popping on decel and clutch in... I'll post back if I make good progress.
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Last edited by parsonsj; 11-22-2015 at 09:23 AM.
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  #340  
Old 11-22-2015, 05:47 PM
parsonsj parsonsj is offline
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I added about 5-8 degrees of spark advance from 800 rpm to 4000 rpm in the lowest three rows of coast down spark (.08, .12, .16 cyl air), and blended those changes in to the row and columns around that.

Big improvement.

I see the WB go lean during decel (16.00 +) with spark from 28 to 40 depending on rpm, no Knock Retard, and just a hint of decel pop.

Now to fix the occasional stall when rolling to a stop.
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