...

Go Back   Lateral-g Forums > Technical Discussions > Chassis and Suspension
User Name
Password



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 12-24-2013, 02:10 PM
avewhtboy's Avatar
avewhtboy avewhtboy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Stone Mountain GA
Posts: 47
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Sutton View Post

Yup,

I suggest the serrated mount on the housing that is adjustable in 1/4 inch increments, is light & relatively affordable under $100. For the frame mount, I'd suggest the slotted assembly as the least expensive route (around $60) or the threaded adjusters like I use which cost $300-400 but adjust by simply turning a ratchet end.

Let me know if you need help sourcing the stuff.


The problem I keep coming across with brackets is, my axle tubes are 2.75 inches and all the brackets seem to be made for 3" or more.
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 12-24-2013, 04:16 PM
Ron Sutton's Avatar
Ron Sutton Ron Sutton is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom, CA
Posts: 2,927
Thanks: 45
Thanked 35 Times in 27 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by avewhtboy View Post
The problem I keep coming across with brackets is, my axle tubes are 2.75 inches and all the brackets seem to be made for 3" or more.
I'm assuming you're going to weld it on anyway, so just make the bracket shorter & do a little TLC in the mouth of the bracket.
__________________
Ron Sutton Race Technology
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 12-29-2013, 08:40 PM
avewhtboy's Avatar
avewhtboy avewhtboy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Stone Mountain GA
Posts: 47
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Sutton View Post
I'm assuming you're going to weld it on anyway, so just make the bracket shorter & do a little TLC in the mouth of the bracket.

I hate buying stuff that doesn't fit, but I am learning such is the way of life when you plod new paths!

So I have reworked the rear suspension a bit, I think this is better but may need some rework. I set the motor and transmission in trying to get the proper driveline angle to make sure everything is aligned.


I bought some more qa1 teflon rod ends, weld in tube ends and some tubing to make new lower trailing arms once I am happy with the location of all the different pieces of the puzzle. I need to figure out where and what type of sway bar to fit in their and maybe some exhaust lay out too.











Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 12-29-2013, 10:21 PM
Jtomas801's Avatar
Jtomas801 Jtomas801 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 249
Thanks: 4
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by avewhtboy View Post
The problem I keep coming across with brackets is, my axle tubes are 2.75 inches and all the brackets seem to be made for 3" or more.
Maybe get some 3" x .125" wall tubing, cut it in half so you have a c shape. Weld the c shape to the axle then weld the 3" bracket on top of that?

Jon
__________________
_______________________________________________
Jonathan Feltis
69 AMC Javelin - Back in Progress.
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 12-29-2013, 11:18 PM
Ron Sutton's Avatar
Ron Sutton Ron Sutton is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom, CA
Posts: 2,927
Thanks: 45
Thanked 35 Times in 27 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by avewhtboy View Post
I hate buying stuff that doesn't fit, but I am learning such is the way of life when you plod new paths!

So I have reworked the rear suspension a bit, I think this is better but may need some rework. I set the motor and transmission in trying to get the proper driveline angle to make sure everything is aligned.


I bought some more qa1 teflon rod ends, weld in tube ends and some tubing to make new lower trailing arms once I am happy with the location of all the different pieces of the puzzle. I need to figure out where and what type of sway bar to fit in their and maybe some exhaust lay out too.
Much better angles on the shock mounts.

I noticed you haven't done anything to the panhard bar yet. But you posted a good top "bird's eye" view photo that shows the panhard bar is WAY, WAY back far away from the axle housing. In my experience, you will break the mount off the housing.

Both sides of the panhard bar need to be moved forward, closer to the housing. Ideally, I'd suggest 3/4" to 1" of clearance between the shocks or rear diff cover (whichever sticks back farthest) and the panhard bar. And even then, you should run a 45 brace off the housing to the panhard bar mount.

These mounts see some serious side loads in AutoX & road course track days, and will simply break if too long, too weak and/or not braced well.


P.S. Do me a favor & post your name next time. I dislike talking to a "forum handle". Thanks !

__________________
Ron Sutton Race Technology
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 12-29-2013, 11:21 PM
Ron Sutton's Avatar
Ron Sutton Ron Sutton is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom, CA
Posts: 2,927
Thanks: 45
Thanked 35 Times in 27 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtomas801 View Post
Maybe get some 3" x .125" wall tubing, cut it in half so you have a c shape. Weld the c shape to the axle then weld the 3" bracket on top of that?

Jon

Hey Jon,
Thanks for chiming in. Your suggestion will surely work.

As a racer, I tend to be extremely weight conscious ... I run $8 hollow chromoly bolts on anything 7/16" or larger, so you know I'm extreme. So I don't like fixes that add weight.

But if it is only street driven or you're not a weight Nazi like me, your solution would be good & strong.


__________________
Ron Sutton Race Technology
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 12-30-2013, 07:28 PM
avewhtboy's Avatar
avewhtboy avewhtboy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Stone Mountain GA
Posts: 47
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Sorry Ron, My name is Rick, I really appreciate all your contributions on these threads. Just a little background, I crewed for SCCA/IMSA team for about 10 years but we ran Camaros and Firebirds that were "stock" so while I know some principals this project is biggest I have under taken.

I am one of those people who knows just enough to be dangerous!

Thanks for pointing out the panhard location. The way I had the shocks
mounted before kind of dictated the location where it was, but now that the shocks are leaning forward that opened up the real estate where I had originally planned to put the panhard bar. I will be bracing mounts accordingly as I feel things are in their final location. I will run another link toward the driver side of the car from the frame bracket as well as gusset the bracket on the axle.

I bring you iteration number, I lost count.




Last edited by avewhtboy; 12-30-2013 at 07:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 12-30-2013, 08:17 PM
Ron Sutton's Avatar
Ron Sutton Ron Sutton is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom, CA
Posts: 2,927
Thanks: 45
Thanked 35 Times in 27 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by avewhtboy View Post
Sorry Ron, My name is Rick, I really appreciate all your contributions on these threads. Just a little background, I crewed for SCCA/IMSA team for about 10 years but we ran Camaros and Firebirds that were "stock" so while I know some principals this project is biggest I have under taken.

I am one of those people who knows just enough to be dangerous!

Thanks for pointing out the panhard location. The way I had the shocks
mounted before kind of dictated the location where it was, but now that the shocks are leaning forward that opened up the real estate where I had originally planned to put the panhard bar. I will be bracing mounts accordingly as I feel things are in their final location. I will run another link toward the driver side of the car from the frame bracket as well as gusset the bracket on the axle.

I bring you iteration number, I lost count.

Hey Rick,

It looks good. Keep us updated on your project & feel free to ask more questions when you have them.


__________________
Ron Sutton Race Technology
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 01-01-2014, 02:48 AM
Jtomas801's Avatar
Jtomas801 Jtomas801 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 249
Thanks: 4
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Hello Ron,

I was wondering what you use material wise for suspension links? pre-made swedged tubes or do you build your own out of DOM with welded ends?

Also curious about what size tubing to run, I have ~31" links center to center. Most seem to use 1.25" x .120" wall dom but, they look to be using shorter link lengths. I was also thinking of running 1.375" x .095" wall so I could use threaded adapters with a hex on the left hand side.


Happy New Year,
Jon
__________________
_______________________________________________
Jonathan Feltis
69 AMC Javelin - Back in Progress.
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 01-01-2014, 04:37 PM
Ron Sutton's Avatar
Ron Sutton Ron Sutton is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom, CA
Posts: 2,927
Thanks: 45
Thanked 35 Times in 27 Posts
Default

Hi Jon, Happy New Year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtomas801 View Post
Hello Ron,

I was wondering what you use material wise for suspension links? pre-made swedged tubes or do you build your own out of DOM with welded ends?

Also curious about what size tubing to run, I have ~31" links center to center. Most seem to use 1.25" x .120" wall dom but, they look to be using shorter link lengths. I was also thinking of running 1.375" x .095" wall so I could use threaded adapters with a hex on the left hand side.


Happy New Year,
Jon

For road course, AutoX & circle track use, the pre-made swedged tubes work well & I prefer them because they're light. Like anything, there are good & not-so-good quality brands. It comes down to the process & grade of DOM material used. I have actually had swedged tubes that weren't threaded straight from one manufacturer, so I don't buy that brand if I can avoid it.

The size of the link I select depends on the load. For 3-links, I run 1" tubes on the two lowers ... because the load is split. I run 1.25" on the single upper link because that one link is handling twice the load. I do not run 4-links in road course, AutoX & circle track cars, but if you do, using 1" tubes on all four links is plenty strong.

For Watt's links, which are relatively short & two split the side load forces, I use 1" links. For panhard bars, which are twice as long and carry the full side load forces, I use 1.25" links.

For real high shock load applications like drag racing
, the swedged tubes won't hold up. The threads pull out after ___# of high rpm launches with slicks. For these apps, DOM tubing with Tig welded in spuds is the minimum, and 4130 chromoly tubing is preferred for higher hp cars. The threaded spud inserts are hamde out of better, harder material than DOM tubing, so the threads end up being stronger.

For drag race 4-links, 1" tubing links are fine for lower powered cars, but as you go up in power, go up in tubing size. 1-3/8" is what the 2500hp Pro Mods use, but for most of our use here that would be overkill.

I'm not opposed to making things strong. But I am opposed to making suspension pieces heavy. I believe in making things as strong as they need to be, so you don't have to worry about them ... but still inspect them from time to time. But weight makes the suspension lazy. A heavy suspension has a harder time following the irregularities in the track surface, so there is less grip.

Lighter suspensions ... providing the shocks & springs are capable ... follow the irregularities of the track surface better, so there is more grip.


__________________
Ron Sutton Race Technology

Last edited by Ron Sutton; 01-02-2014 at 10:32 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright Lateral-g.net