NorCal Shelby Mini Nats - Aug 2nd and 3rd

[Ron Sutton]

Originally Posted by Panteracer

I am wondering about running the A6's (autocross tires)
on the race track.. it was always my understanding that
they heated up quicker but will not sustain the longer runs
of heat required by the race track and 20 minute sessions

Heat cycling always help the tire last longer but not sure
if that type of heat cycling will work... I do understand
that race slicks have several compounds from soft to hard
just wondering about the A6's??

Ron or anyone had any experience with them

Panteracer Norcal Bob

Was hoping to be going to Optima in Oregon that weekend

Originally Posted by GregWeld

WE are trying the A6 because of the tire temp measurements of the R6's when running Thunderhill.

We ARE not racing.... and I'm certainly no race car driver.... a real race car driver would most certainly generate too much heat... but I don't. I also have a complete set of R6's mounted on another set of wheels -- so if the temps tells us the A6 is getting too hot... a simple switch will be made. WE are doing this based on the science of our own measurements, rather than, what someone told someone else's buddy one time.

The tire pressures I WAS using were near but not close enough... actual measurements of the tire temps and ending pressures etc gave us the info needed to set the tires right. Now - that's the new numbers being used instead of just kinda sorta someone else is using X pressure.

I have quite a bit of experience running and/or testing most of the Hoosier tire line. In addition to being a great autocross tire, the A6's are a great track tire as long as you don't over heat them. And by overheat them I mean run them at 230°+ for several laps. That would shorten their life considerably.

What I saw at the track was ... by the end of the weekend ... Greg was driving the hot rod at 90-95% ... braking moderately ... being smooth with the throttle, braking & steering ... which all keeps the tires happy ... and cooler. As he pushed the car harder & ran those 2.08-2.10 lap times, the tires came back in the mid-to-high 160° range.

Another part of the reason for cooler temps is the track sessions are short ... 20 minutes ... about 9 laps. Frankly, it takes a couple laps for the R6's to really come in. So for 2 of the 9 laps you need to be more conservative.

Greg will have better braking on the car for Sonoma, so the rotor temps coming up will also increase the tire temps. I think that plus the softer compound will put us 20-30° higher temps with the A6's ... putting them in the 180-190° range ... which is right in their sweet spot. And these tires will warm up quicker & provide grip the driver can be confident in MUCH earlier in a session.

Greg's goal is to have more fun. IMHO, if you tow your hot rod all the way to the track and run 4 sessions of 9 laps ... 36 laps ... and we can make 8 of those laps more fun (with more grip) ... that achieves the goal. The A6's will wear quicker than R6's, but when you factor in all the cost to go run a track day, it's minor compared to having 22% more "fun."

That's the reason I suggested A6's for Greg's Hot Rod.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Flash68

Nice changing of the subject.... Rob is right - your river of hypocrisy is running pretty deep right now.

I mean, no one blames you. Why would you buy a track car and not wanna at least go fast(er)?

Oh --- I know I'm eating my words.... but I still have to sling arrows while ducking for cover don't I?


I really didn't bring Ron in to go faster... Rather - to make the car EASIER to drive -- which happens to equate into going faster.

I think my points have always been mistaken as "I could care less" --- which is only partly true....

What IS true - is that I have never been willing to mess with stuff I know NOTHING about -- And I've been around just barely long enough to know that most people that THINK they know what they're doing - DON'T. Therefore -- I'd prefer to do nothing - than I would mess up what I know I already have.

Once Ron was willing - and able - to become part of the team... NOW I'm ready to do what he recommends. Once the car is as dialed in as I want to take it... there will be very little if any changes. The whole thing with Ron is to get the car to an acceptable race ready point - and go back to sitting on my ass.

Having TWO cars made all of this abundantly clear to me that one of them wasn't up to snuff - and the other is so much faster - that it needed to be made safer and easier.


Funny what I've learned already --- which is the OPPOSITE of what LOGIC would have told me to do.... i.e., my brake compound may need to be LESS aggressive rather than MORE aggressive... This is funny because most guys have to go for "MORE" is better and BIGGER is better... and I'm learning that it's more about what's RIGHT. Kinda like a camshaft. Once a guy learns that the cam needs only do what it's intended purpose is -- the "bigger is better" goes right out the window.

This is where a real pro like Ron comes into play. We'll get it right - rather than just toss a bunch of big name expensive parts at it, and then wonder why it still doesn't work...

[GregWeld]

AND THIS, MY FRIENDS, IS THE KIND OF SCIENCE THAT'S WORTH PAYING FOR. Because for me -- WHO KNEW??? Ron Sutton is who knew!!!

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton

I have quite a bit of experience running and/or testing most of the Hoosier tire line. In addition to being a great autocross tire, the A6's are a great track tire as long as you don't over heat them. And by overheat them I mean run them at 230°+ for several laps. That would shorten their life considerably.

What I saw at the track was ... by the end of the weekend ... Greg was driving the hot rod at 90-95% ... braking moderately ... being smooth with the throttle, braking & steering ... which all keeps the tires happy ... and cooler. As he pushed the car harder & ran those 2.08-2.10 lap times, the tires came back in the mid-to-high 160° range.

Another part of the reason for cooler temps is the track sessions are short ... 20 minutes ... about 9 laps. Frankly, it takes a couple laps for the R6's to really come in. So for 2 of the 9 laps you need to be more conservative.

Greg will have better braking on the car for Sonoma, so the rotor temps coming up will also increase the tire temps. I think that plus the softer compound will put us 20-30° higher temps with the A6's ... putting them in the 180-190° range ... which is right in their sweet spot. And these tires will warm up quicker & provide grip the driver can be confident in MUCH earlier in a session.

Greg's goal is to have more fun. IMHO, if you tow your hot rod all the way to the track and run 4 sessions of 9 laps ... 36 laps ... and we can make 8 of those laps more fun (with more grip) ... that achieves the goal. The A6's will wear quicker than R6's, but when you factor in all the cost to go run a track day, it's minor compared to having 22% more "fun."

That's the reason I suggested A6's for Greg's Hot Rod.

[Flash68]

[GregWeld]

Did you ever get the orange stain out of your fingers??


That probably needs to go away before the baby comes...



I'd suggest soaking in straight bleach and Simple Green... You can do that with the mixture in a dish or small bowl (think of MADGE commercials) while eating Bon-Bons and watch your daytime soaps.

[LM7_67]

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton

Cool,

So Jeff & Dave are coming.

Anybody else want to break away from Honey-do's or sleeping in & join us?

We don't want to have all this fun without you. Trust me ... we will ... but we don't "want to".

You guys need to come more south!

[Track Junky]

Originally Posted by LM7_67

You guys need to come more south!

Buttonwillow with NCRC in September

[intocarss]

Originally Posted by Track Junky

Buttonwillow with NCRC in September

We should be there testing some new suspension mods on the truck

[GregWeld]

Well then.... those pics pretty much explain the automatic....



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! OMG those are hysterical!

Originally Posted by intocarss

We should be there testing some new suspension mods on the truck

[Track Junky]

Originally Posted by intocarss

We should be there testing some new suspension mods on the truck

Nice. You going to make it out in September Jer?