Which oil pump?

[4OfaKind]

I am building a GEN I SBC 383 w/ a pair of T04 turbos. I'm est hp @ around 600 - 800 max. I hope to use the motor in my DD tri-five and at events like Otima Batteries Challenge & RTTH.

Which wet sump oil pump would you guys recommend? Is a billet pump like Titan or Moroso neccessary or overkill? What pump are you using or have used in the past? How real is the threat of cavitation in limited use time trial events w/ only short blasts to 6-8k rpm?

Thanks,
Mal

[G-Body]

SB 's have a great designed oiling system already.
a melling select pump is more than enough ecs in a higher volume and not pressure! pump style sounds like a fun motor. but yes a billet pump will do the job just at a bigger cost.

[chevyIIpost]

My two cents would that it is an oiling SYSTEM. The pump just being one componant of said SYSTEM. I agree that a Melling select pump is a good choice. I would be more concerned on a wet sump system about getting the correct pan and pickup for the type of driving conditions and usage. If you don't keep the pickup submerged in oil 100% of the time the pump can't do it's job. Bearing clearance is part of this system and if you havent opened up the clearances to much I would stay with a standard volumn pump.

[4OfaKind]

Originally Posted by G-Body

SB 's have a great designed oiling system already.
a melling select pump is more than enough ecs in a higher volume and not pressure! pump style sounds like a fun motor. but yes a billet pump will do the job just at a bigger cost.

G-Body,

What is "ECS"? This information is what I am trying to consider: The pros and cons between the different styles of pumps, if volume or pressure is more desirable.

C-II

I agree the complete system will be addressed; I just thought it would be a good idea to start with the heart. Then ensure the heart is submerged. And finally ensure there are no clogged arteries or internal bleeding. Plans call for a custom baffeled pan once I choose which pump to use.

Thanks guys,

Mal

[chevyIIpost]

The gen 1 SBC has lived through many laps of saturday night circle track racing with standard preasure standard volume stock type oil pumps for many years. It is one of the best stock oiling systems. Blue print/measure/inspect every component. Volume and preasure are tied to each other. One effects the other. If oil temp/viscosity is correct and bearing clearances are reasonable a higher volume pump will just result in more oil being bypassed at the pump at what ever preasure value that the bypass spring is set to. A stock volume pump will provide adequate preasure and volume if the engine is not running excessivley loose clearances and spraying oil all over the place. If you can maintain 60 psi of oil preasure with the oil and engine at operating temps than you have enough volume or preasure would fall off. The SBC does not need higher oil preasure. The rule of thumb is 10 psi per 1000 rpms of engine speed. 60 psi at 6000 rpm. If you use the same 60 psi oil preasure releif spring in a high volume pump you will get to the same 60psi and the same volume of oil to the bearings but the releif valve will be passing that higher volume of oil back into the pan wasting horse power and heating the oil. I beleive the hole high volume oil pump concept came from the early days of engine building when clearances where increased from stock spec to an excessive amount with hopes of making the engine survive in racing enviroments. These increased clearances caused massive leakage from the main and rod bearings and the stock volume pump could not put out enough oil to maintain preasure. The increased clearances where bandaids for other problems with the engine componants and build practices of the times. Bearing clearances are now keep closer to stock allowing a stock volume pump to do the job just fine. If you have preasure you have volume. I would clean up the oil passage alignment between the oil pump discarge and main cap inlet just like port matching intake to heads. Melling and others have had problems with this area. The stock volume pumps I have blue printed will idle at 40 psi and run to 60psi at less than 2000 rpm at full temp.

[4OfaKind]

Originally Posted by chevyIIpost

The gen 1 SBC has lived through many laps of saturday night circle track racing with standard preasure standard volumn stock type oil pumps for many years. It is one of the best stock oiling systems. Blue print/measure/inspect every component. Volumn and preasure are tied to each other. One effects the other. If oil temp/viscosity is correct and bearing clearances are reasonable a higher volumn pump will just result in more oil being bypassed at the pump at what ever preasure value that the bypass spring is set to. A stock volumn pump will provide adequate preasure and volumn if the engine is not running excessivley loose clearances and spraying oil all over the place. If you can maintain 60 psi of oil preasure with the oil and engine at operating temps than you have enough volumn or preasure would fall off. The SBC does not need higher oil preasure. The rule of thumb is 10 psi per 1000 rpms of engine speed. 60 psi at 6000 rpm. If you use the same 60 psi oil preasure releif spring in a high volumn pump you will get to the same 60psi and the same volumn of oil to the bearings but the releif valve will be passing that higher volumn of oil back into the pan wasting horse power and heating the oil. I beleive the hole high volumn oil pump concept came from the early days of engine building when clearances where increased from stock spec to an excessive amount with hopes of making the engine survive in racing enviroments. These increased clearances caused massive leakage from the main and rod bearings and the stock volumn pump could not put out enough oil to maintain preasure. The increased clearances where bandaids for other problems with the engine componants and build practices of the times. Bearing clearances are now keep closer to stock allowing a stock volumn pump to do the job just fine. If you have preasure you have volumn. I would clean up the oil passage alignment between the oil pump discarge and main cap inlet just like port matching intake to heads. Melling and others have had problems with this area. The stock volumn pumps I have blue printed will idle at 40 psi and run to 60psi at less than 2000 rpm at full temp.

Ted,

You da man! Thanks! I can mark off another part as an early Christmas present.

[4OfaKind]

Ok I have been looking around; any particular part # you guys recommend from Melling, Moroso, Summit, Milodon, Seal Power, or CVR? Man so many of the same thing!

Mal

[JUSTANOVA]

Originally Posted by 4OfaKind

Ok I have been looking around; any particular part # you guys recommend from Melling, Moroso, Summit, Milodon, Seal Power, or CVR? Man so many of the same thing!

Mal

I dont have a part# but i read a while ago on the jalopy journal about melling on their standard pumps made the castings thinner in the neck area of the pump and some drag racers were having problems with breaking the pump off if they had any tire shake problems when launching but the melling "select" pump is thicker and is the cure. that or a billet pump. other than that i think chevyIIpost has it pretty much covered.

[G-Body]

ECS= ecspecially! The high volume will keep the bearings happy high preasure pump will not help unless the rest of the system is modified aswell meaning oil gallerys messaged and opened up etc. no sense in having alot of pressure ecspecially in a relatively stock SB have to watch if you do will blow past the rings!

[4OfaKind]

I selected (no pun) the Melling Select 10552. Based my choice on the info about Melling pumps failing. And the fact Melling makes pumps for Moroso, Sealed Power, and others; they just stamp on a different name.

CVR Products makes their own forged steel and billet pumps as opposed to cast iron. But at $200 and $400 respectively, they looked nice but were unnecessary.

Thanks again guys for the help. I now know more than I ever wanted about oil pumps.

Mal