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  #621  
Old 08-14-2018, 09:07 AM
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Rob's (FETornio) post sums up the situation 100%......

I could have bought a brand new Porsche Cup car.... I could have bought a Howe with all kinds of upgrades.... I could have bought any number of well sorted designs. We weren't forging new ground here.

Go to a track -- on any weekend there are 100's of other guys doing this and doing it faster and better.

I didn't need any new cars. I built this to satisfy two desires -- to help a friend and to get a car with a sequential. My other three cars would not tech for NASA TTU or even HDPE. Simple fixes that would take two weekends and some rattle can touch up.

I chose, instead, to let a man stand on my shoulders so he could put his nose over the wall... I chose poorly - my head told me just to order a car from an outfit like Howe - that's all they do - would have been over the top for a track day toy.... and is a proven platform..... But that didn't satisfy the "help a friend" part of this ordeal.

THAT IS NOT ALL THAT TRANSPIRED HERE ---- There's all the other folks that came forward that changed everything for me. So many people who have also had their hopes and dreams hanging on a thread - waiting - losing valuable time - crushed in many cases..... THAT IS WHEN I GOT MAD.

Trust, honesty, and my friends/family, are EVERYTHING to me.... without that - you're nothing. My name and doing biz with people means something to me. It's so much more than MONEY to me. I can buy my way out.... most can not. And I personally don't have time for phony friends that use me. I supposedly already have terminal cancer (second time doing this dance) -- I don't need "cancerous friends". And you guys don't either.

Call SpeedTech -- UMI -- BMR -- Ridetech -- Morrison -- Schwartz -- Roadster Shop - Chassisworks...... all top notch supporters here with real actual businesses.
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  #622  
Old 08-14-2018, 10:06 AM
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There is no way in 2018 this should keep happening on this site.

I see two reasons why it's happened twice:'

1. It takes guts to call someone out publicly.

2. It's embarrassing to admit you got taken advantage of publicly.

A simple vendor rating system would likely go a long ways in defeating the above. Look at every major website that sells anything, they keep their vendors and products accountable. They do it for the integrity of their business and that means looking out for your members FIRST. In the long term, it rewards the good guys that are doing it right.
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  #623  
Old 08-14-2018, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas69 View Post
There is no way in 2018 this should keep happening on this site.

I see two reasons why it's happened twice:'

1. It takes guts to call someone out publicly.

2. It's embarrassing to admit you got taken advantage of publicly.

A simple vendor rating system would likely go a long ways in defeating the above. Look at every major website that sells anything, they keep their vendors and products accountable. They do it for the integrity of their business and that means looking out for your members FIRST. In the long term, it rewards the good guys that are doing it right.
I agree 100% with Todd here. It may be time to change it up.
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  #624  
Old 08-14-2018, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas69 View Post
There is no way in 2018 this should keep happening on this site.

I see two reasons why it's happened twice:'

1. It takes guts to call someone out publicly.

2. It's embarrassing to admit you got taken advantage of publicly.

A simple vendor rating system would likely go a long ways in defeating the above. Look at every major website that sells anything, they keep their vendors and products accountable. They do it for the integrity of their business and that means looking out for your members FIRST. In the long term, it rewards the good guys that are doing it right.
The problem is there are always 3 sides to every story. Like Greg said he was trying to help a friend just as much if not more then getting the actual car. The car was a by product of the actual end result.

The bigger problem is the education and the quality level of what is actual good enough and acceptable. We have all seen guys post work on their own car or professional work that people are having done that is posted on this site and think damn that looks rough. Or that isn't going to work and see plenty of people comment below with any emoji saying how awesome it looks when it doesn't and probably wont work or work very well. I wont name names but I got a text a few weeks before this messy situation came to light with some people questioning some things that were posted in this thread.

And In my 18 years of being in business I have learned that some times the customer can be smarter then the builder or the builder and the customer are both totally clueless. Or the customer thinks they are a big shot and know exactly what they want and think this is going to do exactly what they want because some companies marketing campaign told them it was what they needed. I have started some projects in the past from other shops that I'm convinced could never have been completed. The customer was unaware of that fact, and I wonder if the builder was just that shady or if they were just as clueless as the owner. Building a car takes alot of different things into account that have to be done in a proper order and with proper fore thought. Everything affects everything it seems some times. Some times we would have been better off to just have started over completely. It would have been less work in the end.

Greg, I know you will get it resolved and I wish more people would stand up and say what was wrong with the parts you txt me pics of and stuff. People need education. There is no reason to drag anyone through the mud further, pick up your stuff learn the lessons and move on. Dont trust a guy just because he said he is trust worthy. Look at the entirety of their work not just the smoke and mirrors. If some one has to tell you how good they are, they probably are not as good as they say.
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  #625  
Old 08-14-2018, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash68 View Post
Ron Sutton Race Technologies was removed as a vendor by Lateral-G.
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Originally Posted by Flash68 View Post
He still has a regular user account... his vendor status and ads were revoked/removed.
I think it's important to note that Ron Sutton Race Technologies has also been removed from other websites. This isn't just a Lateral-G thing.
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  #626  
Old 08-14-2018, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by spiffav8 View Post
i think it's important to note that ron sutton race technologies has also been removed from other websites. This isn't just a lateral-g thing.

Wow!!
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  #627  
Old 08-14-2018, 01:33 PM
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I have so many thoughts and questions on how and why this happens. I have dealt with Ron on my JRI SHOCKS purchase. I had a major issue that he could of told me I'm **** out of luck but he made good on it. I know this isn't Greg's $200,000 build . I think these guys get out of there lane and this is what the end result is . Stick to WTF you know . I use this board for a lot of info and I do ask people who they would or wouldn't use . Charley Lillard saved me a ton of money and headaches on a certain engine builder I was going to use. He PM'd me instantly and told me to run. And I did . But not everyone is going to do that . But Charley could of had great experience with this guy and tell everyone he was great then all hell breaks loose now what, its not Charley's fault ! Guess what I trying to get at is . We can't control when these guys are going to go bad . But If Greg recommended shop XYZ and it goes wrong I would not hold it against him . I understand where Greg is coming from on this matter. He is a great guy who holds his friends in high regard . I would like to hear anyone's thoughts on this I hope I made sense .
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  #628  
Old 08-14-2018, 01:48 PM
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What blows my mind is Sutton thought the car was ready for racing. For him to think the situation was worthy of that sais a ton.

What decisions people make tells way more than that one decision.
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  #629  
Old 08-14-2018, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
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What blows my mind is Sutton thought the car was ready for racing. For him to think the situation was worthy of that sais a ton.

What decisions people make tells way more than that one decision.
Again --- I remind people -- this isn't about the CRAPwrap/body... that was just an easy bullet to put in the chamber.... There's so much more that's wrong.... and so many more people involved and on other sites as well....

My issues - with this car - were the tip of the iceberg.

We'll all get over it and move on. Buy from real suppliers - there's a ton of great ones.
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  #630  
Old 08-14-2018, 02:36 PM
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I have thought long and hard about how to respond to Greg’s situation, or even if I should. We have many RSRT parts in common, as with many others on this forum, and have all been dealing with Ron Sutton. I’ll start there.

I met him through the forum, like most, when he first started posting. He posted up some great stuff, technical advice, and theory, that eventually became sticky forums. He was very willing to offer advice and suggestions to help improve my car and others, at the time, free of charge. This Ron I really liked, said he was just giving back.

Told me around summer of 2015 he was developing front and rear suspension clips, JRI shock package, as well as a brake system from Stoptech. Sounded really good, based on everything he had told me, and all his testing he advertises on the his website, must be a killer, proven setup. I ordered and paid for everything in Fall of 2015, with delivery to be right after the new year in 2016.

This is when I started noticing the change in Ron, it was the start of him being very difficult to reach or long delays on responses (the birth of RSRT). The most irritating thing was to have a question or need an answer and be told he’s too busy and will get back with you in a few days or week, but see him answer forum questions during this time or post on FB! I’m a PAID customer, and that should take some precedent. We had a discussion where I told him that, and he explained he just had too much going on. I understand that, but if you try to be great at everything to everybody, you’ll not be very good at any of it to anybody. Scale back to what you can handle and be great at.

So without getting into the the nitty gritty details, the rear frame rails were delivered summer of 2016, and the clip, late Fall of 2016. Almost a year from the time ordered. Still no brakes, those would be mid-2017.
There were issues with the blueprints that caused lots of work to be performed and then redone to correct. This eats up valuable time, and this is what is most irritating about the delays in response. Greg touched on this a bit, and he “gets it”. I am just a regular guy with a job. I have to plan and block time to work on my car. I don’t get to block a lot of consecutive days, but on the few occasions I have, I’ve run into blueprint issues that took days to resolve because Ron was too busy to respond. This kills my allotted time and is demoralizing to me as I build this. It just kills my motivation when i have to remove or move something that was incorrect in a print.
I’ve had issues with delayed parts, wrong parts, wrong prints, and wrong dimensions supplied to my wheel maker, but suffered through with the impression I am building a bad ass suspension car. I still believe that, because if I don’t, then all this was for nothing, and that I’m not willing to accept given the time and money I have invested in this.

We all wanted to post our issues, but none of us were done with our cars. We would need setup advice and dimensions; to post would mean a clean death as we are nobody’s and Ron was the forum “superstar”. This could have only been done by someone with clout, that’s you Greg.

Now that it is done I have mixed feelings. Where do we go from here? I hope Ron continues to support and help his customers utilizing his suspension systems (me included). I hope that all of us with builds become a priority customer. I hope he realizes what I stated earlier, "Scale back to what you can handle and be great at”. I personally have just been very frustrated and disappointed with the parts and service I paid for. That cannot be undone from this point back, but can be a different and positive experience from this point forward. Only he can make that happen and I believe it will be the defining moment for Ron Sutton, RSRT, his customers, and the future of all involved.
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