|
11-19-2019, 06:44 PM
|
|
Lateral-g Supporting Member
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 241
Thanks: 3
Thanked 113 Times in 75 Posts
|
|
I'm a freakin idiot.....a happy one though
I've been fiddling with the carb the last few weeks and felt I was making progress, but still not all the way there. I took the car for a spin on Sunday and the engine still had a significant vibration that would come in at 1500 rpms through 3500 rpms, go away until 4500 rpms, then return. Parked the car...f&ck!!!!!
I was messing around shooting the headers with an infrared thermo this evening and noticed the #8 cylinder was about 100 degrees cooler than the others. Inspected the #8 plug wire, looked brand new as it should. Then I decided to check the firing order for ****s and giggles...since I've done so over 2 dozen times.
That's when I found the GREATEST STUPID MISTAKE I've made with this build.....I had the #6 and #8 spark plug wires flipped!!!! :p
Flipped them back the way they should be, fired it up and it's so smooth through the rpms now. HUGE difference.
Time to put some miles on it.
Daniel
|
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to DWC For This Useful Post:
|
|
12-06-2019, 07:50 AM
|
|
Lateral-g Supporting Member
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 241
Thanks: 3
Thanked 113 Times in 75 Posts
|
|
Driveline vibration fun
Once I got the engine vibration sorted from my bonehead mistake, I put some miles on the car and noticed a significant driveline vibration. Up to this point, the driveline angles were just eye-balled as everything was installed. So, after a lot of reading about angles and adjustments, I started taking measurements and making adjustments.
I found a great driveline angle app from Tremec. Here is what I started with:
My engine/trans angle was pretty much set due to interference with my headers and the firewall/floorpan and interference with the clutch arm and trans tunnel. I did raise the rear ride height slightly to help with angles and to prevent tire rub on the passenger inner wheel well. So, the Ridetech 4-link was where I focused my adjustment. After about a dozen adjustments and measurements, I ended up with:
It's obviously not perfect, but after a quick test drive last night it is MUCH better.
Daniel
|
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to DWC For This Useful Post:
|
|
12-06-2019, 09:52 AM
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Central Missouri
Posts: 269
Thanks: 253
Thanked 129 Times in 76 Posts
|
|
Hey DWC..,
I love your honesty.
I think the way you diagnose and post on this forum helps us all.
If I don’t screw up twice a day, I ain’t living.
This is my way of saying thanks for this useful post.
PS.
Back in 1976, I took my girlfriend to my high school prom in a 68 camaro with a 230ci straight six.
To make a lumpy idle to simulate a cam, I drove to the prom with two plug wires crossed DELIBERATELY.
Ran like crap but sounded like a funny car!
Lol
|
12-06-2019, 12:34 PM
|
|
Lateral-g Supporting Member
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 241
Thanks: 3
Thanked 113 Times in 75 Posts
|
|
I appreciate the comment. I figure nobody knows everything and we all have to start somewhere. It seems I'm always scouring the internet and forums trying to find the answer to some obscure question or issue I'm having. Without forums such as this I would REALLY struggle to make ground and the learning curve would be tremendously steeper.
This build thread not only allows me to document my build, for my own sake, but may hopefully provide a bit of insight for someone else down the road.
Daniel
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DWC For This Useful Post:
|
|
12-07-2019, 08:43 AM
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Apple Valley, Minnesota
Posts: 64
Thanks: 5
Thanked 31 Times in 13 Posts
|
|
One of the best things about this forum is the lack of criticism for honest mistakes. You can post your victories and everyone supports you, if you step on your hoo-hoo and everyone still supports you!
__________________
....
|
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Barnburner For This Useful Post:
|
|
12-08-2019, 07:45 PM
|
Lateral-g Supporting Member
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Dunwoody, GA
Posts: 6,299
Thanks: 669
Thanked 582 Times in 472 Posts
|
|
That's because we try to make it more of a community instead of a hive mind one up fest like so many other forums turn into. We all have our visions and we'll all need help getting there. It's why I came here from other places. Those other places certainly have valuable information available, too, but this place feels better.
Good work on the car, DWC. I feel your pain with the vibrations. I still have not figured mine out. I swear I have the angles dialed in, but I need to check again with a drive on lift preferably. Keep at it with a methodical approach and you'll get it. Don't forget to keep the working angle of each joint below 3*, as well. I completely missed that in my efforts to make my angles equal and opposite.
__________________
Trey
Current rides: 2000 BMW 540i/6 and 86 C10.
Former ride: 1979 Trans Am WS6: LT1/T56, Kore 3 C5/6 brakes, BMW 18in rims
|
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to WSSix For This Useful Post:
|
|
02-05-2020, 11:35 AM
|
|
Lateral-g Supporting Member
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 241
Thanks: 3
Thanked 113 Times in 75 Posts
|
|
I've been putting some miles on the car. Not as many as I'd like though.
My son and I went to the local Cars and Coffee the other week, which is always fun. (I robbed some photos off the C&C Facebook page)
I still have a driveline vibration that's bugging me. The front and rear driveline operating angles are both exactly 2.9* and the overall operating angle is .02*. Even after I was able to get these angles, I still have a vibration at around 2000 rpms, then it goes away until about 4500 rpms. Above 4500 rpms, it's a fairly significant vibration. The engine revs smooth though, in neutral, to the limiter so I'm confident it's not the source.
I took my driveshaft and had the balance checked yesterday- all good. It has new Spicer U-joints. I have sufficient yoke engagement on the trans output shaft. I spoke with Ridetech this morning to see if they had any suggestions and he said with my pinion angles and a good driveshaft, he wasn't sure of where to go next.
Someone mentioned driveline compound angles, which is one thing I haven't checked. The Tremec app measures the angles on a horizontal plane, but I haven't checked them on a vertical plane. At a glance, it "looks" pretty straight. Anyone have any tips on checking compound driveline angles?
Also, I've grabbed the driveshaft right in front of the rear pinion and tried to shake it and there's very little/if any play. I was told when I bought it that the pinion and axle bearings had been replaced. But, I have noticed a very slight pinion seal leak because the bottom of the length of the rear end pumpkin is slightly damp with fluid.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Daniel
Last edited by DWC; 02-06-2020 at 12:22 PM.
Reason: Clarity
|
The Following User Says Thank You to DWC For This Useful Post:
|
|
02-05-2020, 04:35 PM
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 624
Thanks: 68
Thanked 166 Times in 123 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWC
I've been putting some miles on the car. Not as many as I'd like though.
My son and I went to the local Cars and Coffee the other week, which is always fun. (I robbed some photos off the C&C Facebook page)
I still have a driveline vibration that's bugging me. The front and rear driveline operating angles are both exactly 2.9* and the overall operating angle is .02*. Even after I was able to get these angles, I still have a vibration at around 2000 rpms, then it goes away until about 4500 rpms. Above 4500 rpms, it's a fairly significant vibration. The engine revs smooth though, in neutral, to the limiter so I'm confident it's not the source.
I took my driveshaft and had the balance checked yesterday- all good. It has new Spicer U-joints. I have sufficient yoke engagement on the trans output shaft. I spoke with Ridetech this morning to see if they had any suggestions and he said with my pinion angles and a good driveshaft, he wasn't sure of where to go next.
Above, Jack mentioned driveline compound angles, which is one thing I haven't checked. The Tremec app measures the angles on a horizontal plane, but I haven't checked them on a vertical plane. At a glance, it "looks" pretty straight. Anyone have any tips on checking compound driveline angles?
Also, I've grabbed the driveshaft right in front of the rear pinion and tried to shake it and there's very little/if any play. I was told when I bought it that the pinion and axle bearings had been replaced. But, I have noticed a very slight pinion seal leak because the bottom of the length of the rear end pumpkin is slightly damp with fluid.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Daniel
|
The driveline angle thing gets compounded when the cars get lowered. Standard driveline angles are calc'd & figured w/everything 'sloping' front to rear (motor higher than trans output; trans output higher the rear pinion). The closer these get or in the extreme cases where the pinion is higher than the trans output, a diff approach is required.
I know this from the custom truck scene. Extreme lowered trucks are faced w/this scenario constantly. Many (most?) ignore it or don't drive them enough to be concerned. My plan on my trucks was to use a single driveshaft vs the more common 2pc shafts; dial in angles as good as possible, & then if that didn't work swap in a double cardan style u-joint/CV joint that cancels vibrations within itself. By using the Dbl cardan style joint, you need to dial in the angles close to zero & let the joint do the work.
Check out Andrewb70's stuff. I don't recall where I saw/read the info but I believe when he did the 'rebuild' of his GTO (the L92 swap period) he really focused on solving the vibration issue. He wound up sourcing a driveshaft/joint combo that while expensive.... got the job done. Since I had already been researching options, his info was REALLY good to read as he was using the same approach I have as far as the whole process of elimination.
Hope this info helps.
|
The Following User Says Thank You to ScotI For This Useful Post:
|
|
02-05-2020, 08:44 PM
|
Lateral-g Supporting Member
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Dunwoody, GA
Posts: 6,299
Thanks: 669
Thanked 582 Times in 472 Posts
|
|
Yep, Andrew put a CV joint on the front of the driveshaft. I believe he got it from Driveshaft Shop. I was thinking I needed to go that way as well since my diff is inline if not above my transmission. I'm in the middle of checking something else right now before I go down the path to using one of those driveshafts.
I can't help with your issues. I know it's frustrating as hell. I wish you the best in figuring it out. The car looks great.
__________________
Trey
Current rides: 2000 BMW 540i/6 and 86 C10.
Former ride: 1979 Trans Am WS6: LT1/T56, Kore 3 C5/6 brakes, BMW 18in rims
|
The Following User Says Thank You to WSSix For This Useful Post:
|
|
02-05-2020, 11:11 PM
|
|
Lateral-g Moderator
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 4,716
Thanks: 548
Thanked 444 Times in 209 Posts
|
|
Daniel the car looks wicked!! Stoked to see you out driving it and having some fun. The shake down process just just part of the journey.
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:40 PM.
|