Rendering of Stuart's Alumin8r!! - Page 3 - Lateral-g Forums

Musclerodz · #21 12-10-2004, 04:00 PM

That would be awesome to look at! I would probably drool at it all day. When are we going to get Kris to make a calender.

Mike

**XcYZ** · #22 12-10-2004, 04:42 PM

Tim, the posters shipped this week, I should have them early next week. I'll drop you an e-mail when they show up so you can get one coming.

As for calendars, there might be a Lateral-g calendar coming out. We have plenty of members with renderings, so I might just go ahead and roll with it. I'll keep you guys posted.

Kris Horton · #23 12-10-2004, 07:26 PM

For the calenders and the montage posters, I'd like it to be something that I sell. I would like to make a bit of money on the side by selling these for a small profit. I believe that I still retain some rights to the images as the creator and think that it'd be fair to benefit from that than just gaining more customers. I haven't seen a penny from all of the posters that are floating around, which has been fine, but if a calender is made using a collection of my work, I don't see why I shouldn't profit from that. I hope this doesn't hit a nerve with anyone here, it's just a matter of trying to market myself better. I'm open to suggestions though!

Kris

**XcYZ** · #24 12-10-2004, 07:42 PM

Well Kris, I haven't made a penny on these posters either. I've been selling them for what they cost me to print and ship (actually, I've lost a little bit if you want to get picky). I didn't even try to earn back the $350 fee for the original artwork, I considered that just part of the cost of promoting Lateral-g.

I guess I'm confused. So each of us that contracted you to do custom artwork has no right to the artwork? Every single poster that I have ever had printed, every image that you have done has your name and website on it. I've always done everything I could to help promote you and your work and given countless referrals.

**camcojb** · #25 12-10-2004, 08:25 PM

I am also confused. I've lost over $70 by selling my posters; one stolen in the mail tube, one damaged (both had to be replaced), plus I was matching Scotts price to avoid confusion even when I had tax on each as the printer is in my state. So there was no money being made here.

If you want to share in the profits then you should share in the costs too. I'll send you a bill for your share

When I paid you to do the rendering there was no mention that you owned the rights to these forever and we had no right to reproduce them in any way. If that was the case you should not have given us a poster resolution sized image. You knew what we were doing with them. For that matter, since it's my car in that rendition do I not have the right in how the picture is used?

You make your money by charging us to do these. You certainly don't give them away and it seems like you're always busy and should be making plenty of money on the side with them. If you want to retain control of the pictures then you need to pay us in my opinion.

Jody

Kris Horton · #26 12-10-2004, 08:29 PM

Scott,

It's not a matter of me thinking that you're profiting from my work. I just think that it'd be fair to sell prints of my work as I have the copyright on each image I do. I haven't had any problems with a person who had me do a poster rendering of their car going and reproducing it and giving it out at their expense. What I would probably have a problem with is a product with a number of my images being produced and distributed. I think there is a difference. There are many artists out there that sell prints of their work to help bring in some money.

I really don't mean to argue, but I just wanted to speak up before something was done without my consent. I have been really lenient so far about giving out my images. I could just make prints of each project I do and give it to the customer, but I give them renderings in digital format because it is easier for me and them and they have more use. I would be charging a lot more if it was a matter of exclusive use or used for advertising.

I spoke with Tyler about something similar and he mentioned when he contracted the artist to design his body kit, he paid extra for exclusive use. All I have ever charged anyone for was the time that it takes me to do the renderings. They are extremely time consuming, which is okay with me, but once the images are finished, it's done and I make no more money off of the images themselves. I don't think that I'm out of line in my thinking after seeing how many posters there are out there of my work.

I'm really not trying to sound ungrateful. Lateral-G and Pro-Touring.com have both been great for getting my name out there and my work recognized and I truly appreciate it. I also appreciate all of the footwork that you do to get the posters printed. I'm just not cool with having another popular product that is completely compiled of work that I did being made without it benefitting me with anything other than visibility. I'm not in this business just to make money, it's also something I truly love doing, but at the same time I'm still trying to cover my own ass.

Kris

**camcojb** · #27 12-10-2004, 08:34 PM

Kris,

If that's your belief, then you need to tell people up front that you own the rights to that image of their car. Then you need to get a legal document drafted up that both parties sign to protect yourself.

I think this will really slow down your work load, but I may be wrong. I would not have paid $350. for you to do MY car and then give up any rights for that picture I paid so much for. But at least if you tell people up front how you want it handled and get a signed contract there will be no misunderstandings. I'm sorry there is one now, but I do believe you're wrong on this.

If you believe you need to be getting a cut of any sales, then you must also believe we should to. If you make a calendar with my car in it I should expect a share of the profits, right? I paid you to do that picture, and it's my car.

Jody

Kris Horton · #28 12-10-2004, 08:36 PM

Jody,

I'm not trying to put a limit or price on the individuals' posters. You paid to have those done and I've already said it's not an issue.

I was stating that if we were going to make something like a calender, that I think it would be something that I'd like to have some control over. Perhaps it was just the fact that it was being billed as a "Lateral-G" calender. I just want to make sure I don't get stepped on.

If you want to criticize my pricing though, I still maintain my prices are low for the amount of work I do. If you add up the hours that I spend on one car, I'm probably making less than minimum wage. I have never once complained about that though because as I mentioned, I enjoy what I do.

I have been told on many occasions to market myself better, but the second I try, I am criticized and guilted out of it.

Kris

**XcYZ** · #29 12-10-2004, 08:39 PM

Kris, we both know there's no negatives between us, in fact, I think we're good friends. I think where we crossed wires was when I mentioned doing the calendar. I'll back off that idea - and that's all it was, just an idea. However, I do believe that I should be able to do what I want with the rendering of my car. From day one, it's always been about posters that I could use to promote both my project and the website. I have some serious legwork invested in getting a custom poster printer lined up that is willing to do small runs at a reasonable price.

I see where you're coming from, and I hope you can see where I'm coming from. Perhaps you should have some sort of legal contract written up so it's clear what's allowed and what's not allowed before money changes hands.

Kris Horton · #30 12-10-2004, 09:04 PM

Scott,

I couldn't agree more. I don't feel that there's any bad blood at all and that this site has done a great deal of good for me.

I was really afraid that by wanting to sell the calender for a profit, I would be seen as some ungrateful prick that decided to milk his product after the fact. But honestly, I think it's a good way to market my work. I'm not saying that the person who hired me to do the work should have less rights to it, but rather that I should still retain some rights to it as well.

It's not that at all. I just think that a calender is a separate entity from the posters and the work I have done for my customers. I would not be opposed to splitting whatever profit this would make with the you to fund the site. I have proposed that to Larry on PT.com as well. I would just like to make a bit extra on the side.

Instead of raising my prices too high, I have kept them reasonable and not too high for the average guy building a car. I would rather have a lot of projects going on at once for less pay than just the occasional high-paying project. I do this because I enjoy people getting something out of my work.

I could easily say that I'll raise my prices up to where I'm making $25+ an hour and then just take a cut in the amount of customers, but I can't justify that because I would be losing sight of what got me here. What I am trying to do is market myself to where I am making a bit extra money on the side to cover what I am not making by keeping my prices pretty low. I think a calender would be a good way to do it and if the interest is there, I really have no problem making it a Lateral-G/Cars by Kris calender and splitting the profit with Scott. Posters are plentiful, but I think a calender would probably be a bit more popular. What does everyone here think?

All that said, I think it's time for me to get a bit more technical with my work as far as rights, etc. but so far, everyone has been understanding and respectful of me and my work, and I really hope that will continue.

Kris