Floater setup--yes or no

[DFRESH]

I am getting close to the next mod on the car which is putting the Fab 9 housing under the car (Moser 3rd member--thanks John Parsons) and finally have what is called a positive traction device---evidently most of the PT cars have them. Since I am the only member of the "One Legged Jihad" team left, I feel I must give into peer pressure and adopt this two wheel driven fetish.

Anyhow, it's time to make the axle purchase and brake purchase in the next month or so. The brakes will be Baer Pro Plus with 14in rotors--this is what I have up front. So, herein lies my ask to you all---I will be running power brakes--DSE's setup on the master/booster and I don't hear folks complaining about knock back with power setups. If I am not mistaking, none of the DSE cars run floaters and I am making an assumption they don't have knockback issues. Perhaps this is a bandaid and knockback does actually exist, but isn't noticed due to the extra pressue on the calipers thanks to the power assist. I will spend the 2 to 3k on the floater if I must, but don't want to waste the time, money and effort if it's really not necessary. Maybe DSE changes their axle bearings every 3 months to prevent seal leaks, wear, flex, etc. I use my car at the track--it doesn't have sticky tires under it currently (320 treadwear) and it's not mini tubbed yet---having said that, it will at some point be minitubbed and run 200 treadwears--so if doing it right is the floater, then i'm in. Lay it out for me based upon your experience--

Doug

[Vegas69]

Never assume anything in this hobby. Put a floating caliper on it and retire early. Haha

[Musclerodz]

DSE is currently retro fitting Kyle's Camaro with the new Baer floater. All power brakes do is mask the problem. If your serious about track events, do it. Also I know since your plan on using baer brakes, their floater requires is own end to be welded on so hopefully you don't already have a "done" housing.

I will have 2 baer floater set ups shipping to me this week hopefully and one is extra.

[Bryce]

Lets disect the issues that a full floater can solve.

Brake knock back, this can also be solved with a floating caliper.

Excessive bearing wear or failure, a wheel with a centerline that line up with the centerline of the bearing can greatly reduce the moment load on the bearing, increasing life.

If you brake an axle your wheel will stay attached to the axle housing. I doubt any of us will brake a good alloy axle with 200 treadware tire, even with 1000hp and drag racing. You will just not have the traction to hook up the 7000ft-lbs of torque required to break a moser 31 spline axle.

[Payton King]

First, glad your wife is on her way to recovery.

Dse changes the bearings and seals often. They drive hard and are at the shows to feature their merchandise. A failure is not an option. When they rebuilt the 69 for Optima they put the Baer floater set-up on the car...so they were running it in the 69 at Optima this year. Not sure about the 2nd gen.

The fluid volume helps hide the knock back with the fixed caliper brakes. If you do not mind the booster, I would run power brakes.

When I changed rear suspension in my car last year I went with the Moser floater. The DB unit (dual bolt pattern) It is 5x4.75 with 1/2 studs. The center register is 3.06 (which is a ford) I had them turn it down to 2.78 (Chevy) After getting the floater, I doubt that I would ever run anything different in a PT/track car if I owned it. The strength of the design and bearing spread make for a very safe and serviceable unit. It takes me longer to jack up the car, place it on jack stands and remove the wheels than it does for me to pull the axles and remove the hubs.

In my opinion there is no comparison to a standard 9 with the tapered or sealed bearing and the floater. But...and there is alway a but, the parking brake is an issue and how much lip you want on your wheels. I wanted to run a C6Z06 wheel offset, so I had plenty of room to package a custom parking brake. If you want 5 inches of lip on your wheel, it is going to be tough to do with a standard floater. The new one that is being developed that runs a C6 bearing pack and parking brake would solve all of that.

Doug, not sure if you still have my cell but give me a call 704-564-8577 and I can answer any questions you have. I have researched every floater set-up out there and can give you a ball park in cost and pros and cons of each one.

Here is what I did for a parking brake. Took my existing Wilwood hat with the intergal parking brake, machined out the center and attached it to a rotor adapter. Then machined out a bracket that is like a 9 inch flange and attached it to the floater to mount the ebrake/caliper mount.

[Cris@JCG]

Doug- I have different opinion on both set ups... call me to discuss if you like.. or you can come out our way on the last week on January when we take out Blu Balz out to the Camarillo airport for a full day of abuse to shake the car out.. Suspension tuning & brake testing.. I will rent out the airport for a day for this testing.. Your welcome to bring out the 69.. It is looking like Jan 28th.. Week days are cheaper.. CHP will be out setting up cones & a course.. I hear the Ventura County CHP instructor is a great driver & instructor.. Hopefully the Pozzi's will be able to make it out also..

I do agree with Todd.. a floating caliper will keep problems down to a minimum.. Plus expense.. Floater rears require maintance but the best solution..

[TheJDMan]

Doug,
I don't know where you get 2k to 3k number. You can buy a complete Moser 9" floater you specify the width for $879.

http://www.moserengineering.com/circ...floater-9.html

Just FYI, Once you have the 9" housing you can buy surplus center sections in virtually any ratio from any of the top NASCAR teams. I just purchased a refurbished center section with locker and polished ring & pinion gears from Roush/Yates for $850. Hendrick Motorsports also has a Performance Parts Div. which sells all manor of surplus parts.

[Blake Foster]

Speedtech is in the final stages of putting together a floater that is totally different than the rest. It will be based on the ZR1 35 Spline rear hubs and will fit any standard Corvette brake package including Baer Brakes. you also get the factory wheel speed sensor that in the near future will be able to be used for traction control as well as ABS. you will need to upgrade to ZR1 front hubs also as they ZR1 and Z06 have different wheel speed sensors in them.

[Vegas69]

Nobody had a fix for a fixed caliper, now the market is flooded with options. Somebody start beating up their set up so we know which choice is the RIGHT one.

[TheJDMan]

Floating hubs have been widely used in circle track racing for over 25 years and as a result the designs are proven, inexpensive, readily available and for the most part interchangeable between manufacturers. But floaters seem to be an emerging feature in PT builds and as such those of us who have gone that direction with conventional floaters have been forced to fabircate some brake parts in order to use 13" and 14" rotors. But there are just a couple of parts that if someone would start producing would allow the use of any conventional floater setup with big brakes. These items are 1. a rotor adaptor with a 12 on 8.750 bolt circle and 2. caliper brackets with a clamp on mount which could be tack welded to the housing once properly positioned.

The thing I have noticed in the PT community is that rather than using a conventional floater from established manufacturers which are reasonably priced then supplying the parts to mount big brakes, PT manufactures are re-inventing the wheel so to speak with unconventional non-standard floating setups which are different but not necessarily stronger designs and then charging nearly twice or more the price. I have a hard time swallowing these reinvented floaters selling for two or three times more, when you can buy a complete 9" floater from Moser for $879 in any width. I get the sense that these PT manufactures are trying to tap into an emering PT floater market and trying to get maximum profits and in process taking advantage of the PT community.

I know I talk up circle track floaters ad nausium, but I am simply trying to spread the word to the PT community that you can run 9" floaters from a slew of existing circle track manufacturers for very reasonable prices.