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  #911  
Old 06-25-2019, 10:25 PM
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So our friend and fellow board member Andrew spent about 2 hours today dialed into my laptop hooked to the car from his house and really got the idle tune dialed in perfect. It was fun to watch and learn...and see the results from the changes in real time. I'm not sure if it's the cam, the worked over Fastburn heads, or just the whole complete package...but this combo really seems like a great match for the ECU and throttle body. It seemed pretty simple for Andrew to dial it in initially.

We did kind of struggle to get the idle down (which I always fought with the Q-jet as well). Even with throttle blades completely closed and IAC at 0, it still idled around 800 rpm. We even capped off the 3 vacuum lines I had hooked to TBI to see if there was a leak on one of them with little effect. I finally put a wrench on the 4 bolts holding it to manifold and tightened them 1/8-1/4 turn each and that bumped the IAC up to about 4. Backing the idle timing down to 12 degrees and a few other small changes got it to idle about 760 or so with IAC around 4 and we left it there. I need to get the air cleaner back on to see how that affects it if any. The heater hose valve was in the way of it and it was too freaking hot to mess with today.

Speaking of heat, it idled in a 100 degree garage for over an hour and never got over 190 degrees. The low and high speed fans work perfectly exactly how they are programmed in the ECU. No leaks, runs, drips or errors that I can see either.

Time to get the wheels back on, gas tank bolted in, fenders back on and tidy up the loose ends so I can test drive it on the street. I think Andrew was disappointed when we were done with idle tune and he asked me if it was ready to drive on the street.
You gotta watch out for that Andrew guy...
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  #912  
Old 06-26-2019, 09:03 AM
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You gotta watch out for that Andrew guy...
So I'm explaining to the wife what was going on in the garage yesterday.

"Yes honey, a guy I've never met in person before is linked into my laptop over the internet and is making tuning adjustments on the computer in my car while talking to me over the phone..."

Her: "Why is he doing that?" "And why are you letting him do that?"

"It's just a guy thing honey..."

Much like a couple weekends ago when 25 some guys that have BS'd together on the internet for years finally meet face to face...it's like we've all known each other for years and it doesn't seem at all like we've just met for the first time.

Let's hope in a couple hours this thing rolls out of the shop under it's own power for the first time in almost 2 months. It's 7 am here and I've already had my morning walk, breakfast, am dressed and in the shop ready to turn wrenches...
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  #913  
Old 06-26-2019, 10:38 AM
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Lance,
Great to hear you are getting things dial in
It was also good to finally meet you and talk

You crack me up with getting the idle down to 760
My buddy's Pantera and mine have the idle set at 1300 rpm
and we spin them to 7500 rpm and still bounce the limiter sometimes
Love those 830 Nascar Holleys

Bob
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  #914  
Old 06-26-2019, 05:19 PM
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Holey Cow! So by noon or so I had the car all back in one piece, that pretty much went as planned. I then drove it up and put some fuel in it and made about a 2 mile circle around on city streets to get back home again. Right away driveability was good. Ever now and then it would stumble a bit but never really misfire or anything like that and I could tell it was getting better all the time. Once back I sent the Global Configuration file with the learn tables in it to Andrew and about 10 minutes later he sent me an adjusted file back. I uploaded...then went for a drive again. This time he wanted me to make a couple WOT blasts from 2000 - 6000 RPM which I did.

Also grabbed a couple video clips with my phone during this run.



Keep in mind, ambient temp is about 105 and the Manifold air temp was close to 130... On way back I rolled the windows up and turned the air on. Car's behavior didn't change one bit, still rock solid. Fans kicked on when they were supposed to and coolant temp stayed right where it is supposed too, even idling at a stoplight at 750 RPM with AC on max. THIS is what I wanted and why I did this swap.

Once back I sent the file to Andrew again and told him a few things I noticed it doing. 10 minutes later, new tune uploaded and quick jaunt just around the house close by but did get a couple of spirited WOT blasts in and man...did he wake it up!! It's back to as good as it EVER was at WOT with the Q jet (possibly better) and with non-of the side effects. I ran short on time and had to quit but I sent the file to Andrew one more time, he made a few more slight tweaks and sent it back for my next go around.

I can't wait to see how it is now.

Parked it in the garage raised the hood, went out there after my shower and no fuel smell either...another reason why I did this swap!!

Here is how it looks now...not much different really. But trust me...it's WAY different now.

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  #915  
Old 06-27-2019, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by SSLance View Post
So our friend and fellow board member Andrew spent about 2 hours today dialed into my laptop hooked to the car from his house and really got the idle tune dialed in perfect. It was fun to watch and learn...and see the results from the changes in real time. I'm not sure if it's the cam, the worked over Fastburn heads, or just the whole complete package...but this combo really seems like a great match for the ECU and throttle body. It seemed pretty simple for Andrew to dial it in initially.

We did kind of struggle to get the idle down (which I always fought with the Q-jet as well). Even with throttle blades completely closed and IAC at 0, it still idled around 800 rpm. We even capped off the 3 vacuum lines I had hooked to TBI to see if there was a leak on one of them with little effect. I finally put a wrench on the 4 bolts holding it to manifold and tightened them 1/8-1/4 turn each and that bumped the IAC up to about 4. Backing the idle timing down to 12 degrees and a few other small changes got it to idle about 760 or so with IAC around 4 and we left it there. I need to get the air cleaner back on to see how that affects it if any. The heater hose valve was in the way of it and it was too freaking hot to mess with today.

Speaking of heat, it idled in a 100 degree garage for over an hour and never got over 190 degrees. The low and high speed fans work perfectly exactly how they are programmed in the ECU. No leaks, runs, drips or errors that I can see either. Holey Cow! So by noon or so I had the car all back in one piece, that pretty much went as planned. I then drove it up and put some fuel in it and made about a 2 mile circle around on city streets to get back home again. Right away driveability was good. Ever now and then it would stumble a bit but never really misfire or anything like that and I could tell it was getting better all the time. Once back I sent the Global Configuration file with the learn tables in it to Andrew and about 10 minutes later he sent me an adjusted file back. I uploaded...then went for a drive again. This time he wanted me to make a couple WOT blasts from 2000 - 6000 RPM which I did.

Keep in mind, ambient temp is about 105 and the Manifold air temp was close to 130... On way back I rolled the windows up and turned the air on. Car's behavior didn't change one bit, still rock solid. Fans kicked on when they were supposed to and coolant temp stayed right where it is supposed too, even idling at a stoplight at 750 RPM with AC on max. THIS is what I wanted and why I did this swap.

Once back I sent the file to Andrew again and told him a few things I noticed it doing. 10 minutes later, new tune uploaded and quick jaunt just around the house close by but did get a couple of spirited WOT blasts in and man...did he wake it up!! It's back to as good as it EVER was at WOT with the Q jet (possibly better) and with non-of the side effects. I ran short on time and had to quit but I sent the file to Andrew one more time, he made a few more slight tweaks and sent it back for my next go around.

I can't wait to see how it is now.

Parked it in the garage raised the hood, went out there after my shower and no fuel smell either...another reason why I did this swap!!

Here is how it looks now...not much different really. But trust me...it's WAY different now.
I've been following this w/much interest & glad to review the latest successful results.

That being said, with Andrew assisting, is this only to speed up the learning curve? Or should this be a 'Must-Do' step w/the process? I know these systems are advertised as "Self Leaning" but we know that's a main/strong selling point to the DIY guy. While this type & similar set-ups can/do self learn, do they need a tuners ability to get things near/at optimum if you want it sooner rather than later?

And maybe Andrew (or someone else that has similar experience) can answer this....If you opt for no tuner & let the units ECU do it's thing, how long before it could/would reach the same tune?
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  #916  
Old 06-27-2019, 12:50 PM
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I've been following this w/much interest & glad to review the latest successful results.

That being said, with Andrew assisting, is this only to speed up the learning curve? Or should this be a 'Must-Do' step w/the process? I know these systems are advertised as "Self Leaning" but we know that's a main/strong selling point to the DIY guy. While this type & similar set-ups can/do self learn, do they need a tuners ability to get things near/at optimum if you want it sooner rather than later?

And maybe Andrew (or someone else that has similar experience) can answer this....If you opt for no tuner & let the units ECU do it's thing, how long before it could/would reach the same tune?
With my limited experience with this (like a few days worth) I believe this is a pretty accurate description of how the self learn process works.

So when you put your initial inputs in (size of engine, #@ cylinders, cam specs etc) the software picks a predetermined tune and puts it on ECU for you. This tune gives targeted ignition timing, AFRs, etc for a wide range of parameters and tells the ECU to shoot for this. You then go drive the car and the self learn portion corrects over those parameters and the percentages that the ECU has to use to correct each parameter are saved in the learn tables. Eventually the learn table is full (each scenario has been reached and corrected for) and you can either choose to let the software transfer the learn tables to the tune or a tuner can do that manually.

Then if you are happy you can disable the learn function and leave it like it is as a permanent tune or let it continue to learn and populate the learn tables with the corrections that it makes.

What tuners do is take the GCF and look at the learn tables and make corrections to the tune based off what they see. It's a much faster and more accurate way to dial the tune into what that particular engine wants and needs.

Andrew spent about an hour logged into my laptop, working with the Holley EFI software while my car was idling here in the shop to dial in the idle tune. He could tell just by watching the sensors what the engine wanted and made the changes in real time then watched again. This is the first step, getting the idle tune right...and also the hardest.

Once the idle tune was spot on, I drove it around...and sent him the GCF. He fiddled with it and sent it back and I uploaded the changed file and drove it again. Rinse and repeat. Each time it got better and better. It's just a much faster more accurate way to get the tune dialed in than the self learn process.

BTW, this is why I went with the terminator and not the Sniper...for easy use of the Holley EFI software to dial the tune in.

The software is FAST, it loads right away on my old laptop with zero issues and the GCFs are like 80 kbs big...so they are super quick and easy to save and email. That whole process is super quick.

Hope that helps...
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  #917  
Old 06-27-2019, 03:20 PM
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This video will bore some of you, but others may find it of interest. I made a quick jaunt around the block starting with a cold start, some open loop stop n go, then some closed loop, spirited stop n go driving finishing with a look at the Holley EFI gauges on my laptop in the passenger seat.

As you'll see it is driving VERY nicely. The one thing we are still working on a bit is a shudder when lugging between 1500-2000 RPM. It actually got better halfway thru this drive which tells me Andrew will be able to see how the ECU corrected for it and fix it permanently. The rest is spot on I think...we'll see what he says though.



Also, this is the first time it ever took that long to start cold...I think I didn't let the fuel pump prime long enough before trying to start. Still WAY better than a pump and cranking the Q Jet took.
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  #918  
Old 06-27-2019, 03:38 PM
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With my limited experience with this (like a few days worth) I believe this is a pretty accurate description of how the self learn process works.

So when you put your initial inputs in (size of engine, #@ cylinders, cam specs etc) the software picks a predetermined tune and puts it on ECU for you. This tune gives targeted ignition timing, AFRs, etc for a wide range of parameters and tells the ECU to shoot for this. You then go drive the car and the self learn portion corrects over those parameters and the percentages that the ECU has to use to correct each parameter are saved in the learn tables. Eventually the learn table is full (each scenario has been reached and corrected for) and you can either choose to let the software transfer the learn tables to the tune or a tuner can do that manually.

Then if you are happy you can disable the learn function and leave it like it is as a permanent tune or let it continue to learn and populate the learn tables with the corrections that it makes.

What tuners do is take the GCF and look at the learn tables and make corrections to the tune based off what they see. It's a much faster and more accurate way to dial the tune into what that particular engine wants and needs.

Andrew spent about an hour logged into my laptop, working with the Holley EFI software while my car was idling here in the shop to dial in the idle tune. He could tell just by watching the sensors what the engine wanted and made the changes in real time then watched again. This is the first step, getting the idle tune right...and also the hardest.

Once the idle tune was spot on, I drove it around...and sent him the GCF. He fiddled with it and sent it back and I uploaded the changed file and drove it again. Rinse and repeat. Each time it got better and better. It's just a much faster more accurate way to get the tune dialed in than the self learn process.

BTW, this is why I went with the terminator and not the Sniper...for easy use of the Holley EFI software to dial the tune in.

The software is FAST, it loads right away on my old laptop with zero issues and the GCFs are like 80 kbs big...so they are super quick and easy to save and email. That whole process is super quick.

Hope that helps...
This was my assumption so it didn't hurt to ask.

I'm torn between a Holley set-up w/the remote ECU or the EDL Pro-Flo4 as it would work w/heads I have. My gut says the Holley hardware probably has much greater after purchase technical support if one needs tuning help. That goes along way when comparing aftermarket EFI choices. But, if the self-learn/tuning actually works, The ProFlo4 has the advantage in my case because of the pkg cost & I likely wouldn't have found the help you did to speed your process.

Thanks for the assessment. looking forward to your dyno testing data & track-time impressions/comparison. Those videos help get a good feel for the initial driving experiences!

Last edited by ScotI; 06-27-2019 at 05:04 PM.
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  #919  
Old 06-27-2019, 05:38 PM
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Also..... Is that still just the HT383 crate cam installed?
Sounds like there's more cam than my L31 Vortec equipped truck.
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Old 06-27-2019, 06:02 PM
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No, we had a custom cam ground for it the same time we put the Fastburn heads on 3 years ago.

It's still pretty mild though, pulls 21" of vacuum at idle.
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