Tube chassis 63 nova

[ironworks]

We have started on a 63 Nova with a 5" ride height. We are going to put an Ls1 with a 6 speed in it with a Procharger. We will be using a Chris Alston front crossmember with a Chris Alston Billet triangulated four bar. We will be using Wilwood brake and I'm thinking 13 spoke Fikse wheels. We are looking at 245/17's, 335/18 with BFG. In this project we will be doing the Heavy fabrication and the New sheet metal work. I will also attempt to tell you how many hours are involved in each phase of the project to give an idea of the time it takes to build something like this.

In this project we are not going to fabricate everything, we want to make a high tech well fabricated car using smart parts. We have a handful of problems to over come in a small car with such a low ride height. The track width will be 51" so the tires can fully turn. The Chris Alston clip does not come with power steering so we are working to get a nice scrub radius with a 4.120 back space on a 7.5 wheel, we may run 8's but I'm not sure they will fit. We also need to keep the the flat hood, so engine height is important. Not to high, but not low. The location of the Procharger, How much of back seat we can have, these are some of the many issues to deal with.

We are budgeting 500 hrs to get a rolling chassis with rollcage. It looks like custom headers or block hugger shortie headers are a must already to improve gas pedal area. The cheap hooker swap headers are just not to friendly for space. The engine is set back into the firwall about 3". Wait until you see the rear frame rails

Current hours to this point are about 50, with 2 sticks of .120 DOM. And a Old nova floor in the scarp bin. The front suspension shows up on monday.

[awr68]

Nice outline Rodger! It will be cool seeing the time breakdown.

[deuce1963]

This looks awesome Rodger, I love following your work on John's car but I'm partial to 1st gens so this ought to be a treat. As far as 8" on the front I got this off of a Steve's post from Mike Weddle at Chassisworks when asked about the fronts on their clip:

a 17 x 8 w/ 4 3/4" bs with a 225-45-17 is an easy fit

18 x 8 could use a 40 series tire, maybe the 45.
a 235 -40 could be close, but have heard of that
going on.
__________________
Mike Weddle
Senior Sales Technician
Chris Alston's Chassisworks

Bob

[ironworks]

Thanks, Mike is my sales guy and I have been talking to him about the exact numbers. 4.75" is the max or the car gets darty. The fikse wheels come in 1/4" increments which translates to 4.125, 4.375, and 4.625. I need to see exactly how wide I can run on the front. The track width has to be much narrower because of the ride height. I believe the bolt on clips have 56-57" Track width. I had to remove the stock Ac compressor and the Camaro alternator. Good thing no power steering or Ac on this ride.

Rodger

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Looks like another great project. Can't wait to see more.

[Ricochet]

Looks like yet another nice piece to come out of your shop. Look forward to seeing this one come together.

Brent

[ironworks]

Brent I think you just need to drive down here and check out everything. I will buy lunch from the Now Lateral-g famous Champs BBQ. I think more than 10 guys from here have been there. I wish I could get sponsored by them, my belly looks like I am.
Rodger

[Ricochet]

Rodger-

I may just take you up on that offer!! Next time I roll down that way I will make it by. After seeing your stuff I'll proabbaly want to toss my junk in the corner...or spend more $$ I don't have!! :lol:

Keep up the great work!! :thumbsup:


Brent

[ironworks]

Some pics from Today. We will install the front crossmember and bend up the next section of the rear rails tommorrow.

Rodger

[jason@gmachine]

one word.

BADASS!

I like it. Jason

[Tom.A]

Very nice! Hey for us non-fab guy's is 500 Hours (3+Months of 40 HR weeks) considered budget? At $100.00 per hour for labor x 500 hrs = $50,000.00 for frame and cage (no materials included)? I am not sure what you actually charge per hour but I would think for your caliber it has to be at least $75-100 per hour. Maybe I read the thread wrong but if that is correct with smart parts the other '66 Nova your building must be twice the amount of hours :willy:
I think your doing some killer builds and fab work and look forward to seeing more progress.:hail:

[ironworks]

Thanks for the compliments. At this point of 10pm on january 2,2008 we have 97 hours in this project from the rolling chassis complete car we started with 2.5 weeks ago. Our labor rate just went to 65.00 per hour as of last august. I ordered all the rear suspension parts today and they came to a total of 3800.00. Which is Axle housing, billet triangulated 4 link, Double adjustable coilovers and brackets, 31 spline axles, and rear sway bar. The front should be about 3500.00 with brakes. When I say smart parts I mean affordable, avalible parts that we can use to make this cheaper but still good quality.

My plan with this post was just to show people how many hours it takes to build this stuff. I hope to have it on the ground by the end of the month.

[Tom.A]

I think the post is good info. It's an eye opener for me and I am sure some others how much time (labor) is spent on some of these builds. And $65 per hour seems good as I just paid $95 an hour down South from you for some very simple things. He kinda acted like he was doing me a favor :lol: Did not even get a thank you.

[customcam]

hey Rodger man love your work and thanks for sharing it with us all
So its about 20k for the chassis and about 10ish for the Sheetmetal work rite?

[ironworks]

new roll bender? what do you guys use for notching? apparently you must have something figured out to do it quick-n-easy.

We have a Baileigh tubing notcher that is ran by some skilled individuals. The notcher is not cheap and neither is the the talent.

Rodger

[ironworks]

hey Rodger man love your work and thanks for sharing it with us all
So its about 20k for the chassis and about 10ish for the Sheetmetal work rite?

It all depends on what you want. A four link is way easier then IRS, the smaller the car the more money, for obvious reasons. The lower the rideheight the more work it takes also. The sheetmetal work in Johns car has rounded corner wheels tubs with out side faces to attach to the quarter like stock, plus the floor panel fit in between bar which takes time.

The real money in these projects come in with the details, or all the small had fabbed parts, or trick one off parts. The other big chunk is proper sheetmetal work that is metal finished and nice. I love it when You do major sheetmetal work and the customer does not know where or how you did it.

Rodger

[Garage Dog 65]

Thanks for the info Rodger !

I doubt most of us know how much this stuff costs unless you've done one or are a pro builder like several on this site. (most people freak when they see what a quality paint job costs these days) Really eye opening what it takes to design and build a rocket like what the Pro's come up with.

I'll be following along !

[ironworks]

Pro? Who are you calling Pro? I believe you have to make money at something to be PRO?

Maybe Addicted or Hooked or Stuck, Something But Pro, well Someday.

Thanks for the encouraging words, Dad....

[ironworks]

Ok so some pics of the upper rails starting and the A sneak peak at one rear rail we will install tommorrow. Enjoy. You can also see the problem we are having routing the tubing to the Chris Alston crossmember. I called ATS today and I think their pan will solve this problem. The tape line on the tube is where we cut off the previous tube and the tape line on the engine is where the ATS sump on their pan gets moved back to from stock. If worse comes to worse we may slide the engine back about a 1/2 To 1" to make things fit.

2 guys working today, without looking at time cards 20 hours ish.

Rodger

[4cefed]

So when you build these round tube chassis, do you build them on the computer first and then lay them out. Or have you done this enough to just know what works?
Also, i see when you cross brace the floor section of the frame with the X's, you dont join the cross bars in the center of the other two bars joining perpendicular, you put them just before the joint. Is there a benefit to this rather than fitting the tube in the center of the joint?
Is that 1/8'' plate you weld to the rockers when you attatch the body to the frame?
If you get a chance to answer these questions i would be very greatful, thank you.

PS, im a huge fan of what you guys do and how you do it. Definately outside the box.

[ironworks]

So when you build these round tube chassis, do you build them on the computer first and then lay them out. Or have you done this enough to just know what works?
Also, i see when you cross brace the floor section of the frame with the X's, you dont join the cross bars in the center of the other two bars joining perpendicular, you put them just before the joint. Is there a benefit to this rather than fitting the tube in the center of the joint?
Is that 1/8'' plate you weld to the rockers when you attatch the body to the frame?
If you get a chance to answer these questions i would be very greatful, thank you.

PS, im a huge fan of what you guys do and how you do it. Definately outside the box.

We just cut out the floor and start with the base rails, Every car is different as far as engine location, so you deal with a lot of different lay out issues, Like the oil pan problem we are having in attaching the tubing to the slugs we put in the crossmember. We only use the computer to set up the suspension geometry and then design all the pick up points tabs in Solidworks, so we can water jet them, which will come soon.

Yes we weld 1/8" plate to the rockers at that time we also shave the pinch weld to get the car just a tick lower.

We joined the X'x next to the tube and not pointing them directly in the middle, we set it just next to the joint to put the welds almost on top of each other. It would take more time to double notch the X's. We do that on the higher end builds this way make the floor a little easier. The goal of this build is to build a solid, well bulilt chassis on a more reasonable budget. Corners have to be cut some where or all the builds would end at millions of dollars.

We got the rails set in tonight before I left and they looked awesome.

[HWY Nova]

Rodger,

Are you implying that you actually leave the shop? WOW..... I thought you lived there!

This build is really looking good!

I'll be out there in a week. I need to coordinate with John one of these days to be there at the same time.

--Eric

[ironworks]

Yeah I came home at 7pm tonight.

Rodger

[TravisB]

I thought you were using a CNC bender........dont you have one or one of your buddies has one???

[ironworks]

No CNC bender. Just digital degree Ercolina, I dont have that kinda dough. I bought an Eagle tubing roller a few months ago to roller te different radius's we want. But that thing is my no means an exact science, it take time a patience to get 2 tubes the same.

Rodger

[ironworks]

So some rear frame rail pics. They look awesome, We plan to plate them in and add lightning holes and then build the tubs before we weld the rails to the chassis. other wise you could not fit them in afterwards.

Today I also figued out that I can run my 8.5 - 9.0 front rims. We got the suspension mocked up and figured out we can fit a 2 inch wider track width. So we widened the Crossmember and will reinstall it monday along with orderng the rack to go with the front end. MAN this is a tight car to fit stuff in.

Enjoy

[dhondagod]

No CNC bender. Just digital degree Ercolina, I dont have that kinda dough. I bought an Eagle tubing roller a few months ago to roller te different radius's we want. But that thing is my no means an exact science, it take time a patience to get 2 tubes the same.

Rodger


Pic of tubing roller?


Chris:cool:

[LUCKINFOU]

That is one sweet ride love the chassis!!!

[syborg tt]

Looking really nice - I can't watch this one

[tjbruning]

nice work as usual. I think it's cool that you are posting the $$$ side of things as well.

:thumbsup:

[ironworks]

Thanks guys. I was trying to show that the chassis work in not the pricey stuff. The money is in the details and crazy options. Corvette IRS with a short ride height. I thought this car would be a cool story of the actual lay out of the build. I only plan to cover this till we get the rolling chassis done.
We should start on the rollcage this week, and get the rear axle in later this week once it shows up with axles and brackets. It is going to seem weird to not start with a bare housing.

We have another tube chassis 67 chevelle that is getting the DEELUX treatment as far as design and layout. But I'm not supposed to share pics. It is kinda nice to work in a bigger car. We plan to do some sweeping bends and X's in the frame and X's in the frame.

Thanks for the props guys, if you have any questions don't be afraid to ask, I'm trying to build a series to explain to the first timers in Full tilt hign end custom cars. When we finish a car for the guys who have never done anything like what we do, they always say they had no idea of what was possible until we were 1/2 way done. Customer education is key.

[Garage Dog 65]

What is the tube size and type ? Can you provide a price range ?

Here's the IND stuff as a cross-comparision:

1.5 x 120 EW = 2.00 foot
1.5 x 120 EW DOM = 3.40 foot
1.5 x 120 Chromemoly = 7.50 foot

Thx !

[dave96dcm]

:faint:

[67turbostang]

wow! this is going to be one mean nova when finished:hail:

[ironworks]

1.75" x .120 chromoly is 5.50 a ft
1.75" x .120 DOM is 4.15 a ft

I thought you guys would be cheaper, actually. And that is Us Chromoly also, not the foreign stuff.

Rodger

[badmatt]

not my style.... but I like it! :yes:

[ironworks]

Well we have the crossmember slugged and landed with all 4 tubes. We got the lower tubes bent to clear the pan and still be able to remove the bolt from the lower a arm. The uppers tubes are landed. I have the car mocked up with 17x9 wheels. I will decrease the BS about 2 inches on the front. The rack was ordered today to go with the crossmember we added 2 inches to. I hope to have the Procharger and brackets tommorrow. I'm really interested to see if it will clear the right side tire at full lock. We are gonna chop the top here in the next few days. We are gonna do it 1" exactly and keep the roof parallel to the door tops. Are also gonna look into the gas tank and the headers and exhaust.

We have roughly 12,000 with parts and labor. We have all the suspension and axles on hand or on order. That also includes the Procharger mock up and Bracketry.

I will have hour total tonight after I do payroll and billing, Enjoy.

[ironworks]

I Just layed 1" tape up on there and thought that 1 inch was about right. The 1.5" line I layed out looked to far. Does anyone have the measurement of the hardtop from the door top to the rain gutter? the window opening on a post is 13 15/16 - 14 1/8" .

Rodger

[HWY Nova]

Rodger,

I will measure my Nova tonight if you don't get an answer sooner.

--Eric

[ironworks]

You know you could always send yours up here so I could measure it.........

[HWY Nova]

But what if I want to send you my convertible?

--Eric

[ironworks]

Then do it.

[deuce1963]

http://novaresource.org/dimensions.htm

Don't know the exact answer to your question Rodger but the link is showing that the sedan is 1" tall than the coupe, I never realized that before.

Bob

[ironworks]

We have 151.8 hours in this from start to here as of 9/9.

Enjoy

[Young Gun]

what percentage of the chassis is finished?

[ironworks]

maybe 60%

[Young Gun]

damn yall move fast!!! looks great!

[ironworks]

We are currently building the tubs for the rear and waiting for the rear suspension to show up. The rack will be here monday so we can build the frame to the bumper tabs we have in place. The rear should go pretty fast with Solidworks and the waterjet. We have to figure out a fuel tank, we originally planned to put a Summit 20 street cell in the back, but He wants something nicer now. Plus we have to do the headers and exhaust. We should have this thing off the chassis table in about 4 weeks.

Rodger

[HWY Nova]

What does one have to do to see your progress?.... come to Ironworks?

[ironworks]

I posted pics on wednesday. I will post again tonight, we got the Procharger on and it clears the tire, but it is tight on the radiator and radiator hose inlet. We will probabley run AN fittings on the radiator. We might slide the engine back 1". The tubes are about half way done. The main hoop is in and we need to cut the roof to fit the hoop now.

But as you know if you come to Ironworks there is always food involved in the 25 cent tour. Plus Johns nova is looking pretty naked right now, and the truck cab is on the chassis for the last time. So things are happening.

Rodger

[ironworks]

Ok so a start on the wheel tubs, the main hoop is in 1" low and the cut will happen next week on the roof. The Procharger and alternator ar mocked up. I will get another pic of the clearance issue on the front of the radiator and post that.

[HWY Nova]

There was never a doubt that things don't happen at Ironworks....... It is one happening shop!!!!

I hope to get there again soon.

[ironworks]

I will be here tommorrow with the owner of the 63 and we are going to have some country fried steak for lunch. I will buy if you will fly.

[HWY Nova]

Let me check with the boss.

[Garage Dog 65]

Looking great guys ! :thumbsup:

How many people work there and can you list their names and what they do ?

Thx !!

[J2SpeedandCustom]

Rodger,

What is a ballpark on the hours to final weld a chassis of that magnitude! Looks Killer!

[ironworks]

I could have the chassis welded and set on the ground in about 60 hours, but We need to install the tubs before we weld the rear solid. I hope to set it on the ground in the next few weeks.

Rodger

[69c4x11]

Ok,, Rodger keep us updated ,, AS YOU HAVE TIME ???? How the hell do you do it !!!! How many employee's actualy fab-ing ??

[wiedemab]

Any updates - Sorry I get antsy!

Keep up the good work!

Later,

Brandon

[Garage Dog 65]

Last we heard from Rodger on another thread (John's Nova) that they were going to need to focus on the Truck and the Nova to ensure they had them ready in time for their shows. Sounds like they are in Thrash:30.

and just as I posted this - I saw Rodger's light come on.

[wiedemab]

I kind of thought that may be the case. They've got a few irons in the fire right now. I'll be patient. I want to see John's Nova and the truck done too.

Good luck to the Ironworks gang - keep up the good work!

[ironworks]

Well here you go, we have been working hard on everybodies car. We have almost 500 hours in this baby, The tubs are build and 70% of the chassis Is welded. We will start on the sheetmetal. I sure am glad brian let us cut the top. Not to bad for less then 45 days ago we had a stocker.

[4cefed]

Three pics? Are you kidding me! Im sure im not the only one who wants to see more.

[awr68]

Thanks for the update! Going to be killer!

Man I miss the sun!!!!!!!!

[Sales@Dutchboys]

BAD ASS!!! :hail: I love it!


Paul

[ironworks]

I will get a bunch more on my site, If I could not get them to load. I also want the customer to see it in person before the whole world sees it. So only 3 to keep you guys from rioting.

[Tom.A]

Looks very impressive Rodger. :thumbsup:

[wiedemab]

Thanks Rodger - I just needed my fix!

The car is looking great!

[ironworks]

I will have some more after brian gets here tommorrow. We are starting on the details now and ordering the wheels. My new guy Johnny has done alot of work on this along with Erik.

To answer somebodies question about the guys. I have gotten them from all over the country. Brycen has been with me for about 3 years, he is from Ohio. Jason is local guy who worked at the dealership and pit crewed on a high school stock car team. Jeremy is from Wisconsin and is a sheet metal maniac. I got Erik a few months ago from Bishop Ca. He is tube bending and notching machine. Johnny started a few about 2 months ago and came from a local race car shop. I'm the oldest at 31 years old and most of my guys never saw the A team in regular TV.

Thanks

[novanutcase]

Ah PITY the Foo'!!!!!!

John

[va72mlibu]

most of my guys never saw the A team in regular TV.

You're gonna be in trouble when a customer comes in and wants a machine gun mounted to his van. They're not even gonna know where to start!

[abadsvt]

That nova is SICK!!! Beautiful work and definately top notch. Just curious, how long have you been building these unbelievable rides? I live in Atascadero, CA which s right next to Paso Robles. Next time i am going through Bakersfield i would love to come by and see this stuff in person if that would be okay? I bet it is really wicked in person. Any chance you are going to the Pismo Beach Car Show in June? Talk to you later

[ironworks]

Thanks, Randy who owns the 49 caddy lives in Atascadero. He tells me there are some big time engine builders over there. Any time you want to swing by just let me know, I pretty much live at the shop. We have been in business for 7 years now. If my secratary did her job yesterday while I was gone the website should be updated with a bunch of pics of the 63, 66, and some new projects.

[camcojb]

you do great work Rodger. :thumbsup:

Jody

[ironworks]

Thanks, Johnny and Erik have done all the work on it. I cannot believe we started on this thing 1 week before Christmas. I also cannot believe I forgot to take pics of it parked next to Johns Nova in the shop. Only Brian, the owner has those pics. I completely forgot to snap some pics.

[deuce1963]

Hey Rodger the car is coming along great, one question though, whose dog is in there, he looks mighty comfortable!:lol:

[ironworks]

Yeah that would be Jake, He is kind of the head honcho/Walmart door greeter around here. He loves everyone except the gardener who on tuesdays.

[brian mc]

Thanks, Johnny and Erik have done all the work on it. I cannot believe we started on this thing 1 week before Christmas. I also cannot believe I forgot to take pics of it parked next to Johns Nova in the shop. Only Brian, the owner has those pics. I completely forgot to snap some pics.


Ya I didn't get to many of them together, but heres a few i did find. I couldn't back up far enough to get them both in, Rodger you have too many bad a$$ projects in the way. You'll have to let me up stairs next time.

[ironworks]

Well look who decided to step out from the shadows.

Speaking of space I'm hoping to have bandage on that problem later this week when me consume the shop next store to make the shop to 10,000 sq feet. We are going to make a bitchin final assembly room and parts storage.

[brian mc]

right on.... can't wait till you guys do paint so you can oversee that aspect and bring that much more quality to your builds

Ironworks you guys do some awesome work.

[bucks69]

Brian, first of all Welcome
AWESOME car you are having built by Rodger and his crew.
They do awesome work and I always look forward to seeing what they have created. :thumbsup:

[brian mc]

Thanks buck, after seeing johns z06 nova I knew i had to find out about this ironworks shop after meeting rodger and witnessing the work he and his shop put out i left my car in thier capable hands. thier young but they can build.

[BLACKJACK]

VERY COOL..SHE'S GONNA LOOK GOOD WITH THOSE FAT A$$ 335'S:yes:

[ironworks]

Wow Thanks guys. I really think it only possible to build awesome rides for good people. I have worked with the zillion dollar guys with ego problems and the car just never has a soul. It is not always about the money, As it does pay the bills, but building friendships and killer cars is what this whole hobby is about. It is also in that order. Alot of our high end projects could not be done if they done for any one else.

[abadsvt]

Wow Thanks guys. I really think it only possible to build awesome rides for good people. I have worked with the zillion dollar guys with ego problems and the car just never has a soul. It is not always about the money, As it does pay the bills, but building friendships and killer cars is what this whole hobby is about. It is also in that order. Alot of our high end projects could not be done if they done for any one else.

This kind of attitude is what seperates you from the rest (besides you skills) and people pick up on that kind of attitude. You help peoples dreams come to life which is awesome and i could imagine very rewarding at the same time. Mad props and keep up the great work.

[deuce1963]

Brian welcome aboard, love your car and everything that has been done to it, can't wait to see more.

Bob

[novanutcase]

DANG! That first gen sure is looking good!:thumbsup:

John

[brian mc]

Thanks Bob.




And thanks John, for letting Rodger put your wheels on my ride, those Fikses are lookin pretty dope.

[novanutcase]

Thanks Bob.




And thanks John, for letting Rodger put your wheels on my ride, those Fikses are lookin pretty dope.

Your welcome but I should be mad at you for letting Rodger put your blower on my car! After I saw that I just couldn't resist!:lol: :lol: :lol:

Looks Great!

John

[brian mc]

Yeah, it looks very much at home in your car:thumbsup:

[ironworks]

Hay there are 11 new pics on the website of the project, "NOVA-CAINE"

[HWY Nova]

Rodger,

Any updates?

[ironworks]

I believe there are fresh pics as of friday on my website. We are trying to update weekly.

Rodger

[ironworks]

These were taken friday night, The loose ends are starting to come togther.

[HWY Nova]

I think anyone who own's a Nova should that it to Ironworks!

--Eric

[ironworks]

So when do I pick yours up?