RideTech ShockWave vs. "normal" coil over

[out2kayak]

Hey all,

This Thurday I'll be pulling the trigger on ordering my shocks and springs.

I'm still struggling with the decision to go with "regular" coil overs or ShockWaves.

Here is the thinking at the moment:

ShockWaves:

Pros:

1. Ability to adjust the ride height as I drive. This is compelling so the body does not drag on curbs, speed bumps, etc. I don't intend on "dancing" the car.
2. Looks really cool


Cons:

1. A lot more weight with the compressor, etc.
2. A lot more stuff that can break when racing
3. A lot more expensive
4. A lot more effort in installing it (electronics, pneumatics, etc.).

The car will be used for autocross, street, and shows. Handling is king for me. If I do drag race, I can tune both so I figure it's a wash.

Any other pros / cons? Would you spend your money on a set if money was not an issue?

Thoughts?

:cheers:

[speedjohnston]

Since 'handling is king', ask yourself what would a race car work best with. I, and this is a personal opinion only, would use the regular coil overs. :cheers:

[wellis77]

I'm going with Shockwaves in my build because I like the adjustability and everything I hear is that the ride is second to none.

[Richio1]

Look at the how well the Ridetech cars have done in the autox events... That is the reason I went with their complete set up. Added the airpod upgrade which made the install way easier and it doesn't add that much weight.

[71RS/SS396]

Look at the how well the Ridetech cars have done in the autox events... That is the reason I went with their complete set up. Added the airpod upgrade which made the install way easier and it doesn't add that much weight.

Have you driven your car yet? I am not a fan of shock waves on light cars, the ride quality isn't that great, maybe it's my combination but I have not been that impressed ( I have them on a 69 Camaro and on a 67 Nova ) . The digital controllers are a pita the ride height seems to be inconsistent at the same pressures. One other piece of advice I can give is, don't use the flexible plastic line and pushlock fittings they are leakers. The plastic line has a leak down rate if you look at the mfr. specs. I just finished a 62 bubbletop and did all the lines in steel and used braided ss where they had to be flexible and that car can sit for months and not loose air pressure. Just my .02

[out2kayak]

Unfortunately, I can't take my car for a ride (I received it in several crates and have parts everywhere in the house -- from the attic to the basement).

So, my only recourse is to ask those who have gone before me for their recommendations.

Just for fun, here are the weights posted around the web for the Camaro, Nova, and my 'Vette:

3765 lbs 69 Camaro
3,180 lbs 64 Corvette Convertible
3,145 lbs 67 Nova


:cheers:

[71RS/SS396]

Unfortunately, I can't take my car for a ride (I received it in several crates and have parts everywhere in the house -- from the attic to the basement).

So, my only recourse is to ask those who have gone before me for their recommendations.

Just for fun, here are the weights posted around the web for the Camaro, Nova, and my 'Vette:

3765 lbs 69 Camaro
3,180 lbs 64 Corvette Convertible
3,145 lbs 67 Nova


:cheers:

I would probably dispute that weight on the 69. Maybe a big block car with a/c,t-400 and a heavy driver,full of fuel...etc might weigh that much ,but I doubt it. I think more like maybe 3,300 pounds would be more likely. jmo

[out2kayak]

Not being a Camaro expert, I will have to defer to those in the know. All I can say is that's what I Googled. :)

The thing that strikes me as interesting is my '67 Chevelle (from long, long ago) weighed 2980 lbs with rust holes as the only mod. Seems like the Camaro weighes more than it should, but that's just me.

Anyhow, back on topic.... AirRide vs. coil overs. Any other comments?

:cheers:

[deuce_454]

the shock wave is mush more progressive in its spring characteristic than a "normal" coilover... and it rides a bit better and is easier adjustable... imho there is no argument against a well engineered air system other that increased vehiecle weight and complexity...

but you have to get the right diameter bag and get the mounting height right.. otherwise you will be better off with a CO..

also with the electronically adjustable ridetech shocks, you could have a true "push of a button" drag race setup... with 90/10 front valving at the track.. and autocross/street valving as teh other setting

[out2kayak]

Just to follow up -- received my Afco D/A shocks from Chad Fletcher. It took me a while to pull the trigger -- too much travel for work (called Chad from the airport), but everything went smooth as silk. :thumbsup:

Looks great, can't wait to have them on the car!

:cheers:

[marolf101x]

I just had to jump in on this one. I'd like to debunk a few myths in this thread:

Weight:
Since I do work for Ridetech I thought I'd pull in the help of Popular Hot Rodding, who also had the same concern with their G28 second gen camaro project (you can read the entire story here: http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0603phr_chevrolet_camaro_air_ride_shockwave_instal l/index.html):

"One other preconception many others, us included, had of air systems was that they're heavy and would add weight to the car. After all, you are adding a compressor, a tank, and a host of other equipment, how could it not weigh a ton? With this in mind we ran g/28 down to the local scale and got a baseline weight for the front, back, and whole car. The weighing was done without a driver and with the same tires and wheels in an effort to make it as fair as possible. Keep in mind that our baseline weight already included dearched leaf springs, lighter control arms, lowering springs, and high-performance shocks-so your weight may vary. The starting weight came in at 3,510-pounds with 2,010-pounds on the front axle and 1,490-pounds on the rear axle. After the install, we weighed the Camaro again and came up with a surprising result. The Air Ride system was not heavier, in fact, it knocked a lot of weight off the car. The results were 1,970-pounds on the front axle, 1,450 for the rear axle, and only 3,420 as a total for the whole car. The new exhaust system is a bit smaller, so of the 90-pounds saved, we figure 80-pounds of it was a direct result of the air bag suspension install. We wondered where the weight went until we thought about how heavy the rear leaf springs are and how light the front air spring shock is when compared to the stock shock and steel coil spring combination. We were surprised, but the scale doesn't lie."

Plastic air line and push-to-connect fittings:
We use ONLY DOT approved air lines and fittings (the same thing you see on every semi-tractor trailer rig on the road). Once installed correctly you will never see a leak! Just make sure you use Teflon thread tape on the fittings and cut the air line clean and straight.
Hard line is an acceptable solution (again if done right) but typically you end up with more connection points. Each connection point is a possible leak.
Just ask yourself. . ."when's the last time I saw a semi broke down on the side of the interstate because the air brakes or an air spring failed? Use good quality, DOT approved parts, and you won't have issues either.

Ride Quality:
Compared to traditional coil overs the Shockwave will typically feel smoother. A standard coil spring has a linear spring rate, compress 1 inch, increase Xlbs, compresses another inch, increase 2Xlbs.
The air spring has a progressive spring rate, the further it is compressed the more the lbs increase. So we can actually start with a fairly soft spring rate, and as the Shockwave is compressed end up with a higher spring rate than the equivalent coil spring.
If you suffer ride quality issues (and you installed our entire kit) there are only a few things to check:
1-correct air spring height-if it's too high or too low it rides horrible as the spring rate is wrong
2-suspension bind-are the 4 link bars and/or control arms so tight they don't move? Don't laugh. . .I've seen cars on a lift that don't "droop" at all when you pick them up.
3-do the shocks need rebuilt? The aluminum shocks are high quality, but will require a rebuild if the drive the car enough.

Control Systems:
All of our automated control systems have a window of +/-7psi from preset height. Typically they land within +/-2psi, but you have to have a limit.
If you use the Level Pro option pressure is no longer king (it is used only to see if load has changed, and that all spring rates are similar).

***Air pressure is not directly relational to suspension travel. . .it's close, but not dead on. To get perfect you need to know exactly where the suspension is in space, so you add level sensors. Now, you KNOW the height is correct, and you can make sure the pressures are similar so the spring rates are correct.***

[bret]

Have you driven your car yet? I am not a fan of shock waves on light cars, the ride quality isn't that great, maybe it's my combination but I have not been that impressed ( I have them on a 69 Camaro and on a 67 Nova ) . The digital controllers are a pita the ride height seems to be inconsistent at the same pressures. One other piece of advice I can give is, don't use the flexible plastic line and pushlock fittings they are leakers. The plastic line has a leak down rate if you look at the mfr. specs. I just finished a 62 bubbletop and did all the lines in steel and used braided ss where they had to be flexible and that car can sit for months and not loose air pressure. Just my .02

While ride quality is a subjective opinion, as is the definition of pita...the idea that the DOT approved airlines and DOT approved fittings have a "leakdown rate" is simply wrong. The Department of Transportation specifies that these components be "bubbletight", which is a technical term that means less than
.1% [one tenth of one percent] per 24 hour period. [I am going from memory here...I will dig up our original research data] By this criteria this means at 100 psi it will take at least 30 days to leak down 3 psi. That would be 36 psi per year. My tires leak more than that.
If there is a leak it is because the installer has either A. failed to use thread sealer on the pipe threads of the fitting, or B. failed to cut off the DOT approved airline correctly [as in clean and straight]. If both of those criteria are met, then you will not have a leak.
Notice that I have repeatedly specified "DOT approved". There is a significant difference in both design and price. Non DOT components might work. DOT approved components WILL work.
As far as ride quality on a light car...MOST of the time poor ride quality is caused by A. driving the car too low [too low of air pressure] and allowing the car to bottom out [or close to it] or B. a poorly tuned shock absorber. Ride quality is a broad and subjective issue...too long for this thread, but we do have some general tech information on our website about that. http://www.ridetech.com/info/
From the post above I don't have enough information to address the digital controller issue, but will certainly do so. Some of the information referred to above might be relevant.
As usual, I respect everyone's opinions here...just trying to distribute solid information.

[ssick chevelle]

awesome post, great info what was the outcome of your choice? did u go with the shockwaves?