T56 Mag Shifter Location 69 Camaro

[LarryC5]

Question:

I'm about to trial fit a T56 Mag LS trans into my 69 Camaro with a BBC. The T56 Mag apparently has two possible shifter locations by rotating the shifter/plate by 180.

What is the best location for the shifter to be mounted (forward or aft) ? I will be using a console if possible. I want to have the shifter in the most correct location before bolt up the trans to the engine then go cutting holes in a clean trans tunnel.....

Lastly, the trans as delivered has the shifter mounted in the furthest rear most part of the trans.

Thx

Larry

[Sieg]

The forward position with an offset handle adapter positions it for the stock console placement.

[MattG]

The forward position with an offset handle adapter positions it for the stock console placement.

x2...I just put the t56 magnum in my '69 and the shifter can be turned around to the forward position. Worked perfectly!

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy199/mgober737/2011-07-31153512.jpg

[LarryC5]

Thanks Matt and Sieg,

Any tunnel mod required?

Larry

[MattG]

mine was an original auto, so I just cut the whole to fit....

[LarryC5]

Thanks Matt,

The car the trans is going in started life as an auto so I also need to cut the hole for the shifter. Dry run planned for this weekend....All of the clutch parts including the Hydraulic T/O set-up from American Powertrain arrived today so I'm now in business......

lg

[Sieg]

Sorry for the late response, been in the middle of my install/re-install due to the wrong to bearing (short). I cut an access hole to make it easier to see what was going on throught the fitment process.
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-cvrZcWX/0/M/IMGP6594-M.jpg

The right side bolts front access cover (ahead of the shifter) were lightly contacting the tunnel when the trans was fully installed. Since I had to pull it again I jacked up that tunnel section with a 2x4 slightly larger than the cover plate and massaged the tunnel with a composite hammer to gain the needed clearance, approx. .25". My plan is to make a temporary cover plate until I get time to properly stitch weld a fill piece in place.

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-sNT3VB7/1/L/IMGP6595-L.jpg

[LarryC5]

Sieg,

Great pics......These REALLY help better understand the job in front of me. It looks like tunnel clearance is tight but manageable with some assistance of a light hammer or mallet and a 2x4.

Are you comfortable with the clearance you were able to achieve? It also looks like I need to remove the pems from underneath the tunnel that were inserted by the factory for bolting down the factory console as these probably take up about 1/4" or so of space.

Lastly, is your car lowered and or using half height sub-frame bushings? I'm using factory height bushings but car is lowered via suspension at about 1.5" or so.

Again, thanks for the feedback!

Larry

[Sieg]

I have stock subframe, new standard height body mounts, doesn't appear the floor/tunnel has sag much, Moroso solid mounts (original SS bases), Energy trans mount, Quicktime bellhousing.

The fender to ground measurements are approx 24.25" F and 24.75" R, so it's about 2+" lower via front coils and Global West leafs and 1" blocks.

I massaged the bellhousing area of the firewall a fair amount:
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-4297CWh/0/L/IMGP6538-L.jpg
My guess is the cars vary quite a bit in this area of production.

Finished with 3M Rubberized Undercoating:
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-rRwmhqV/0/L/IMGP6579-L.jpg
I also ground the front console mounting bolts flush to the well nuts.

Shimmed the front of the crossmember to lower it at the mount a little:
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-PF2n3mC/0/L/IMGP6590-L.jpg

I'm "hopefully" finishing the install today. Bellhousing is in, just need to re-install the tranny. I'll be taking more pics through the process. My guess is I'll have .25"-.38" clearance from the tunnel to right front inspection cover bolts.

Hope the info helps. :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

Larry,

Here's the where I bowed the front of the tunnel:
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-bBrPqHg/0/XL/IMAG1089-XL.jpg

With the trans installed I ended up with the engine/trans at a 2.5* downward angle. The right side shifter cover bolts are about 2-3 mm above the opening, left side are 2-3 mm below.
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-jr9NgJg/0/L/IMAG1103-L.jpg
(cardboard taped over shifter opening for test drives)

[LarryC5]

Sieg,

Again, great pictures. I now have a very clear picture of what is in front of me. Having done a TKO swap before the basics were there just the damn tunnel and firewall had me a little nervous.

For the record, I'm dropping in a 540ci BBC on SMBC engine frame stands. Not sure if this will add to the fun or not.....

Congrats your install......

Larry

[Sieg]

Sieg,

Again, great pictures. I now have a very clear picture of what is in front of me. Having done a TKO swap before the basics were there just the damn tunnel and firewall had me a little nervous.

For the record, I'm dropping in a 540ci BBC on SMBC engine frame stands. Not sure if this will add to the fun or not.....

Congrats your install......

Larry
Be patient and enjoy the challege. SBC / BBC drivetrain centerlines shouldn't be much different :thumbsup:

[69z11]

I am putting in a 496bb w 650hp/560 torque. Want to put in tranny to handle and considering t56 mag. Will the 6 spd fit in the factory console with no cutting. My car is a 69 vert born as a 4 spd.

[Sieg]

I am putting in a 496bb w 650hp/560 torque. Want to put in tranny to handle and considering t56 mag. Will the 6 spd fit in the factory console with no cutting. My car is a 69 vert born as a 4 spd.
With the Hurst "Blackjack" shifter and offset shifter mount, yes. The T56 Magnum is supposedly rated/warranted for 700 ft. lbs.

[69z11]

Thank you!

[6D9 Matt]

With the Hurst "Blackjack" shifter and offset shifter mount, yes. The T56 Magnum is supposedly rated/warranted for 700 ft. lbs.

Yes that should work (or I hope). I have that exact tranny (and shifter, etc) being installed into my Camaro right now, hope to get it back this week.

[69z11]

And you have the factory console?

[6D9 Matt]

Yessir

[69z11]

I'm ordering one. Let me know how your install event goes. Good luck and have fun!

[LarryC5]

Sieg,

I did a trial fit with eng and bell only last night. The clearance needed around the trans tunnel where the bell resides need massaging on my car as well. How much massaging did you do? I'm thinking I need to go 1" or more. The clearance you achieved looks to be far greater than initially I think I can get without pulling out my plasma cutter...

So, what is the best approach tool and technique wise to "massage" the tunnel area? BFH for starters I assume.

Regards,

Larry

[Sieg]

Sieg,

I did a trial fit with eng and bell only last night. The clearance needed around the trans tunnel where the bell resides need massaging on my car as well. How much massaging did you do? I'm thinking I need to go 1" or more. The clearance you achieved looks to be far greater than initially I think I can get without pulling out my plasma cutter...

So, what is the best approach tool and technique wise to "massage" the tunnel area? BFH for starters I assume.

Regards,

Larry

Larry,

I probably moved the "high" spots close to an inch. BFH (ballpeen) smoothed radius with a file. Lot of patience and hammer blows to move and shape it without distorting the metal too much. From the inside it's hardly noticable.

Critical clearance/access points are the top two bellhousing bolts. Mine is really tight with a long extention.

[LarryC5]

Sieg,

I'm in with the T56 Mag using my 502 as the test mule for fitment before I drop in the 540. It appears that I have plenty of clearance after all. Did some light massaging of the trans tunnel area right below the firewall as you did but that was it for now.

It is time to deal with the various console mounting points......The shifter location on the trans is where I will most likely have interference if at all.

Again, thanks for the pics and input.

Larry

[Sieg]

Congrats!

The right side bolts on the shifter plate (6 bolts) and inspection cover (4 bolts) are all high on mine, bowed the right side of the tunnel top at the inspection cover and I'm making a removable tunnel plate for the shifter opening.

[Sieg]

Larry,

Here's the tunnel cover I rought out last night:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/293528_1792043095676_1677609135_1257424_714091_n.j pg

[LarryC5]

Sieg,

Looking very good! I'm about to start on one myself. Are you considering making removable in the event you need to service the shifter?

Larry

[Sieg]

Sieg,

Looking very good! I'm about to start on one myself. Are you considering making removable in the event you need to service the shifter?

LarryCurrent plan is to make studs out of panhead allen bolts, grind the heads flatter and tack them to the tunnel or a plate that gets tacked to the tunnel. For the console center mount I'll tack a similar stud on the tunnel cover and use a rubber spacer to set the height. The tunnel will be covered with Dynamat Extreme, I may double layer the tunnel where the cover flange contacts, that will add a little clearance and insure a good seal.

[DFRESH]

We just finished the install of the T56 Mag in my 69. I run half inch high body mounts in the car. Brett had to massage the tunnel in mine to get it to fit.

I will be curious to see if that Black Jack shifter works ok for you. Mine did not work well--was nearly impossible to get into reverse with it and it leaked fluid right through the shifter hole. We finally switched back to the shifter that came with the trans, and what a world of difference. No leaks and much, much easier to shift the car with original setup. It's very disapointing however, as the throw on the Black Jack was shorter. Please let me know how yours works out---maybe I just received a bad one. Will be calling Hurst Driveline Converstions this week to see what next step is with it. Has anyone else experienced same with this shifter?

Doug

[6D9 Matt]

I am in the process of having my Magnum installed right now. It has been in the shop for almost 3 months bc we keep having issues with the flywheel and having a vibration in the engine (yet put original back on and no vibration). We are on our 3rd flywheel now and hopefully Ill hear from them today or tomorrow. They didnt say they had any issues with the blackjack shifter though... Ill make sure and keep an eye out for an issue there though.

[Sieg]

We just finished the install of the T56 Mag in my 69. I run half inch high body mounts in the car. Brett had to massage the tunnel in mine to get it to fit.

I will be curious to see if that Black Jack shifter works ok for you. Mine did not work well--was nearly impossible to get into reverse with it and it leaked fluid right through the shifter hole. We finally switched back to the shifter that came with the trans, and what a world of difference. No leaks and much, much easier to shift the car with original setup. It's very disapointing however, as the throw on the Black Jack was shorter. Please let me know how yours works out---maybe I just received a bad one. Will be calling Hurst Driveline Converstions this week to see what next step is with it. Has anyone else experienced same with this shifter?

Doug

Doug,

Sorry I didn't see this sooner. The T56 is a pressurized case and if you look at the stock Tremec shifter they have a sealed rubber boot around the shift handle stem. Supposedly Hurst Drivelines has this info in their instructions though I never saw it. I cut the boot out of the stock shifter and installed it in the Black Jack per their suggestions. Kind of Mickey Mouse on their part. They need to supply a boot that seals the stem properly IMO. Thankfully I have the removable tunnel cover so I can access the shifter to modify or replace in the future without dropping the tranny. If Hurst DL's chooses to address their flaw.

Here's the shifter with console in place
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-BQCgTNh/0/XL/IMAG1313-XL.jpg
I ended up removing 1" from the bottom of the plastic tunnel and have no clearance or shifting issues.

and with the shift boot I sewed up since I couldn't find a rubber boot that I liked.
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Camaro/i-NH9VwCx/0/L/IMGP0002-L.jpg

[LarryC5]

Sieg/Matt

How in the end did T56 trans workout for you two? I had to stop at mock-up due to a heavy work schedule.

Curious how the transmissions are performing on the road. You both were quite ahead of me....

Larry

[Sieg]

Sieg/Matt

How in the end did T56 trans workout for you two? I had to stop at mock-up due to a heavy work schedule.

Curious how the transmissions are performing on the road. You both were quite ahead of me....

Larry

Larry,

I couldn't be happier. The close ratio gear spacings are perfect for me. The throws on the Blackjack shifter are short and precise.

[usa-69z]

instead of starting another 'shfter location' thread i thought id post here and see if any of you guys can help an aussie out !

i have a tremecT56 6 speed from an Aussie 2002 GM Commodore SS..I want to fit this in my 69 sbc camaro. Now from most pics i see of these 'camaro kits' the shifter is much further foward than what my box seems to use? I have measured from end of box to stick and its roughly 28inches. What do i need to purchase to get this is the 'ballpark' position..
I do not use a console and my car was originally an auto car.
thanx , Gav
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd202/dragstripper/TUKSIXSTRIPES-GBOX-CHROMEFEST025.jpg
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd202/dragstripper/TUKSIXSTRIPES-GBOX-CHROMEFEST024.jpg

[68LS1]

I wonder if you can swap tail extension from T56. F body one will get shifter further forward, or better yet will Keisler or Hurst Driveline aftermarket one fit, do they sell seperately?

[usa-69z]

I wonder if you can swap tail extension from T56. F body one will get shifter further forward, or better yet will Keisler or Hurst Driveline aftermarket one fit, do they sell seperately?

Rodger , this box is a T56 .. whats an F body one?
the problem that i see on all the aftermarket shifters for these boxes is the plate which holds the shifter on is of smaller size ?

measures - 5 5/8 long and 2 7/8 wide.
im hoping a keisler/hurst/powertrain rep may chime in ???
ive sent emails to all with no replies:(
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd202/dragstripper/TREMECSHIFTERX2001.jpg

[68LS1]

Gav, FBody is the Camaro or Firebird version, this is what I have in mine.

32437

I think these may be same as the T56 in our VT Series 11 to VY Commodores

Mal Wood is probably best to confirm.

[Rybar]

Gav, looks like you have a GTO style T56. You can probably use any of the F-body shifters like Hurst, B&M or Mcleod.

http://www.classicchevy5speed.com/McLeod-Industries.aspx

[Sieg]

Gav,

The 93-02 Hurst Billet Plus Camaro shifter may work:
http://www.hurst-shifters.com/hurst-products/93-02-Camaro-V8-with-BW-T56/BILLET-PLUS-SHIFTER_4#

Looks like it may position the shifter forward 2.5-3" is that enough?

[usa-69z]

thanx guys ,, i feel like im getting somewhere now..
question , do you think a 'billet plus' hurst shifter would be in an ok position ? with a straight stick.
i dont run a console and have no holes cut in floor (yet) .

Gav

[Sieg]

Someone is fabricating offset handle brackets like the one in my picture for Hurst and other vendors. Between an adapter and possibly a modded handle you should be able find a sweet spot.

If LarryC5 has his trans close by maybe he can throw a tape on it and give you the bellhousing to shifter position length on the T56 Magnum with Blackjack shifter which locates in the original factory position. Which with a replica Hurst shift handle is very comfortable. I have had no desire to relocate the handle position. It fits like a glove so to speak, its' close to the wheel and I don't feel like I'm reaching for it. For reference: I'm 5'-11' with 31.5" inseam, 72.5" wingspan. :cheers:

[Rybar]

thanx guys ,, i feel like im getting somewhere now..
question , do you think a 'billet plus' hurst shifter would be in an ok position ? with a straight stick.
i dont run a console and have no holes cut in floor (yet) .

Gav

This is exactly what I run and the shifter location is perfect IMO.

[usa-69z]

This is exactly what I run and the shifter location is perfect IMO.

Ryan , can you just confirm by looking at the pic i posted with the shifter off that it will fit on there? .. I notice on mine the socket is a little to the right side , is this how they all are or is it a RHD thing they did?

Gav


edit p.s , i just got a email back from Scott at hurst saying he hasnt got anything that will fit my gearbox??????? f**ked if i know???

[RocketsGarage]

I'd like to revive the end of this thread. I'm experiencing the same questions on a setup a customer is hoping to make work (Big block, GTO T56 in a '68 Camaro, no console). I've talked to all the places and no one seems to make anything for the "GTO" T56. The shifter location is considerably further back than the T56 Magnum.

I know people have installed regular T56s into Camaros but am wondering what they did to re-position the shifter correctly.

[gnx7]

You can convert the GTO shifter to an FBody style running the same tailshaft and bring it forward 3-4"