Best AGM battery?

[TheJDMan]

I will be needing a battery for "Dust Off" soon and I initially was just going to install an Optima. But I have been hearing more and more grumbling from people who are unhappy with Optima's apparent declining quality. I was doing some reasearch on AGM batteries and have read a good deal of positive reviews on both the DieHard Platinum and the Odyssey AGM batteries. I would like to see what the Lat-G members think about AGM batteries.

[The WidowMaker]

im a little behind you in my research, but have you looked into the braille batteries? they are made by another company that markets them as well. no sure who was cheaper though.

[canrc]

I just bought a braille b3121 from summit, $190 delivered -- haven't mounted it yet but will do so soon, it wieghs just under 22lbs and doesn't take up any room at all.

[SLO_Z28]

I will be needing a battery for "Dust Off" soon and I initially was just going to install an Optima. But I have been hearing more and more grumbling from people who are unhappy with Optima's apparent declining quality.

Funny thing about that is that with the aquisition of Optima by Johnson Controls a few years ago the manufacturing processes and quality has improved.

People armchair quarterback the optima batterys more than they should, because people have no idea what they're doing. Most of the time they have a problem with their car that they're too stupid to figure out. If you properly maintain a red top it will last you a LONG time, I got 14 years out of mine before it was killed by human error.

[Vegas69]

I agree, to many people let them go flat while their projects or babies sit. They don't like to be brought back from the after life. :unibrow: I've been happy with my red top. I ALWAYS tender it.

[Ron in SoCal]

im a little behind you in my research, but have you looked into the braille batteries? they are made by another company that markets them as well. no sure who was cheaper though.

So researching on the net, Braille is a great battery but made by EastPenn and simply rebadged and sold at a higher price. I have no direct knowledge of this but guys on another forum seem to like them. Supposedly 1/2 price as well --

http://www.dekabatteries.com/default.aspx?pageid=4

[TheJDMan]

People armchair quarterback the optima batterys more than they should, because people have no idea what they're doing. Most of the time they have a problem with their car that they're too stupid to figure out. If you properly maintain a red top it will last you a LONG time, I got 14 years out of mine before it was killed by human error.

Then there must be a whole lot of stupid people out there cause there are a whole lot of people complaining about Optima quality. The AGM batteries do require special treatment with respect to proper charging techniques and perhaps it is more a lack of education than stupidity.

[suark]

Recently, at a local Blain's Farm & Fleet store automotive department, I noticed all of the Optima batteries were marked down about 40%, I asked the guy at the counter why, he said that since they started making them in Mexico a few years ago the warranty claims have gone through the roof and sales are down so they're blowing them out and getting rid of them for good.

[69z]

We have had excellent service from the EXIDE ORBITAL batteries. We use them in the race cars and also in the show cars. Their pricing seems to fall below the Optimas. We just picked up one for $125.

[camsdad]

My girlfriend really, really likes her Duracell copper top batteries.:unibrow:

[Boss 5.0]

My Optima red top has been in my street rod for twelve years now and has never had a problem with starting or charging. My next car will get an Optima as well. I also have heard a lot of negative, but you can't prove it by me.

[Fluid Power]

My girlfriend really, really likes her Duracell copper top batteries.:unibrow:


I am not sure I would be broadcasting that about MY girlfriend! :lol:

Darren

[JKnight]

Funny thing about that is that with the aquisition of Optima by Johnson Controls a few years ago the manufacturing processes and quality has improved.

People armchair quarterback the optima batterys more than they should, because people have no idea what they're doing. Most of the time they have a problem with their car that they're too stupid to figure out. If you properly maintain a red top it will last you a LONG time, I got 14 years out of mine before it was killed by human error.

I use to think this was the case as well. In my project car I committed all of the Optima sins that people uneducated about the battery will tend to do. So I can't really blame the battery in those cases.

However, I decided to pony up the cash and put two red tops in my daily driver diesel truck. They lasted 20 months, had them warrantied, the next pair lasted 26 months. I went with a plain ol' Interstate battery and they've been in there for three years. There is nothing wrong with the charging system or excessive draws, and the truck was driven 5 times a week minimum. I was not highly impressed with those results.

I love the support that Optima gives to our community and commend them for it. I hope they have great success selling their batteries. Unfortunately, the only good thing I've found about them is they tend to die within the 24 month warranty period.

[SLO_Z28]

I use to think this was the case as well. In my project car I committed all of the Optima sins that people uneducated about the battery will tend to do. So I can't really blame the battery in those cases.

However, I decided to pony up the cash and put two red tops in my daily driver diesel truck. They lasted 20 months, had them warrantied, the next pair lasted 26 months. I went with a plain ol' Interstate battery and they've been in there for three years. There is nothing wrong with the charging system or excessive draws, and the truck was driven 5 times a week minimum. I was not highly impressed with those results.

I love the support that Optima gives to our community and commend them for it. I hope they have great success selling their batteries. Unfortunately, the only good thing I've found about them is they tend to die within the 24 month warranty period.

What specifically went wrong? How do you know they're bad?

I spent too long selling to the public, and 98% + of people have no idea what they're doing. I would also venture to say that 75% + of techs dont know what theyre doing either. Its funny having a "master tech" not know what RMS is....

[TheJDMan]

I did a Google search on AGM batteries. These are the latest in battery technology. In a nutshell there are three types of lead acid batteries. 1. The conventional flooded plate batteries where the sulfuric acid is liquid and free to slosh around in the cell. 2. The Gell Cell where the acid is mixed with additives to turn it into a gell. The plates are then submerged in the gell much like the flooded cell. 3. AGM or Absorbed Glass Mat, these have a special fiberglass mat saturated with acid sandwiched in between each plate. The plates and mats are stacked in each cell then compressed to fit in the cell. The result is that the plates are extremely stable and supported against vibration and if the case is punctured the acid will not leak out.

AGM batteries are used in highly critical applications such as aircraft, marine and computer UPS (uninterruptable power supplies) systems just to name a few. I have been doing a fair amount of research becasue I need to replace the OEM batteries in my Duramax and I want the best I can buy. There are a couple of themes that kept poping up when I was researching. 1. Optima has a lot of people complaining about the Optima quality on a lot of forums. 2. The Odyssey AGM batteries keep being mentioned as the battery to buy. Interestingly Sears DieHard Platinum is an AGM battery which is made by Odyssey for Sears and rates as high as the Odyssey battery for about $50 less.

Here is a Wikipedia article which explains AGM batteries:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRLA_battery

A link to Odyssey's web site:
http://www.odysseyfactory.com/index.html

Sears DieHard Platinum page:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...9&blockType=G9

[JKnight]

What specifically went wrong? How do you know they're bad?

I spent too long selling to the public, and 98% + of people have no idea what they're doing. I would also venture to say that 75% + of techs dont know what theyre doing either. Its funny having a "master tech" not know what RMS is....

How do I know they're bad? The batteries didn't have enough voltage to satisfy the ECM's voltage requirements while cranking. Engine would turn over slowly and ecm would never supply any fuel (7.3l PS diesel).

In both cases the Optima's would slowly lose their ability to take a charge while the vehicle is driven and when taken to an approved Optima dealer, they test the batteries and proclaim that they have a "dead cell". Since they were under warranty and in my daily driver, I didn't do any diagnosis or attempted recharging (with a non-optima-approved charger) on my own.

[sniper]

I spent too long selling to the public, and 98% + of people have no idea what they're doing. I would also venture to say that 75% + of techs dont know what theyre doing either. Its funny having a "master tech" not know what RMS is....

I have killed all too many optimas. But it's because I'll drain them too far. But I have treated other brands the same way and guess what, they can be recovered.
Having said that, You make it seem that anyone who buys an Optima needs a PhD to keep it in shape.
If these batteries need so much time and effort to keep them alive and other batteries do not, the problem is not with the consumer who just want something that will last a reasonable amount of time. If I can buy an east penn battery and forget about it or buy an Optima and wonder when it's going to take a $hit, the choice is a no brainer.

[Richio1]

I have killed all too many optimas. But it's because I'll drain them too far. But I have treated other brands the same way and guess what, they can be recovered.
Having said that, You make it seem that anyone who buys an Optima needs a PhD to keep it in shape.
If these batteries need so much time and effort to keep them alive and other batteries do not, the problem is not with the consumer who just want something that will last a reasonable amount of time. If I can buy an east penn battery and forget about it or buy an Optima and wonder when it's going to take a $hit, the choice is a no brainer.

Amen brother!

[philofab]

Optimas are normally the bast bang for the buck (IE cheapest AGM). If you DO buy an Optima do yourself a favor and get a Yellow Top OR deep cycle Blue Top (Same battery just different posts and colors). The deep cycle is a tougher battery.

Odyssey, Deka, Lifeline, XS all make a great products. Many Odysseys are now in California Government vehicles (police, fire, ect) and are lasting 5-7 years on average.

[dubbleu]

My Optima lasted just over a year. Replaced it with a Eliminator Spiral and it turns that 540 BBC over like a 4 cylinder.

Optima = Never Again!!

[Northeast Rod Run]

If you DO buy an Optima do yourself a favor and get a Yellow Top OR deep cycle Blue Top (Same battery just different posts and colors). The deep cycle is a tougher battery.


I just had my second yellow top die in less than 3 years (this one lasted less than 6 months).

When my first one died, my local hi-per shop suggested I only go with the red tops because in all the years of selling them, he said he has less than a handful returned. he says the yellows get returned all the time. I told him I was going to give them one more shot and this was it.

He asked if I had a drain on my car and I told him I checked and found nothing. My yellow top died after just sitting for a couple of weeks. As a test afterwards, I put a 6 year old A/C Delco in the same car and let it sit for almost a month and the car still fired right up. That battery sits outside all year round in my '69 Camaro (Optima is always indoors), including New England winters. NEVER on a tender and always fires up the Camaro even if it sits all winter.

I will not go back to Optima. I understand that they are supposed to be a great battery, but how great can it be when it always has to be put on a tender, when other batteries, at half the price, don't need the same overly gentle care?

[OptimaJim]

Hello, Chris gave me a heads-up on your conversation and I was hoping I could offer some assistance. As James indicated, the quality of our products has improved under JCI's ownership, which goes back more than a decade. Many of the “bad” batteries returned to us now are just deeply-discharged and work fine, when properly-recharged.

TheJDMan, I cannot speak for other manufacturers, but our batteries can be charged and maintained just like flooded lead-acid batteries, although “gel” and “gel/AGM” charger settings should be avoided, as they may not fully-charge our batteries and could damage them over time.

suark, the information given to you by the guy behind the counter at Blain's was simply not accurate. Our batteries are still being sold at their stores and our manufacturing defect rate has continually declined under JCI's ownership.

Boss 5.0, I'm glad to hear your RedTop has been peforming so well for you. We are always collecting stories like your's for our Wall of Power. In fact, we have sent at least three Wall of Power inductees out to SEMA on our nickel. If you'd like to submit your story for consideration, you can do so here (http://www.optimabatteries.com/powerstories/).

sniper, many of our deeply-discharged batteries can also be recovered. However, many older chargers will not recognize or charge any battery that has been discharged below a minimum voltage threshold (typically around 10.5 volts). This is not unique to Optima and has been problematic enough for other battery companies, that some will void the warranty on their batteries, if they are found to have been discharged below a minimum voltage level. We didn't do that with our warranty, but we did create this YouTube video (http://youtu.be/dIoaL3DWWEg), which explains how to recover deeply-discharged batteries.

TJ, when you measured the parasitic draw on your vehicle, what did it measure and what was the voltage of your YellowTops when you returned them under warranty?

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

[BBPanel]

.... Many of the “bad” batteries returned to us now are just deeply-discharged and work fine, when properly-recharged....
Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries (http://www.facebook.com/optimabatteries)
Would be interesting to see some statistics rather than "many". Thanks for coming online to provide input. -Bob

[OptimaJim]

Bob, there are days when I would love to share that information. However, no battery manufacturer shares that data and even if we did, I don't think some folks would believe the numbers anyway, based on of their personal experiences. The number of good batteries returned under warranty is significant enough that Optima felt it warranted investing their resources in producing that YouTube video and having me share the information with the online community. The numbers are also high enough for other manufacturers, that some have now added language to their warranties that excludes batteries discharged below a specific voltage level. The numbers are also high enough that my truck and many other vehicles owned by Optima employees start every day on “dead” batteries people mistakenly returned under warranty.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

[JKnight]

Interesting. The Batteries Plus dealer I purchased through tested the battery prior to proclaiming it warrantable. Are all dealers required to perform a test?

Given what you're saying, it seems like the dealer network needs either better training or equipment to identify bad batteries vs. undercharged batteries. This would help Optima's warranty expense significantly...

[philofab]

Interesting. The Batteries Plus dealer I purchased through tested the battery prior to proclaiming it warrantable. Are all dealers required to perform a test?

Given what you're saying, it seems like the dealer network needs either better training or equipment to identify bad batteries vs. undercharged batteries. This would help Optima's warranty expense significantly...


The problem is Autozone's, Oriley's, and many other retailers that have a huge employee turn over. Why train an employee if your only going to keep him or her for 3 months?

I come across good Optima batteries more often than you would think in my core piles.... some take a couple of days to bring back though.

[OptimaJim]

Jeff, ideally all retailers are supposed to attempt to charge and test any battery before making warranty exchanges, although that doesn't always happen. As Chris mentioned, some retailers do have higher turnover rates with their employees, which by itself makes it challenging to keep everyone trained, but that is an issue all battery manufacturers face.

On our retail side, we do have an Optima University training program that tours the country throughout the year. We also host an online training program for our retail partners that offers discounts of up to 20% off, upon completion.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries

[TheJDMan]

Speaking of You Tube videos, here is a video of how the Odyssey batteries are made.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P-wqckJ2nM&feature=related

Here is a better video of how to recharge a deeply discharged Optima. I suspect this proceedure would work with any deeply discharged AGM battery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Slqd73ZOQvI&feature=related

[Track Junky]

My $.02

I have been buying red top optima's since 2000. First and second one lasted me about 5 years each. Last year I bought another red top from Oreilly's. Went bad in a month. In a 6 or 7 month period I returned 5 batteries. All had a dead cell when returned. After the 5th battery they told me this is the last time. I went to Tagnotti's and picked up a red top there. All is good with this one and its been in my car for about 8 months now.

Something must have gone wrong somewhere with Optima maybe for a short period of time is what I'm guessing.