Greg Weld's 65 Mustang fastback track car

[clill]

I think Ron sutton said the sound meter picks up the higher pitched sounds. The nascars are a lower pitch and that little Lotus is high pitched.

[Sieg]

I think Ron sutton said the sound meter picks up the higher pitched sounds. The nascars are a lower pitch and that little Lotus is high pitched.

At T-Hill the sound meter is about 50 yards up the main straight from T-15 in the little building next to the fence in the pits. I believe what was happening to me in the Lotus was hitting the rev limiter in 3rd and the pop from the limiter spiked the meter. The motor/exhaust is quiet, add the wind noise from the open cockpit, and the motor pulls right through the limiter it's tough to gauge your shift point. A shift light would be handy in that little go kart.

[GregWeld]

At T-Hill the sound meter is about 50 yards up the main straight from T-15 in the little building next to the fence in the pits. I believe what was happening to me in the Lotus was hitting the rev limiter in 3rd and the pop from the limiter spiked the meter. The motor/exhaust is quiet, add the wind noise from the open cockpit, and the motor pulls right through the limiter it's tough to gauge your shift point. A shift light would be handy in that little go kart.





Oh.... Very subtle hint.... LOL

[Sieg]

Oh.... Very subtle hint.... LOL

..........especially for someone I know who was complaining that they couldn't hear the motor at all. :whistling:

[GregWeld]

So.... the motor broke again at Sonoma. It was also having a fuel pressure regulator issue. Ron Sutton worked some magic and got it so I could continue to run even with the electric pump making 14 PSI... and a carb that wants to see 6 !!!


But she got hurt... and we (Ron Sutton Race Technologies) had already planned to do a suspension do over at BMR Race Shop in Roseville -- so they'll get in to the motor and we'll plan a course of action.




http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/IMG_6006.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/IMG_6006.jpg.html)






Since the little Lotus and her 1.8 Liter Toyota motor run like a Japanese watch (couldn't use SWISS HERE!) maybe I should stick a Toyota truck motor in it?? Should we have a vote???





http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/IMG_6004.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/IMG_6004.jpg.html)







Dropped the poor Mustang off at the shop.... and I have to tell ya -- it looked quite inadequate and she was having motor and tranny and suspension envy... sitting amongst all this hardware! OH YEAH!!







http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/IMG_6007.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/IMG_6007.jpg.html)





http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/IMG_6008.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/IMG_6008.jpg.html)





http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/IMG_6009.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/IMG_6009.jpg.html)







And I've had to give SIEG the boot from the Lotus.... so he'll be running this bad boy next event.... if he can find a sponsor.







http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/IMG_6011.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/IMG_6011.jpg.html)

[Musclerodz]

For all the hell you have had with that motor, I suggest an LS swap....:peepwall:

[GregWeld]

For all the hell you have had with that motor, I suggest an LS swap....:peepwall:




That is a definite option at this point Mike. This motor didn't like Charley and it certainly doesn't like me. But I also have no idea what is wrong this time.. so will wait to pull the plug.

[Sieg]

And I've had to give SIEG the boot from the Lotus.... so he'll be running this bad boy next event.... if he can find a sponsor.


http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/IMG_6011.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/IMG_6011.jpg.html)

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

If you guys knew what it took to get into that damn thing you'd really appreciate that crappy iPhone pic. I'm sure the top lifted up but I'll be damned if I could figure out how! :sieg:

[Vegas69]

Good to hear the car was having problems. For a moment there, I was going to recommend taking up golf. You know, with Gae running a faster time. :lol:

[GregWeld]

Good to hear the car was having problems. For a moment there, I was going to recommend taking up golf. You know, with Gae running a faster time. :lol:

Times are irrelevant in track days... mostly because no two cars are anywhere near "equal". Different motors - different size tires - different compound tires... That's just jerking off talk. The Lotus with it's 1.8 liter motor was faster... and the Mustang with it's skinny tires was slower... only at the point of when Ron choose to time the laps. When Gae was trying to chase me the Mustang pulled on him like he was dragging an anchor. Doesn't matter.... it's all just so much BS. There's dozens of cars and drivers out there that are FAR faster and there's an equal amount that are easily passed... I only pass people if they're slower than I am - but it's not the way I keep track of my "progress" as a driver or how well the car is working (or not). If people keep track of that kind of stuff - then they're not having much fun just enjoying the "event" and the people and their own car. There's no "Wally" at the end of the day... just a barbecue and a beer. When I pass someone -- I give them a friendly wave thanking them for letting me by.... and if I'm lucky enough to be able to be somewhat matched with someone - I'll go to their pit and thank them for letting me run with them. There's a guy with a 4 cylinder Turbo Thunderbird that runs regularly with us. He used to blow by me like I was in the wrong group... this time at Sonoma we ran several laps together - he pointed me by and I declined even though I was faster - I'd rather run and have fun with him - we each enjoyed the give and take - catching up or pulling away depending on which corner we were in. I then went to his trailer to thank him... he's a young guy and drives a great line... at Thunderhill this October - I promised him a session in the Lotus as he has admired it (even though we were running T-bird against Mustang). Given what he's driving - and his ability - he'd just rip the Lotus and I'd love to give him the chance. That's what makes this all fun. I don't really give a sh!t about lap times. On Saturday they were fast - on Sunday - for whatever reason - everyone was off by 2 to 4 seconds. Didn't feel like it - but that's what the watch said. Same people - same cars - different day. Weird.

[Vegas69]

It's fun either way, just more fun when you outrun Gae.:peepwall:

[GregWeld]

At T-Hill the sound meter is about 50 yards up the main straight from T-15 in the little building next to the fence in the pits. I believe what was happening to me in the Lotus was hitting the rev limiter in 3rd and the pop from the limiter spiked the meter. The motor/exhaust is quiet, add the wind noise from the open cockpit, and the motor pulls right through the limiter it's tough to gauge your shift point. A shift light would be handy in that little go kart.



You were with me when I bought the AiM Dash.... a shift light is in your future!

[GregWeld]

It's fun either way, just more fun when you outrun Gae.:peepwall:




That was the easy part. Since he couldn't catch or pass me - he'll rely on the one lap time that was faster than mine. The proof however - was the old fart pulling away from the orange crate.

[Ron Sutton]

Hey Guys ! I'll throw in a few tech comments ... just so we can say we're talking about cars & not having a BS Session. :)

Times are irrelevant in track days... mostly because no two cars are anywhere near "equal". Different motors - different size tires - different compound tires... That's just jerking off talk. The Lotus with it's 1.8 liter motor was faster... and the Mustang with it's skinny tires was slower... only at the point of when Ron choose to time the laps.
There were very few clean laps where drivers could lay down a "best time" in the green group. I think Gae & Greg would have both posted faster lap times with fewer rolling chicanes on the track. But hey ... it was just a fun "club track day" ... and those slower cars have just as much right to be out there having a blast too.

When Gae was trying to chase me the Mustang pulled on him like he was dragging an anchor. Doesn't matter.... it's all just so much BS. There's dozens of cars and drivers out there that are FAR faster and there's an equal amount that are easily passed... I only pass people if they're slower than I am - but it's not the way I keep track of my "progress" as a driver or how well the car is working (or not). If people keep track of that kind of stuff - then they're not having much fun just enjoying the "event" and the people and their own car. There's no "Wally" at the end of the day... just a barbecue and a beer.
Several beers. :cheers:

When I pass someone -- I give them a friendly wave thanking them for letting me by.... and if I'm lucky enough to be able to be somewhat matched with someone - I'll go to their pit and thank them for letting me run with them. There's a guy with a 4 cylinder Turbo Thunderbird that runs regularly with us. He used to blow by me like I was in the wrong group... this time at Sonoma we ran several laps together - he pointed me by and I declined even though I was faster - I'd rather run and have fun with him - we each enjoyed the give and take - catching up or pulling away depending on which corner we were in. I then went to his trailer to thank him... he's a young guy and drives a great line... at Thunderhill this October - I promised him a session in the Lotus as he has admired it (even though we were running T-bird against Mustang). Given what he's driving - and his ability - he'd just rip the Lotus and I'd love to give him the chance. That's what makes this all fun.
That was a great session with you & the T-bird running together.

I don't really give a sh!t about lap times. On Saturday they were fast - on Sunday - for whatever reason - everyone was off by 2 to 4 seconds. Didn't feel like it - but that's what the watch said. Same people - same cars - different day. Weird.

I was watching the weather with an app on my phone. There was massive humidity in the air (79%). Around lunch the temperature was only 6° from dew point. Most guys know at dew point ... actual dew drops form on the ground (or track surface in our case). But not everyone knows anytime the moisture content in the air is high (humidity) and the temperature is cool ... there is moisture constantly being applied to the track surface by the air. I watch how far the temperature is from dew point. Anytime it is within 10° ... it will significantly affect both track grip & engine power output.

So it took away grip from the track & affected all the cars power outputs. Most fell off 3-4 seconds. Some more.

[Greg from Aus]

It was a great afternoon on Sunday, we finally made it. It's good to be able to put a face to a name, and the smack talk is great. Sorry we couldn't make it Saturday and meet the rest of the crew,

The funniest part was seeing Greg change the booster seat over from the Mustang to the Lotus :peepwall:

[Track Junky]

That was the easy part. Since he couldn't catch or pass me - he'll rely on the one lap time that was faster than mine. The proof however - was the old fart pulling away from the orange crate.

Wow!! OK, lets bring on the drama. :lol: I'm sure you've noticed I never brought up the lap time. I never rely on anyone with a stop watch or I-phone to time my laps. Not accurate enough for me. I have an AMB transponder on my car and its been on there since I started Time Trials 9 years ago. I normally run NASA or NCRC events. All I do is register my transponder when I sign up for the event and presto.....mine and everybody elses lap times are taped up somewhere downstairs beneath the timing tower after the session.
All I remember is catching up to Greg coming out of the carousel, he pulled me heading to turn 7, we ran down the esses and then he pulled off because of a fuel pressure issue.
It was a great day and my car was handling flawlessly. I was passing every single car in front of me........almost like I was running in a NASA HPDE 3 group. Lets be honest.....that is fun as hell!!
Either way....don't care. I love breaking Greg's balls and I had a great time at the track.
I'm always up for a challenge so if Greg really wants to give me a run for my money he'll grow a pair, get a transponder, and run with an ameature club with a bit more experience. :mock:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Wow!! OK, lets bring on the drama. :lol: I'm sure you've noticed I never brought up the lap time. I never rely on anyone with a stop watch or I-phone to time my laps. Not accurate enough for me. I have an AMB transponder on my car and its been on there since I started Time Trials 9 years ago. I normally run NASA or NCRC events. All I do is register my transponder when I sign up for the event and presto.....mine and everybody elses lap times are taped up somewhere downstairs beneath the timing tower after the session.
All I remember is catching up to Greg coming out of the carousel, he pulled me heading to turn 7, we ran down the esses and then he pulled off because of a fuel pressure issue.
It was a great day and my car was handling flawlessly. I was passing every single car in front of me........almost like I was running in a NASA HPDE 3 group. Lets be honest.....that is fun as hell!!
Either way....don't care. I love breaking Greg's balls and I had a great time at the track.
I'm always up for a challenge so if Greg really wants to give me a run for my money he'll grow a pair, get a transponder, and run with an ameature club with a bit more experience. :mock:

...and here we go..... no way your wife is gonna let you mortgage the house man. let it gooooo.

[DBasher]

Real interested to see what you two come up with as far as brakes and suspension. I imagine the wheels and tires are to clear brakes and get 0 scrub?

RSRT 3 link
Big bearing spindles
Penske or JRI coil overs

I hope I'm close on some of this, especially the 3 link. I'd love to see how it's packaged and tied in.

After talking with Sean (Hackster) this weekend in Portland and seeing his LS Volvo it got me thinking.....a motors a motor, it could care less what its haulin around. I say LS, that way I can bug you with even more questions later on!

:gitrdun:
Dan

[GregWeld]

Ron will chime in when the menu is set... right now - we're in the measuring "as is" mode... but for sure it's getting new shocks (JRI's) - spindles - big bearings... ball joints.. bigger brakes and that requires wheels and tires...

Rear end is up in the air at the moment. This is nothing but a track car... there's little point in spending a bunch of money if it's only an incremental difference. So it's a balance of what needs to be done for safety... and get some handling improvements as well.

The motor will be diagnosed and a determination will then be made depending on how hurt it is. Ron and I both agree that the car doesn't need more motor... it needs a RELIABLE motor... which this one has proved not to be.





Real interested to see what you two come up with as far as brakes and suspension. I imagine the wheels and tires are to clear brakes and get 0 scrub?

RSRT 3 link
Big bearing spindles
Penske or JRI coil overs

I hope I'm close on some of this, especially the 3 link. I'd love to see how it's packaged and tied in.

After talking with Sean (Hackster) this weekend in Portland and seeing his LS Volvo it got me thinking.....a motors a motor, it could care less what its haulin around. I say LS, that way I can bug you with even more questions later on!

:gitrdun:
Dan

[GregWeld]

I just like hanging with my friends... the times are what they are - that's just not my hang up.

It was a fun weekend and we all had a great time! Until some Aussies showed up and then the sh!t started flowing. Good thing Greg brought April so we had to keep it "clean". LOL


Once again Ron Sutton's help was invaluable.. and any of you guys that are actually somewhat serious about this stuff should re-evaluate where you choose to piss your money away... and start hiring Ron to help (instead of thinking you're going to get all his knowledge for free). He will do way more for your car and your driving skills than throwing parts at the car and hoping that works.






Wow!! OK, lets bring on the drama. :lol: I'm sure you've noticed I never brought up the lap time. I never rely on anyone with a stop watch or I-phone to time my laps. Not accurate enough for me. I have an AMB transponder on my car and its been on there since I started Time Trials 9 years ago. I normally run NASA or NCRC events. All I do is register my transponder when I sign up for the event and presto.....mine and everybody elses lap times are taped up somewhere downstairs beneath the timing tower after the session.
All I remember is catching up to Greg coming out of the carousel, he pulled me heading to turn 7, we ran down the esses and then he pulled off because of a fuel pressure issue.
It was a great day and my car was handling flawlessly. I was passing every single car in front of me........almost like I was running in a NASA HPDE 3 group. Lets be honest.....that is fun as hell!!
Either way....don't care. I love breaking Greg's balls and I had a great time at the track.
I'm always up for a challenge so if Greg really wants to give me a run for my money he'll grow a pair, get a transponder, and run with an ameature club with a bit more experience. :mock:

[Flash68]

That is a definite option at this point Mike. This motor didn't like Charley and it certainly doesn't like me. But I also have no idea what is wrong this time.. so will wait to pull the plug.

Please please don't put an LS in that thing and lose the raw awesomeness that the car has and doesn't deserve to lose.

I'm beyond certain RS can spec a reliable non-LS motor for that car. I think he's what you call... "been there done that."

:waveflag:

[GregWeld]

Please please don't put an LS in that thing and lose the raw awesomeness that the car has and doesn't deserve to lose.

I'm beyond certain RS can spec a reliable non-LS motor for that car. I think he's what you call... "been there done that."

:waveflag:




No way buddy!! I was thinking SB2.....

[Ron Sutton]

No way buddy!! I was thinking SB2.....


LOL :lol:


No Way ... Let's put that TRD NASCAR Truck engine in it! :)

Just kiddin' ... of course. With 245 tires ... the 590hp it has/had is plenty.

[GregWeld]

LOL :lol:


No Way ... Let's put that TRD NASCAR Truck engine in it! :)

Just kiddin' ... of course. With 245 tires ... the 590hp it has/had is plenty.







That TRD --- derated.... oh yeah!



What's that thing worth 75 grand?

[Chassisworks]

I would love to see a Toyota in a Ford. Alex at Big Head Motorsports had an RB26DETT in an early Camaro for a while. I love seeing cars that p-off the purists.

[Ron Sutton]

That TRD --- derated.... oh yeah!



What's that thing worth 75 grand?

Gosh ... back when they were new & the hot package to run ... they were $55,000 ... a race ... on a lease deal. Now, they don't run that engine anymore ... so a guy can probably get a nearly new/fresh one for $20-25k. Of course worn out junk is out there for a lot less.

But rebuilds are killer. Too often & too much! Hey ... that sounds familiar. :lol:

:cheers:

[Sieg]

Ouch!

[GregWeld]

Gosh ... back when they were new & the hot package to run ... they were $55,000 ... a race ... on a lease deal. Now, they don't run that engine anymore ... so a guy can probably get a nearly new/fresh one for $20-25k. Of course worn out junk is out there for a lot less.

But rebuilds are killer. Too often & too much! Hey ... that sounds familiar. :lol:

:cheers:






It gets old real quick!!


Pete is here in Sun Valley -- and came down to the shop today. He was having all manor of valve train issues with his 347 (same cubic inch as mine) and finally put a 6300 chip in the MSD and hasn't had any problems since. Maybe it's all my doing IDK.

[GregWeld]

I would love to see a Toyota in a Ford. Alex at Big Head Motorsports had an RB26DETT in an early Camaro for a while. I love seeing cars that p-off the purists.




Go see the car over at BMR Carl.... and take some rags -- some of your stuff is getting kinda greasy! Only because the current owner is a lazy pig... The parts work great!

[Vegas69]

I'd say more cubes so you can make it less rowdy. A quality engine should go a season and then need maintenance, not rebuilt. I wouldn't want to give up much rpm for road racing. How tight are you spinning it?

[Vegas69]

It gets old real quick!!


Pete is here in Sun Valley -- and came down to the shop today. He was having all manor of valve train issues with his 347 (same cubic inch as mine) and finally put a 6300 chip in the MSD and hasn't had any problems since. Maybe it's all my doing IDK.

If I can spin a big block 6800 countless times, that little small block should do it all day.

[GregWeld]

I'd say more cubes so you can make it less rowdy. A quality engine should go a season and then need maintenance, not rebuilt. I wouldn't want to give up much rpm for road racing. How tight are you spinning it?




I think I have a 7000 chip in the MSD -- but it might be less -- and I've NEVER hit the limiter. The Lotus I hit all the time - because I can't hear it with my new helmet (has communications built in and the ears are quiet as hell).



If I can spin a big block 6800 countless times, that little small block should do it all day.



I think that motor - with it's titanium valve train - and built by a top notch builder -- should run for 4 years of track days doing nothing but adjusting the solid lifters.... So either I'm doing something to it - damned if I know what - or there's some geometry issue that isn't being caught. Thus a fresh set of eyeballs will be in order. Unless I broke it real good.... and in that case a new motor will fit the bill --- or be on my bill! LOL

[Vegas69]

First thing that comes to mind is the titanium valves are causing you problems. Seems overkill for a small block with a 7k chip. If it doesn't have shaft mounted rockers, that's a must. I'd say the titanium valves warrant setting the valves HOT. Who knows what happens at road racing temps. I'm just throwing things out there. Me, I'd put a less radical combo in it or let Ron go through the entire engine.

[clill]

It gets old real quick!!


Pete is here in Sun Valley -- and came down to the shop today. He was having all manor of valve train issues with his 347 (same cubic inch as mine) and finally put a 6300 chip in the MSD and hasn't had any problems since. Maybe it's all my doing IDK.

347 ????

[GregWeld]

First thing that comes to mind is the titanium valves are causing you problems. Seems overkill for a small block with a 7k chip. If it doesn't have shaft mounted rockers, that's a must. I'd say the titanium valves warrant setting the valves HOT. Who knows what happens at road racing temps. I'm just throwing things out there. Me, I'd put a less radical combo in it or let Ron go through the entire engine.




It has shaft rockers.....

[GregWeld]

347 ????



I think that's what it is.... but damned if I really know.

[craig510]

This would make a nice addition.

[GregWeld]

I think that's what it is.... but damned if I really know.



Jack Mauer says the motor is a 356 cubic inch

I seem to remember the numbers working out to be 355

[Vegas69]

Well, it's apparent why Charlie struck you such a sweet deal. :D

[Sieg]

Jack Mauer says the motor is a 356 cubic inch

I seem to remember the numbers working out to be 355

Previously I've heard 355, then 347. :headscratch:

It's a small revvie Ford with a very good power curve...........when it's running. :bang:

[Flash68]

4.082 bore x 3.4 stroke = 355.963

356 FTW!

[GregWeld]

Thanks Dave! The paperwork is down at the shop so I couldn't go find it. That's the problem with a shop where you can't just walk out your back door! Everything you need is there when you're not!


356 is it.


FWIW -- They dyno the motor to 7500 and I know I've never gotten near that. No good reason why it shouldn't be bullet proof.

[Vegas69]

4.082 bore x 3.4 stroke = 355.963

356 FTW!

And we thought he was a just a numb nuts that married up...

[SSLance]

I know this probably won't be the popular opinion on this board (given all of the 7,000 rpm engines on jack stands around here :D ), but I'm of the opinion that an engine that makes peak power at a lower RPM is easier to drive on the track than a higher revving engine.

Here's my case... It's easier to get on and off the gas smoothly at say 3000-4000 rpm than at 6500 rpm... This leads to less surprising of the tires and more maintaining of grip easier.

My little truck motor that makes peak power between 2000 and 4000 RPM is a dream to drive, you just have to shift into a higher gear faster. It may get outrun on the straights a bit...but when back in the twistys it makes it all back up again by keeping the rear tires under the car instead of having to pedal it every time out of a corner. Plus (and this is a BIG plus) it's a LOT easier on all of the parts not twisting them so high lap after lap after lap...

Just a thought... Sorry you broke your car Greg, hopefully the carnage is minimal and it'll be back on the track soon.

[GregWeld]

For road racing I like high revving motors and don't want a torque motor... it's easier to drive at high speeds with a motor that's not trying to break the tires loose on exit. Nothing sounds better than a high revving stroker motor screaming for mercy. Not saying the 355 isn't making torque...





http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/Mustang.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/Mustang.jpg.html)

[GregWeld]

And we thought he was a just a numb nuts that married up...







It didn't change my opinion of him one bit......

[Sieg]

Certainly looks reliable......
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Gp5MMzT/0/XL/i-Gp5MMzT-XL.jpg

[GregWeld]

That SOB has the death rattle.....

[Flash68]

And we thought he was a just a numb nuts that married up...

Keeping thinking that because it's true! :thankyou:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Greg, that line running over the header area, that's a return line no, or is it to a fuel gauge isolator?

[Ron Sutton]

Greg, that line running over the header area, that's a return line no, or is it to a fuel gauge isolator?

It is a fuel gauge isolator. There is no return line.

[Vegas69]

Oil pressure SUCKS! 45 psi at 7500 rpm

Attached mine for comparison.

[Flash68]

^^ What a happy dyno that is.

:action-smiley-027:

[GregWeld]

^^ What a happy dyno that is.

:action-smiley-027:




His one and only claim to fame..... One and done.

[Panteracer]

Most of the fast Shelby boys run tony Otto 331's
With approx 500 hp and 500 lbs of torque they spin them to
7000 or 7200. You need to change the springs almost every year
if you track a lot and spin it,,,

347 out of a 302 not good. Piston wrist pin hangs half way out
Of the cylinder on the down stroke ... will rock and break things
If you want to rev it. 6000 max with a 347 to make it live
I know as I scattered one on front straight of thunderhill

I agree with Weld (can't believe I am saying that:)
There is nothing like a high spinning stroker singing in your ear

Panteracer

[chetly]

This would make a nice addition.

I recognize that suspension. It currently has a Roush Yates motor between the shock towers, not the coyote.

[DBasher]

Nothing, never mind.

[Sieg]

One of the highlights of the NorCal Shelby Mini Nats trip was dropping the Mustang off at BMR Racing and getting a tour of the shop and mini education seminar with Ron Sutton. Thanks Ron for being a great host. :thumbsup:

I'll let the camera doing the talking.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-9Kz5QBb/1/X2/i-9Kz5QBb-X2.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-GvcS45n/0/XL/i-GvcS45n-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-dLRXhhw/0/XL/i-dLRXhhw-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-q92J7dT/0/XL/i-q92J7dT-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-bxvrHVj/0/X2/i-bxvrHVj-X2.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-5f2BmbR/0/X2/i-5f2BmbR-X2.jpg

[Sieg]

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-hVLKqGt/0/XL/i-hVLKqGt-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-6cF397x/0/XL/i-6cF397x-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-9ZwRST8/0/X2/i-9ZwRST8-X2.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-6SgP2XD/0/XL/i-6SgP2XD-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8BMxvcX/0/XL/i-8BMxvcX-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8tgkgbz/0/XL/i-8tgkgbz-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-P622VT2/0/XL/i-P622VT2-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-35B84Xx/0/XL/i-35B84Xx-XL.jpg

[glassman]

Nice pics Sieg. Thats a class organization right there, i dig how organized everything is, gave me some ideas for my own office/shop.....

[Sieg]

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-RzGzKjv/0/XL/i-RzGzKjv-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-3WSr899/0/XL/i-3WSr899-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-vTRBptg/0/XL/i-vTRBptg-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-GbTFLk8/0/XL/i-GbTFLk8-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7SX5thj/0/XL/i-7SX5thj-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-jXvdzd3/0/XL/i-jXvdzd3-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-nDb2TsD/0/XL/i-nDb2TsD-XL.jpg

[Sieg]

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-rKm4nxB/0/XL/i-rKm4nxB-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-DX4N2DN/0/XL/i-DX4N2DN-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-BG3Ktww/0/XL/i-BG3Ktww-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-ZVKqH4z/0/X2/i-ZVKqH4z-X2.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-hT78k3t/0/XL/i-hT78k3t-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-p6tQvs2/0/XL/i-p6tQvs2-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-x4kkV36/0/XL/i-x4kkV36-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-46zGQ2V/0/XL/i-46zGQ2V-XL.jpg

[Sieg]

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-ZDHrCFM/0/XL/i-ZDHrCFM-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-qvFPNFz/0/XL/i-qvFPNFz-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-kMnF5Kw/0/XL/i-kMnF5Kw-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-STFx56S/0/XL/i-STFx56S-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-SBt86Jn/1/XL/i-SBt86Jn-XL.jpg

[intocarss]

I see a lot of stuff in there I could use

[SSLance]

Someone is gettin' edjumacated here... :rules: :D


http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-rKm4nxB/0/XL/i-rKm4nxB-XL.jpg


Great shots Sieg, I could spend hours in there walking around drooling, love looking at a shop in that kind of order... :drool:

[GregWeld]

....... So in fewer words.... the little yellow POS is in a REAL RACE SHOP where people actually know a couple things about handling and braking... and the work is being directed by a guy that knows just a couple things about handling and braking.

[Ron Sutton]

Great Shots Sieg!

That black truck of Bill McAnally's is pretty special. The engine, trans & rear end is out of a Dale Earnhardt Cup car & all the suspension is stock car racing stuff. Bill is good friends with Richard Childress and got it from him after Dale's death.

The white contraption to the right of Greg Weld's car is a pull down machine where we simulate suspension dive & roll to test travel, geometry & tire loading. (Not to be confused with a 7-post shaker.)

:cheers:

[GregWeld]

Living proof that Racin' gives you grey hair.... and that CheeseBalls are probably a poor substitute for nutritious salads (without dressing). Note: It's obvious that I just started racin' as my hair is "turning" grey... Both Charley and Ron are fully greyed out... and sit-ups are in my future. LOL








http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-rKm4nxB/0/XL/i-rKm4nxB-XL.jpg

[Rick D]

Ok that's some cool stuff right there!! And that C10 wow :confused59: very cool.

Good luck Greg, hope it doesn't cost you the price of a small house to get it back out on the track!

[chetly]

Did you see the size of those front calipers?! They are wider than some peoples wheels on their cars!!!

[Ron Sutton]

Did you see the size of those front calipers?! They are wider than some peoples wheels on their cars!!!

And you don't even want to know what a full set of these brakes cost.

:confused59:

[chetly]

Guessing 8-10k for the calipers alone.

[Ron Sutton]

Guessing 8-10k for the calipers alone.

More. $30k for whole set-up new.

[GregWeld]

Ok that's some cool stuff right there!! And that C10 wow :confused59: very cool.

Good luck Greg, hope it doesn't cost you the price of a small house to get it back out on the track!




Too late!!!

[intocarss]

Too late!!! YOU need to start an "Upgrade thread" :warning: :hello:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

yep!

[GregWeld]

YOU need to start an "Upgrade thread" :warning: :hello:

yep!




Nope.... Not posting anything other than we're doing things.... It's our secret and if you want to know how to do this stuff -- you ain't getting what I'm paying for - for free. Go fish.

[rustomatic]

If I'd only known you were going there... This guy's main driver is my in-law... We talk cars at Christmas to alienate everyone else...

One of the highlights of the NorCal Shelby Mini Nats trip was dropping the Mustang off at BMR Racing and getting a tour of the shop and mini education seminar with Ron Sutton. Thanks Ron for being a great host. :thumbsup:

I'll let the camera doing the talking.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-9Kz5QBb/1/X2/i-9Kz5QBb-X2.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-GvcS45n/0/XL/i-GvcS45n-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-dLRXhhw/0/XL/i-dLRXhhw-XL.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-q92J7dT/0/XL/i-q92J7dT-XL.jpg

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http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-5f2BmbR/0/X2/i-5f2BmbR-X2.jpg

[clill]

Nope.... Not posting anything other than we're doing things.... It's our secret and if you want to know how to do this stuff -- you ain't getting what I'm paying for - for free. Go fish.

Don't be a dick or we will boot you.

[GregWeld]

Don't be a dick or we will boot you.




Too late.

[Track Junky]

I don't care how much brake and power you throw at it. If he doesn't get wider tires on it it will be all for nothing.
Done before T-Hill in October.......not going to happen.

Not unless they make off the shelf flares :unibrow:

[GregWeld]

By the way -- I'm being serious. Ron runs a business. I'm a paying customer. I'm willing to pay for his expertise to help me with the car. He already shares an awful lot, and gives an awful lot of his knowledge away on here as it is. I don't see any reason for me to foot the bill for measurements to dissect what I already have - and then to pay to formulate improvements... for some other shop etc to lift their ability and sell the sauce they get for nothing.

Buying off the shelf parts is a different story and in that case everyone is helpful to everyone else interested in knowing how those parts work. Discussing a motor etc is one thing -- just don't ask the builder to tell you everything he knows about how he arrived at his numbers... Parts are parts - how they're put together and clearances etc is their formula.


This is my decision by the way - not Ron's... I've already discussed with him what I think of him giving away valuable info. I just think it's not right for people to expect to get so much expertise for free. That kind of expertise takes YEARS to get... it's how he makes his living. People should man up and be willing to do business with him if they want the kind of improvements he can give a guy.

[GregWeld]

I don't care how much brake and power you throw at it. If he doesn't get wider tires on it it will be all for nothing.
Done before T-Hill in October.......not going to happen.

Not unless they make off the shelf flares :unibrow:



It's a real shop -- they're used to turning cars around to get 'em to the next event...

The problem - which they didn't sign on for - could be the motor and what it needs. That remains to be seen.

[chetly]

I don't care how much brake and power you throw at it. If he doesn't get wider tires on it it will be all for nothing.
Done before T-Hill in October.......not going to happen.

Not unless they make off the shelf flares :unibrow:

Maier has flares available. Remember his blue car runs 315's square. Wouldn't be hard to get more tire under the car.

[Track Junky]

Maier has flares available. Remember his blue car runs 315's square. Wouldn't be hard to get more tire under the car.

That would be the right direction for Greg to go IMO.

[carbuff]

Greg,

I'll second all you said about Ron. I haven't posted all of this up yet, but I've also been working with him on TOW. I'll get the details up soon, but I'm amazed at how generous he is with his time and his knowledge! It's been a complete pleasure to talk to and learn from him...

For anyone looking to step up their ride and their knowledge, spend some money with him. You will NOT be disappointed!!!

[GregWeld]

Maier has flares available. Remember his blue car runs 315's square. Wouldn't be hard to get more tire under the car.



I want to run on skinnies.... I think that keeps the spirit of what we (Charley - Chet and Pete etc) are trying to do. The changes I'm making are more for a "because" -- and I just feel better with stouter stuff in the car. Upgrading brakes is a matter of trying to get a bit of the feeling the Lotus has entering corners. It just hauls down so quickly it's insane. Obviously in a car that weighs twice as much we're not going to get there - but it's just a good feeling to really have the brakes working well. The suspension changes are a "why wouldn't you" while you're there kind of thing. The car actually goes pretty good as it is... and is fun to drive. I don't need more power.

I think it's hard to explain until you've driven something that is so capable like the Lotus. Then you want just a little of that - in the Mustang etc.

Ron improved the handling so much with such a few simple things -- that it shows you that with a bit more planning and some execution - the car could be that much more -- which for me - is mostly about making it more fun to drive.

In the meantime - I don't want to try to make it something it's not. It's a neat car - that drives pretty well and looks pretty good as is.

When you drive the Lotus -- you can run at about 75% you can take a look at a corner just about anywhere you want to put it. At 80% you can just about outrun anything on the track. What I want from the Mustang is to be able to run WITH the similar cars on the track -- while also feeling really comfortable and not working real hard to do it. That's when you climb out of the car with a big smile on your face and say "man that was fun!".

[clill]

Did anyone bother to take the 1 minute it would take to pull a valve cover ? Yes I agree on engine builder secrets but general changes, parts etc are things that are shared and what sites like this are about . Guys like Stielow show in great detail what they do....FOR FREE !!!! That is what the site is about ! I built a site for a 70 Z28 "FOR FREE" so people could see the correct details on a orig car. Others would have written a book and charged for it. The biggest advancement you could make to make that car go faster would be to hire someone like Rick McCormick at the next track day to ride with you. The car is faster than most as it is. Stielow drove that car at Thunderhill and loved it. And he was fast ! That car could be made street legal in a day. I sold my other yellow Mustang track car because it was too much of where you are headed with that one. You further upsize all the crap like suspension, brakes, wheels, tires etc and you will need a full cage. Then you can have the joy of climbing in and out the window. This is the Shelby Club we are running with. My 66 Shelby has been a race car it's entire life and a championship winning car and it has Ford front disk and drum rear. It runs fine for what we do.

[chetly]

Running on narrower tires is going to be your limiting factor. Doesn't do any good to put huge brakes like the chassis you were standing next to when the tires can't do the work to stop the car. Driving Mike Maiers coupe with the nascar motor in it with the old setup and 275's vs the new setup with the 315's, it's amazing how much deeper you can go into the corners and still slow down and turn.

But I get it, your trying to keep it with the look of vintage trans-am vs the newer pro touring look. I just question if your going to be able to get the brake feel any where close to the Lotus being the size of tire and car are like comparing apples to pineapples...

[GregWeld]

No reason to pull a valve cover --- it's why you talked me into a back up car! I just jumped in it and off I went! LOL



Mark is free to give away what HE develops and does on his own... and we're all happy for it. HE does NOT give away what others do. I am not going to give away Ron's information. This is how the man makes his living. I'm not free to take his living away from him.


As for running fine... totally agree... but I'm a hot rodder thru and thru. Whatever I've ever had - the goal is to make it better. It's the way I like to do things.




Did anyone bother to take the 1 minute it would take to pull a valve cover ? Yes I agree on engine builder secrets but general changes, parts etc are things that are shared and what sites like this are about . Guys like Stielow show in great detail what they do....FOR FREE !!!! That is what the site is about ! I built a site for a 70 Z28 "FOR FREE" so people could see the correct details on a orig car. Others would have written a book and charged for it. The biggest advancement you could make to make that car go faster would be to hire someone like Rick McCormick at the next track day to ride with you. The car is faster than most as it is. Stielow drove that car at Thunderhill and loved it. And he was fast ! That car could be made street legal in a day. I sold my other yellow Mustang track car because it was too much of where you are headed with that one. You further upsize all the crap like suspension, brakes, wheels, tires etc and you will need a full cage. Then you can have the joy of climbing in and out the window. This is the Shelby Club we are running with. My 66 Shelby has been a race car it's entire life and a championship winning car and it has Ford front disk and drum rear. It runs fine for what we do.

[GregWeld]

So there's the whole point. Ron is a PROFESSIONAL... the car will get the brakes that are appropriate. They'll be an improvement. We talked about the rear suspension and his statement was - that would be an improvement but probably not worth the expense... SO what I'm trying to say is -- nobody is more aware than we are of the limitations... or the goals. I'm not putting 315 squares on the car but we will look at what tire can be used. The goal is more fun ----- not proving anything. I enjoy learning - and I enjoy improving... and I like doing. For me personally - there's more to this than just changing the oil and running the car. It's about mechanics - learning what and why we're doing something - limitations - options. The car has no history - it's not a historic car - it's something Jack Mauer built. It's been changed and improved upon. I have no personal history how old any of the parts are - where they came from - how they've been maintained... and this is all a part of what we're doing. Checking the car from top to bottom... improving where it makes sense... making good - better if possible. It is what we all live to do.







Running on narrower tires is going to be your limiting factor. Doesn't do any good to put huge brakes like the chassis you were standing next to when the tires can't do the work to stop the car. Driving Mike Maiers coupe with the nascar motor in it with the old setup and 275's vs the new setup with the 315's, it's amazing how much deeper you can go into the corners and still slow down and turn.

But I get it, your trying to keep it with the look of vintage trans-am vs the newer pro touring look. I just question if your going to be able to get the brake feel any where close to the Lotus being the size of tire and car are like comparing apples to pineapples...

[SSLance]

I was able to outbrake similar sized cars running 13" brakes and 315\335s with my little 10.5" brakes and 275s at Gateway...and do it more comfortably and securely at the same time. The trick is having everything matched and working in sync with one another, geometry, shocks, springs, brakes, tires, etc...

Enjoy the ride Greg, not only are you going learn a ton but you are also going to get to reap the rewards after with an excellent handling car.

I do agree with Charley on one thing though, once you get it set up...do an event with an instructor in the car that can teach you how to get the most out of what you've got. That's what I've spent most of this year doing, working on the driver instead of the car...and it's really paying off.

[Ron Sutton]

Wow! Greg you're getting a lot of heat for making improvements to your Track Toy.

Guys, I'd like to ask everyone to relax a bit ... enjoy an adult beverage ... and not worry too much. Maybe because I'm involved some folks might think we're doing a major upgrade or makeover to the car ... which is not even remotely accurate. Greg asked me to make his Mustang more fun to drive. So better braking & more grip are on the agenda. Nothing major ... just some shock & brake changes.

The current braking is sub-par. The calipers have too small of piston area, requiring super aggressive pads & it still doesn't stop as well as it could. Currently Greg is experiencing cracking & excessive rotor wear along with constant brake pad replacement. We're going to calipers with more piston area, allowing us to run gentler pads for longer life & less rotor wear. Larger diameter & wider rotors made of Wilwood's Spec-37 iron allow the brakes to stay cool & last longer.

Having more grip makes the car more fun. So we're changing to shocks with my special high grip valving. That's it. No high travel un-obtanium trick suspensions. I suggested we make the car safer too. So we're installing floater hubs on the rear housing & larger, stronger, safer spindles & hubs in the front. Plus some stronger Howe ball joints. If ... if ... if there is room to put a smidge wider tire on the car, we'll do that. But it will be minor.

Now I can't speak for Greg's goals down the road. He may want to undo the radiator cap & slide a Trans Am race car under it. But that is not what we're doing here.

So everyone ... relax, breathe ... LOL

:cheers:

[chetly]

Special high grip valving? Hmm, sounds like you've been talking to Maier. He likes to use those technical terms also... LOL

[GregWeld]

Dang it Ron! I don't want to give these guys ANY info!


Nothing - nada - zip.

[GregWeld]

Just got off the phone with Mister Bill McAnally the owner of BMR Racing. Talk about a nice guy!! I wished I'd have met him when we dropped the car off... but I will meet him at some point.

He thanked me for my business... He called ME. Not often the owner of a shop like this is going to pick up the phone to call a small time guy like me. I appreciate that kind of "service" and it tells me a lot about the integrity of his business.

He liked the Mustang... and said they were already pulling off measurements and then would pull the motor and get into it to see where we'd be going with that anchor. I'd like to hear it's minor but to be honest - it didn't sound minor... and I was hauling the mail when whatever it was let go.. that usually doesn't work out real well. High RPMS and moving pieces not being where they belong or moving in the manor they're supposed to. HAHAHAHAHAHA. 'Tis what it 'tis.

[clill]

Better brakes sound great Ron but what was on there are better than most of the old iron at our events and neither Jack or me had problems with them. That car was a Caddilac compared to my other Mustangs, Bigger brakes, power Rack and pinion steering, Jerico 4 speed. It will be interesting to see what let loose in the engine. Actually I should call McAnally and have him weld the door shut just to force the Ewok to climb in and out the window.:stirthepot:

[GregWeld]

Better brakes sound great Ron but what was on there are better than most of the old iron at our events and neither Jack or me had problems with them. That car was a Caddilac compared to my other Mustangs, Bigger brakes, power Rack and pinion steering, Jerico 4 speed. It will be interesting to see what let loose in the engine. Actually I should call McAnally and have him weld the door shut just to force the Ewok to climb in and out the window.:stirthepot:



Don't buy Stielow's next build... it has improvements in it. LOL

[Rick D]

Better brakes sound great Ron but what was on there are better than most of the old iron at our events and neither Jack or me had problems with them. That car was a Caddilac compared to my other Mustangs, Bigger brakes, power Rack and pinion steering, Jerico 4 speed. It will be interesting to see what let loose in the engine. Actually I should call McAnally and have him weld the door shut just to force the Ewok to climb in and out the window.:stirthepot:

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Greg I think he jumps on here just to give you sh!t!! :lol:

[fleetus macmullitz]

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Greg I think he jumps on here just to give you sh!t!! :lol:

Yep, that's the long and the short of it.


:walkingdog:

[GregWeld]

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Greg I think he jumps on here just to give you sh!t!! :lol:



This ain't nuthin' honey --- you should hear the track smack. It's OMG.... relentless.

When he's talkin' -- all I hear is BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

[Sieg]

Yep, that's the TALL and the short of it.


:walkingdog:

Fixed it for ya Skippah.

........pretty sure GW's the first guy to ever be called an Ewok on Lat-G. :sieg:

[GregWeld]

Actually I should call McAnally and have him weld the door shut just to force the Ewok to climb in and out the window.:stirthepot:



How 'bout you call him and give him a shipping address where I can return your motor... for a credit. Now we're getting somewhere! LOL

I called Bill and he's got his cell phone waiting for your call.

[Ron Sutton]

Dang it Ron! I don't want to give these guys ANY info!


Nothing - nada - zip.

What about the angular contact, micro film coated, REM polished, ceramic based, laser guided shifter bearings ?

[fleetus macmullitz]

What about the angular contact, micro film coated, REM polished, ceramic based, laser guided shifter bearings ?



I like it...but that ain't 'text train friendly'...


:D

[GregWeld]

What about the angular contact, micro film coated, REM polished, ceramic based, laser guided shifter bearings ?





Oh great! Now when Big G can't catch me he's got another excuse to use.... can we just make two sets and give him one? Hope Charley doesn't see this.

[Track Junky]

Oh great! Now when Big G can't catch me he's got another excuse to use.... can we just make two sets and give him one? Hope Charley doesn't see this.

You and I are running along the same plane only on different planets and it appears you are currently on Fantasy Island :lol:

Just kidding Greg. I'm all for what you are doing for all the reasons you have stated and a good education doesn't always come cheap. I for one am looking forward to next seasons T-Hill and Sonoma events but I'm no different then you are. Don't think that your car is the only one getting a manicure. :unibrow:

[intocarss]

You and I are running along the same plane only on different planets and it appears you are currently on Fantasy Island :lol:

Just kidding Greg. I'm all for what you are doing for all the reasons you have stated and a good education doesn't always come cheap. I for one am looking forward to next seasons T-Hill and Sonoma events but I'm no different then you are. Don't think that your car is the only one getting a manicure. :unibrow:You're putting a Ford Mod motor in it huh !!??!!?? ;) :lostmarbles:

[intocarss]

What about the angular contact, micro film coated, REM polished, ceramic based, laser guided shifter bearings ?

You should look into those new self propelled wheel bearings too

[GregWeld]

You're putting a Ford Mod motor in it huh !!??!!?? ;) :lostmarbles:



Even I wouldn't do that!!




You should look into those new self propelled wheel bearings too





Charley said there's nothing wrong with the ones we already have in there.

[GregWeld]

By the way ----- I have to put a disclaimer in this thread and make sure everyone that's reading understands the nature of the relationships here. Charley loves me or he wouldn't put a "Weld sucks" icon as his picture... and I kinda sorta like him -- oh hell -- I actually respect him... and we have a blast together at the track etc. Ditto Gaetano...

There is NOTHING WRONG with the Mustang. Nothing. I don't want anyone to read into this that the car isn't sorted or really well squared away and needs some fixing. It is - as Charley says - faster and more capable than most of the cars we run with. I drive it like a baby - because I'm still new at this... and quite frankly -- I don't judge myself or the car by how many people I passed "this session". I really just don't care. I have a sh!t eating grin when I get out of the car every session.

I'm doing the things to the car for a couple reasons:

I want to drive easier and be faster going easier.

I want 1/4 in the Mustang - handling wise - that the little Lotus has.

Unless you've driven something like the Lotus on track you won't really comprehend. That little POS is just a master at handling. That makes it fast(er) because you can just kind of sit back and let it flow.

My driving style is perhaps a little on the "aggressive" side once we get all warmed up and get going.... I have the power to close gaps rather smartly... a couple times almost a little too smartly... and while the brakes are okay (fine) - I'm looking for more of the "tap" and you're hauled down right now. I make a lot of driving mistakes out there... it happens... we aren't doing that many events that you get comfortable. I'd like to make those mistakes a little more forgiving and a little less oh sh!t. I'm ADD (truly) and it's not hard for me to be distracted and throw a late downshift - or go Oh hell... I'm off line... and need to reel it back in. I totally get that I'm not "the Stig".

A car that is more capable than the driver allows for some wiggle room.... which makes it more fun... That's kinda what I'm going for. Some wiggle room for now.... and when the seat time gets more mature... the car will be something that's more than just "fine" but keeping in the confines of what we are doing and the other guys we run with.

Hope that makes sense. :wacko:

[clill]

You still suck:warning: :lol:

[GregWeld]

You still suck:warning: :lol:



Fine.....

[GregWeld]

You're just sorry you sold me the car... and you know you want it back. LOL




This car is bad ass folks.... it sounds good - it looks good... and it works fine. I love it or I wouldn't be trying to make it just a little better. I've honestly owned several cars that I drove around the block and sold for a loss (Charley knows our common friend that would verify I've done that and not even gone a full block!)



You can drool all you want to.....





http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/IMG_1467.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/IMG_1467.jpg.html)

[Sieg]

I have a sh!t eating grin when I get out of the car every session.
Agreed........except for that last session.

[DBasher]

I thought it was done after the "hook" got installed, man you were just getting warmed up! Everything you guys are doing makes sense, stronger and safer, nothing wrong with that.

Curious still on the motor, it sounds badass but that doesn't mean anything if it's getting parked because of problems.

This thread is better than MavTV and Street Outlaws!:lmao:

Dan

[Flash68]

Wow! Greg you're getting a lot of heat for making improvements to your Track Toy.

Guys, I'd like to ask everyone to relax a bit

nah... he dishes it regularly so he can sit here and take it in kind. :stirthepot:

and I was hauling the mail when whatever it was let go..

That definitely contradicts what Gaetano told me. :sieg:




You can drool all you want to.....





http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/IMG_1467.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/IMG_1467.jpg.html)

Man... what a bummer... someone took 2 sets of "big n littles" and put the 4 littles on your car! :bang:

[GregWeld]

Agreed........except for that last session.



When that kind of stuff happens -- is when I truly think "man I'm glad Gwen earned a good living".... That way it's annoying... but not life ending. LOL




I thought it was done after the "hook" got installed, man you were just getting warmed up! Everything you guys are doing makes sense, stronger and safer, nothing wrong with that.

Curious still on the motor, it sounds badass but that doesn't mean anything if it's getting parked because of problems.

This thread is better than MavTV and Street Outlaws!:lmao:

Dan



You must have read my MavTV post.... LOL

I've had enough motors -- broken enough motors - that the sounds are usually quite clear. This time - I honestly have no idea...

I want you to know - I thanked you every time I hung the wheel up.





nah... he dishes it regularly so he can sit here and take it in kind. :stirthepot:



That definitely contradicts what Gaetano told me. :sieg:



Man... what a bummer... someone took 2 sets of "big n littles" and put the 4 littles on your car! :bang:




Hey! Didn't your Mother ever teach you - TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE A RIGHT??


Who's Gaetano? It's hard to know what hauling the mail is - if you've never done it..... EEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA



So here's what I'd love to know. What's the gription of a set of skinny Hoosier A6's compared to a fatter set of 200 TW tires. Would be kind of an interesting test. I would like to think the 245's are pretty sticky by comparison. Maybe Ron has an idea but I doubt it's something his racing days would have dealt with.

[fleetus macmullitz]

Ron: 'We'll tell Charlie we're only making the most minute of changes.'





:thankyou:

[GregWeld]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Skippers! That's better than perfect!!

[SSLance]

I can offer this comparison up... Last season I autocrossed on gently used 275/60/16 Hoosier A6s and this season I autocrossed on 200 TW 275/40/17 Falkens. The tire's overall size were almost exactly the same.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-P41EHMWaB0U/UweeNREtwFI/AAAAAAAAMyw/vWuHlYC1RR0/w999-h563-no/IMG_20140221_124251_779.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-rzPwp83iPoU/UweeBvKaSDI/AAAAAAAAOes/jiuQIVIppsM/w999-h563-no/IMG_20140221_124222_696.jpg

When the Falkens were new, they were very close in grip to the gently used A6s but the car was easier to drive on the Falkens. The Falkens talk to you when the grip is starting to go away, the Hoosier's grip just goes away without warning. The car also felt more stable on the Falkens, but that might have a lot to do with the 40 series sidewall vs the 60 series on the Hoosiers.

They used to say that R Comps were good for a 2-3 second advantage on a 50 second autocross run over Street tires but with the advancements in 200 TW tires as of late, they area much closer than that now.

[fleetus macmullitz]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Skippers! That's better than perfect!!

Thanks Greg...We are very glad that C h a r l i e started this thread.

:D

[syborg tt]

I figured I would just talk about how nice looking this car is and it looks fast sitting still and I need to see a good side shot of this car as I love the Silver on the yellow.

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/IMG_1467.jpg[/IMG] (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/IMG_1467.jpg.html)

[clill]

I want my POS car back.

[fleetus macmullitz]

I want my POS car back.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:


:lol:

[GregWeld]

I want my POS car back.




Get in line......

[GregWeld]

I figured I would just talk about how nice looking this car is and it looks fast sitting still and I need to see a good side shot of this car as I love the Silver on the yellow.




Gaetano was GOING TO take a side shot but never got there....



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Oh gawd I crack myself up!

[syborg tt]

Gaetano was GOING TO take a side shot but never got there....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Oh gawd I crack myself up!


Just curious is that because he was behind you on the track or in front of you ?

[GregWeld]

Just curious is that because he was behind you on the track or in front of you ?




All he could see was taillights.



But then again -- we only played that game for about half a lap. All the jousting is just that - jousting.


When people are on track -- and there's 25 to 35 cars out there... of all shapes and sizes from Miatas to McLarens... it's really difficult to be able to go out with your buddies and either find them or stay with them. There's just so much traffic and it only takes one slow car to get in the middle of things and the guy ahead is long gone. We have corner passing restrictions.... so basically like at Sonoma --- once you've hit T2 -- you don't get much of a chance to pass until you're exiting T6.... and then again not until you hit T9 etc. So if the car/driver combo is pretty well matched... then you're hosed if you get behind.

Last time at Thunderhill --- I wanted to run with Chet and Pete.... so kind of waited on them to come into view.... then a couple other cars went by while I was dogging it --- and they went bye and were gone... and I got stuck. On a 2+ mile track with passing zones... it's really pretty tough to pick and choose who you want to run with.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I think Charley should borrow Mayhem and shut the both of you down. :buttkick:

[SSLance]

Just as a comparison, this is how USCA does it. First off, there are 3 run groups to chose from, novice, advanced and expert...you choose your group and state your case and they decide if you chose correctly.

Then each group goes out and runs one session each. As you are lining up in grid to start the next session, they line you up based on your last session's fastest lap time. Basically putting the faster of the run groups cars up front and the slower of the groups cars towards the rear.

This way one you are on the track the faster cars can take off and run with like kind cars while the slower cars don't hold anyone up.

It worked BRILLIANTLY...

Paying for track time only to be held up by slower cars lap after lap after lap SUCKS...been there, done that. I can count on one hand the number of times I had to wait out a couple of corners behind a slower car for a point by section in a full 5 session day and I think the only time I pointed anyone by me was when I was working on trying some different things that weren't really working well for me and I didn't want to hold anyone else up while trying them.

I found that we'd be lining up with cars that we could run with and have a blast every time out...SO much better than some of the SCCA and NASA track days I've been too.

[GregWeld]

I think Charley should borrow Mayhem and shut the both of you down. :buttkick:




Really?? I'm pretty sure he owns it.



That's the fun part about track days - and also the challenge. Everybody is running some different weight car - different power - different tire sizes / brands - rear end gears - trannys. It's not like racing with a sanctioning body and rules. Thus it's not really even worth talking about what times someone else did -- or what you're doing. It's just FUN.

I.E., I'd take the Lotus and after the first corner it would be "see ya"... and it's a whopping 252 horse power. Put Stielow in a stock Miata and I probably couldn't stay with him. LOL

[syborg tt]

I think Charley should borrow Mayhem and shut the both of you down. :buttkick:

or just buy a new Z28

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Really?? I'm pretty sure he owns it.





i knew that :catfight:

[358Mustang]

You're just sorry you sold me the car... and you know you want it back. LOL




This car is bad ass folks.... it sounds good - it looks good... and it works fine. I love it or I wouldn't be trying to make it just a little better. I've honestly owned several cars that I drove around the block and sold for a loss (Charley knows our common friend that would verify I've done that and not even gone a full block!)



You can drool all you want to.....





http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/IMG_1467.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/IMG_1467.jpg.html)

Hey I saw this guy at Mini Nats....

[Flash68]

Hey I saw this guy at Mini Nats....

Not sure if I met you, but I am guessing I dig your car based on your username.

:bigun2:

[GregWeld]

Hey I saw this guy at Mini Nats....





Yes you did! And the Lotus too!






http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Lotus/file-12.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/Lotus/file-12.jpg.html)

[GregWeld]

Hey Charley!! You're friends told me to say HI!







http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/IMG_6003.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/IMG_6003.jpg.html)

[358Mustang]

My dad kept bringing up your yellow car, he was like man did you see that thing run? It sounded great!! He has been in the club since like the 4th mini nats... SO he has been around this stuff for a while...

I see a green sticker on your car though, so that would probly explain why I never saw you. I was also in green group so we probably never got bunched together.

[GregWeld]

My dad kept bringing up your yellow car, he was like man did you see that thing run? It sounded great!! He has been in the club since like the 4th mini nats... SO he has been around this stuff for a while...

I see a green sticker on your car though, so that would probly explain why I never saw you. I was also in green group so we probably never got bunched together.



I spent the night in Watsonville or near there -- at the Garlic Farm.... LOL


We'll all be at the October Thunderhill event with any luck. Would love to meet you and your Dad.

[Stuart Adams]

Green for cash!!

[GregWeld]

It hasn't been 100% determined yet - but it "appears" the Mustang motor has a valve train geometry issue. That would certainly explain why the valve train issues of tips coming off valves and two broken rocker arms.

Given the fact that it's been out of the car and back to the engine builder 3 times (now on it's fourth) for valve related issues/head issues... Needless to say it's not going back there this time.

[Sieg]

So possible contributing factors are?
Rocker arm ratio
Pushrod length
Valve stem length
Valve spring coil bind
Head being surfaced

???

[GregWeld]

So possible contributing factors are?
Rocker arm ratio
Pushrod length
Valve stem length
Valve spring coil bind
Head being surfaced

???



Any of those singly or a combination... it's going to an engine builder to determine the cause and get it corrected. Of course --- ANY really good engine builder is going to do a complete rebuild. And I wouldn't take it to somebody that wouldn't want to go thru it from top to bottom and check everything. That's where these stupid little "mistakes" get expensive. There's no reason for it other than being sloppy with the build.

The heads being surfaced -- and block decking - can create an issue where the manifold starts to not fit. All machining of these surfaces - and which type of rocker used - and the length of the valve - and the spring height - and the retainer choice... and on and on -- all affect the geometry. Its so friggin easy to check that a kindergartner could do it. It's easily corrected with the correct length of valve - or use of lash caps - or the right length push rod etc. But a guy has to check it to know.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Any of those singly or a combination... it's going to an engine builder to determine the cause and get it corrected. Of course --- ANY really good engine builder is going to do a complete rebuild. And I wouldn't take it to somebody that wouldn't want to go thru it from top to bottom and check everything. That's where these stupid little "mistakes" get expensive. There's no reason for it other than being sloppy with the build.

The heads being surfaced -- and block decking - can create an issue where the manifold starts to not fit. All machining of these surfaces - and which type of rocker used - and the length of the valve - and the spring height - and the retainer choice... and on and on -- all affect the geometry. Its so friggin easy to check that a kindergartner could do it. It's easily corrected with the correct length of valve - or use of lash caps - or the right length push rod etc. But a guy has to check it to know.

What? You mean that same kindergartener that eats glue, can barely poop in the toilet and cries when mommy drops them off?

You would be surprised what a lot of guys miss. Some hard heads I see always have that "what the F do you know? Ive been running this combo for 30 years". attitude. Attention to detail goes to the waste side when dead lines and stress comes into play.

My machinist is lke a surgeon. He digs and digs till he finds a problem, not say "oh, I don't know why must have been a fluke"
Im not saying he is the best but he works hard and it shows.

[GregWeld]

What? You mean that same kindergartener that eats glue, can barely poop in the toilet and cries when mommy drops them off?

You would be surprised what a lot of guys miss. Some hard heads I see always have that "what the F do you know? Ive been running this combo for 30 years". attitude. Attention to detail goes to the waste side when dead lines and stress comes into play.

My machinist is lke a surgeon. He digs and digs till he finds a problem, not say "oh, I don't know why must have been a fluke"
Im not saying he is the best but he works hard and it shows.




Everybody's engine builder is the "BEST".....So far - in 40 years of doing this - I've only ever had one guy build me multiple motors that have never had a single issue. I've had motors built by Dale Green... That motor was a complete and utter disaster. I had a motor built by a famous racing stable out of Tacoma Washington... it lasted about 300 miles... first oil change there was so much metal in the pan it looked like I hit a gold mine.... They managed to forget to install spring seat retainers so the springs ate the shims.... I had a big inch small block built where the guy didn't fly cut the pistons so the much larger valves kissed the "factory" cuts... But NEVER have I had a motor back to a builder 3 times for a similar issue and have it summarily overlooked.

[Stuart Adams]

So green is for cash.

That's a pisser. Are you limited on motor choices, cubes , etc?

[GregWeld]

So green is for cash.

That's a pisser. Are you limited on motor choices, cubes , etc?



No rules.


If this motor isn't hurt real bad - I'll just have it gone thru - straighten out the issue if any and stick it back in. Next time - it gets replaced.

[Track Junky]

Thought it was the fuel pressure regulator?

[GregWeld]

Thought it was the fuel pressure regulator?




That went first.... and we were able -- should say Ron was able -- to adjust the float levels so I could run (mostly WOT) with the 14 psi of fuel the carb was getting. I'd just go on grid as the last car was leaving so I didn't have to idle... roll out and rip it. Ran fine as long as I was into the throttle.

I was on track when that POS let go.... and I thought maybe that I was low on fuel as that's what it acted like... but the diaphragm had just gone hard and it quit regulating. I'm running an electric pump - so the car needs a FP regulator.

They got the pan off and the intake -- and there's no blued journals or beat up rods... and no big chunks of metal - so at first glance - it appears it's just the valve train issue...

[chetly]

If you don't have an engine guy in mind, I'd recommend Bob Wirth. He's out of Hayward California. He rebuilt the Roush Yates engine for Mike Maier after he hurt it, it built another engine for a friend of ours that's 310cid SBF and over 500hp. He's also really well known on the sprint car/ midget scene so Ron Sutton may know who he is as well.

[GregWeld]

If you don't have an engine guy in mind, I'd recommend Bob Wirth. He's out of Hayward California. He rebuilt the Roush Yates engine for Mike Maier after he hurt it, it built another engine for a friend of ours that's 310cid SBF and over 500hp. He's also really well known on the sprint car/ midget scene so Ron Sutton may know who he is as well.

He was first choice but can't do the motor in time. He's too busy right now. So the motor is going to Borello's

[chetly]

Ahh, to bad.

[Track Junky]

He was first choice but can't do the motor in time. He's too busy right now. So the motor is going to Borello's

You mean Borrelli's in San Jose? Let me know.....I should be heading that way on Friday.

[GregWeld]

You mean Borrelli's in San Jose? Let me know.....I should be heading that way on Friday.



No that's not who I mean.

Tony Borello Race Engines
Garden Valley, CA


++++++++++

Do you find it tough to lead.... when you don't know where you're going???


LOL

[clill]

You guys pulled the pan before pulling a valve cover ? Anyone cut open the oil filter ? Seems to me if you drop the float level you run the risk of leaning it out.

[Vegas69]

It shouldn't be suffering a valve train failure every other event unless Weld can't adjust valves. I could build something in my garage that would survive longer than this POS. The engine has to run how long? 60 minutes a weekend?

I agree with having it completely gone through. One lack of discipline effects the rest.

Greg, did you ever talk to Tony about adjust the valves since they are titanium and this is a mechanical?

[GregWeld]

You guys pulled the pan before pulling a valve cover ?



Try to keep up --- a valve cover was the first thing pulled.



Anyone cut open the oil filter ?



No - they're messy and our hands would get all oily. There was metal on the magnetic oil pan plug... good enough clue for me.




Seems to me if you drop the float level you run the risk of leaning it out.




Never broke a rocker arm in a motor while adjusting floats before.... YOU? LOL

It won't lean out when you have 14psi of fuel pushing past the seats - lowering the floats just kept it from flooding out. When you crack the throttle WOT -- there was PLENTY of fuel. The problem was TOO MUCH fuel not too little.

[GregWeld]

It shouldn't be suffering a valve train failure every other event unless Weld can't adjust valves. I could build something in my garage that would survive longer than this POS. The engine has to run how long? 60 minutes a weekend?

I agree with having it completely gone through. One lack of discipline effects the rest.

Greg, did you ever talk to Tony about adjust the valves since they are titanium and this is a mechanical?




In all the years I've been messing with stuff -- I've never suffered valve train issues. That would include when I campaigned a D/Gas car. Adjusting valves is a skill that school girls are taught. This isn't an adjustment issue. It's a geometry issue.

Titanium is about weight... not about how they're adjusted. They have hardened steel tips just like any other valve. In fact - that was the first issue way back - a tip "fell" off... Tony said "it happens".

I'll know what the story is in a few weeks and will post up what we find out.

[Vegas69]

A majority of the valve is titanium which means it could expand at a different rate effecting the adjustment. I doubt it's adjustment but I can tell you that there is a major difference between the lash adjustment on an all aluminum engine vs. a steel block with a mechanical, cold.

[GregWeld]

A majority of the valve is titanium which means it could expand at a different rate effecting the adjustment. I doubt it's adjustment but I can tell you that there is a major difference between the lash adjustment on an all aluminum engine vs. a steel block with a mechanical, cold.



Oddo's numbers were used. .018 and .014 if I remember right

[GregWeld]

In FAIRNESS to Charley.....

He lives a much more interesting life than some of the rest of us do... Kinda like the Dos Exquis beer guy... So while we sat and discussed the poor little Mustang HE was off at the Monterey Historics doing actual REAL fun car stuff.

[fleetus macmullitz]

@hotrodmagazine: #Can-Am at #pebblebeach @MazdaRaceway http://t.co/KQSgmYkBEd

[Vince@Meanstreets]

tight or a dry guide can cause a cap to pop. or it floated valves? was it an exhaust valve?

[Vince@Meanstreets]

In FAIRNESS to Charley.....

He lives a much more interesting life than some of the rest of us do... Kinda like the Dos Exquis beer guy... So while we sat and discussed the poor little Mustang HE was off at the Monterey Historics doing actual REAL fun car stuff.

that's what we all strive to grow up to be right? problem is doing before our expiration date.

[GregWeld]

The high cost of racin'..... I'm now into motor rebuilds - more than I paid for the car. Let's hope I get more than one or two events out of it this time around... Three would set a new record.

LOL


My instructions to the builder (Tony Borello).... "I don't care what it costs as long as I can pull away from Gaetano".... His response... "that's childs play".



EEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAA

[syborg tt]

I'm thinking you should buy a Spec Miata and go thrash on that. Heck if you get them to last a couple races you would be way ahead on the game.

[Track Junky]

The high cost of racin'..... I'm now into motor rebuilds - more than I paid for the car. Let's hope I get more than one or two events out of it this time around... Three would set a new record.

LOL


My instructions to the builder (Tony Borello).... "I don't care what it costs as long as I can pull away from Gaetano".... His response... "that's childs play".



EEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAA

Funny...Conversation kinda went like that for me to my builder...."Weld pulled me to turn 7. Lets not let that happen again." :lol:

[GregWeld]

I'm thinking you should buy a Spec Miata and go thrash on that. Heck if you get them to last a couple races you would be way ahead on the game.



No need for a Miata --- I have a Lotus 2 Eleven... it just runs and runs and runs and doesn't use any gas - is easy on tires and brakes...

Maybe I'll use the Lotus as #1 car and the Mustang will just sit and wait it's turn as a back up car!?!?!?! LOL




Funny...Conversation kinda went like that for me to my builder...."Weld pulled me to turn 7. Lets not let that happen again." :lol:


LOL --- funny!

This motor is being completely rebuilt... new rods - new pistons - cam - rockers - valves... bored and balanced of course.... All new from the ground up. I'm so over the other build. When it ran it ran real well -- but lasting more than 3 or 4 hours would be a novel idea.

[GrabberGT]

This motor is being completely rebuilt... new rods - new pistons - cam - rockers - valves... bored and balanced of course.... All new from the ground up. I'm so over the other build. When it ran it ran real well -- but lasting more than 3 or 4 hours would be a novel idea.

A more street friendly build? Perhaps a USCA event could be in its future?

[GregWeld]

A more street friendly build? Perhaps a USCA event could be in its future?



Oh no! No street anything in this build. No headlights... no signals... VIN... Title... insurance... no pump gas... It's a track car for sure. I like it that way. Not to mention I'm not driving around any cones! I've chased enough of those damn orange things!! If I had to drive around them - they'd have to completely re-set the entire track after every lap!! LOL

[Greg from Aus]

The high cost of racin'..... I'm now into motor rebuilds - more than I paid for the car. Let's hope I get more than one or two events out of it this time around... Three would set a new record.

LOL


My instructions to the builder (Tony Borello).... "I don't care what it costs as long as I can pull away from Gaetano".... His response... "that's childs play".



EEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAA

Ouch, it didn't sound good on the day.

[GregWeld]

Ouch, it didn't sound good on the day.

No it didn't did it Greg. Motors aren't supposed to be making knocking noises! Rowdy as they may be... That metal thumping isn't "music" - unless you're a rebuilder!!! Then that's the sound of money!! LOL

[Stuart Adams]

Kinda takes the track out of the title"track car". Bummer.

How many hp?

[GregWeld]

Kinda takes the track out of the title"track car". Bummer.

How many hp?



The current 356 cubic inch Ford has been making 590 HP... on 110 octane race gas. It's pretty rumpity.... and revs super quick. Nice motor - that just has issues. Sometimes it's just something stupid that doesn't get caught during the build. Thus the new eyeballs this time around.

[Stuart Adams]

That is a healthy little chit.

[GregWeld]

That is a healthy little chit.






http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/Mustang.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/Mustang.jpg.html)

[Vegas69]

What did Ron and the new engine builder say about that oil pressure?

[GregWeld]

What did Ron and the new engine builder say about that oil pressure?



I sent this dyno sheet to Tony Borello and asked him about the oil pressure..... But I just sent it today so don't expect a response yet.

The "quote" did list a new oil pump and pick up.... He also doesn't use Oliver rods - the current rods in the motor - and asked if it was okay to change them to Carrillo Rods and a stronger bolt... That added 2K to the build but I said sure... I want it to be a Borello motor... so whatever he wants to change is okay with me.

[Panteracer]

My build is about 8 years old
Don't track as much as I used to but
About 4 times a year. Run it to 7000 rpm
all the time. Oil pressure is 58-63psi all the time

Best motor it have ever had
Pontiac has motor #9 but some
were junkyard dogs

Mustang motor (Chet's car lasted me 11 track days

Builder says attention to detail is the thing
Good oil pan and cooler. I also run -10 supply out
of an aero motive pump with a -8 return. No starving
the motor ever even with a carb. Keeps the fuel cool
Only run 30% leaded gas to as my builder says lube the valves
On a 9.8 to 1 motor

Works for me. But as my buddy says I will never have a motor like it again

Wish you the best of luck on yours Greg

Panteracer

[DBasher]

Done yet?

[GregWeld]

Done yet?




Probably by tomorrow.



I did order 8 new Hoosier A7's today... does that count??

[Track Junky]

Probably by tomorrow.



I did order 8 new Hoosier A7's today... does that count??

Well that's good. Hopefully you'll be able to keep up with me now. :lol:

[GregWeld]

Well that's good. Hopefully you'll be able to keep up with me now. :lol:



You'll have to give me a week so Sutton can sort it out.... The point being that we can sort out in one weekend of tracking what will take Ron of So Cal the next couple of years... LOL

[Ron in SoCal]

You'll have to give me a week so Sutton can sort it out.... The point being that we can sort out in one weekend of tracking what will take Ron of So Cal the next couple of years... LOL

I see you and Dave went to the same comedy class :lol:

[DBasher]

Probably by tomorrow.



I did order 8 new Hoosier A7's today... does that count??

16's? 17's? 22's?

On the oil psi deal, its been said 10psi per 1K rpm...really? Aren't oil pumps designed to flow a certain amount? Is a standard pump built/set for 60psi and it has a loss at greater rpm's?....I better go open a book.

Looking forward to seeing what's been done.

:thumbsup:
Dan

[Track Junky]

If he's smart he'll stick with the 16's. I've driven behind that car and it does well.

[GregWeld]

16's? 17's? 22's?

On the oil psi deal, its been said 10psi per 1K rpm...really? Aren't oil pumps designed to flow a certain amount? Is a standard pump built/set for 60psi and it has a loss at greater rpm's?....I better go open a book.

Looking forward to seeing what's been done.

:thumbsup:
Dan



New wheels are Formula 43 RAD 10 Club Sports with Laguna Grey centers in 18 X 9.5 squared. New Hoosiers A7's are 245/35/18 which is their latest greatest tire. The A6 is now considered a discontinued tire.


Yes the general rule of thumb I've always known about is 10 psi per 1,000 rpms...

[SSLance]

New wheels are Formula 43 RAD 10 Club Sports with Laguna Grey centers in 18 X 9.5 squared. New Hoosiers A7's are 245/35/18 which is their latest greatest tire. The A6 is now considered a discontinued tire.




That is going to make a HUGE difference in how the car handles!! You are going to love them!!

[GregWeld]

That is going to make a HUGE difference in how the car handles!! You are going to love them!!

Well --- there's a few more things being done besides wheels... HAHAHAHAHAHA


The ClubSport wheel has additional lightening done to it - and deletes the center cap...

Spindles/uprights - big Howe ball joints - big race bearings - JRI's with custom valving and reservoirs - composite springs in the rear - Sway bars front and back... bigger brakes... geometry massaging... rod ends...

We're just doing most of this to piss Charley off... Well - that, and because it's fun.

[Panteracer]

Greg,
your giving up all your secrets.. Charley is quietly
building his without you knowing

Have you put the Jerico in it yet?

Panteracer

[GregWeld]

Greg,
your giving up all your secrets.. Charley is quietly
building his without you knowing

Have you put the Jerico in it yet?

Panteracer



His car is "fine"..... besides --- it's a REAL race car where mine is a clone... so If I had his - I wouldn't mess with it either.

It's ALWAYS had a Jerico.


Not giving up any secrets -- because the secrets aren't the parts themselves... although some are - but it's how they're set up!! That's the sauce right there!!!

LOL

[GrabberGT]

Well --- there's a few more things being done besides wheels... HAHAHAHAHAHA


The ClubSport wheel has additional lightening done to it - and deletes the center cap...

Spindles/uprights - big Howe ball joints - big race bearings - JRI's with custom valving and reservoirs - composite springs in the rear - Sway bars front and back... bigger brakes... geometry massaging... rod ends...

We're just doing most of this to piss Charley off... Well - that, and because it's fun.

Sounds like the recipe for a reliable vintage racer to me.

[GregWeld]

Sounds like the recipe for a reliable vintage racer to me.


YUP! It's a little rehab mixed in with the "while we're here".... and as I've said in past posts in this thread -- try to make it a little better than it is... because after driving the Lotus.. you want that kind of braking and turn in etc. We won't get to where the Lotus starts but we can move the needle a bit.

[chetly]

Any reason why your running a 245 on a 9 1/2 inch rim? I would think that might be a little to much stretch of the sidewall. You could have easily put 275's on a 9 1/2 inch rim. Unless the fenders don't allow for that much tire.

[GregWeld]

Any reason why your running a 245 on a 9 1/2 inch rim? I would think that might be a little to much stretch of the sidewall. You could have easily put 275's on a 9 1/2 inch rim. Unless the fenders don't allow for that much tire.



The recommended wheel width for the tire size I'm running according to Hoosier is 8 to 9.5"



Section width on the tire is 9.9" AKA "skinny"

[GregWeld]

What did Ron and the new engine builder say about that oil pressure?



Got a note back from Borello today -- the motor had a standard oil pump... He'd already ordered a high volume pump to go with the pan I'm running. He also says he expects pressures to be 65 to 70 psi and that the dyno sheet shown is too low.

[Vegas69]

That was my feeling. The best engines I've owned had great oil pressure. To me, that was a huge oversight on a road race engine.

[GregWeld]

That was my feeling. The best engines I've owned had great oil pressure. To me, that was a huge oversight on a road race engine.




I didn't question it because I would have ASSumed the builder was capable of also seeing those numbers --- and a pump change after a dyno run - before the customer picks up the motor is pretty easily accomplished.... so I felt that there might be a reason for the lower number that was particular to his builds. Lots of engine builders have their own "quirks". This motor revs faster than an electric, so I thought perhaps his clearances might be looser - thereby lowering the pressure etc.

I would also "expect" that there would be bottom end issues with too low of a pressure vs the valve train issues I've suffered. But I'm not an engine expert even though I've built a few personally - they were all fairly simple street engines.

I know there are various strategies for controlling oil in motors that are expected to be run at high rpms (vs street motors) in an effort to keep all the oil from being pumped to the top of the motor i.e. high volume vs high pressure pumps etc. But again - I would EXPECT a race engine builder to know these things and adjust accordingly!

[Vegas69]

Come on, you have been in this circle jerk for how long? Responsibility belongs in one place, square on your lap. I found even the best needed some micro managing as we all have a custom set of circumstances. ''

I would say reduced oil pressure could effect how cool the valves stay.

[GregWeld]

Come on, you have been in this circle jerk for how long? Responsibility belongs in one place, square on your lap. I found even the best needed some micro managing as we all have a custom set of circumstances. ''

I would say reduced oil pressure could effect how cool the valves stay.



F That! I'm blaming Charley then!

[Vegas69]

Not surprised...:lol:

[rustomatic]

Hey Greg,

Does your Mustang have a speedo? Do you know how fast you guys got going between turns 11 and 1 at Sonoma? I only ask because my awesome rectangular speedo is basically just a large frame for the gas gauge...

As for the oil pressure, I had to pop a new pump in my X302 crate motor after about 3500 miles, due to creepily noisy start-ups. I only used standard pressure, as I've only got five quart capacity, but it stays at about 10 pounds per thousand. The problem got solved, yo.

All this talk about who's got the bigger tire only inspires me to work up to the green group with my pissant 225 section widths...

As a final point, given the Twinkie-like looks of your Mustang (no offense), in combination with all of the drama that went into the recent disappearance (and subsequent resurgence) of the Twinkie, your car may require a nickname. Any takers?

[GregWeld]

Hey Greg,

Does your Mustang have a speedo? Do you know how fast you guys got going between turns 11 and 1 at Sonoma? I only ask because my awesome rectangular speedo is basically just a large frame for the gas gauge...

As for the oil pressure, I had to pop a new pump in my X302 crate motor after about 3500 miles, due to creepily noisy start-ups. I only used standard pressure, as I've only got five quart capacity, but it stays at about 10 pounds per thousand. The problem got solved, yo.

All this talk about who's got the bigger tire only inspires me to work up to the green group with my pissant 225 section widths...

As a final point, given the Twinkie-like looks of your Mustang (no offense), in combination with all of the drama that went into the recent disappearance (and subsequent resurgence) of the Twinkie, your car may require a nickname. Any takers?



Good question on the speedo - which I can't answer because if it does have one I don't ever look at it. Ditto the Lotus... I never have any idea how fast I'm going - or as Gaetano would suggest - how slow.

You have to be a real man to crush the competition when they're on steam rollers and you're on skinnies. Skinnies for the win!!

I have a new nickname for this car -- "expensive POS". Good thing I love it!

I like running Green group because the driver experience - thus quality - seems to be far higher than the Red group drivers. The Red group seems to be full of people that barely graduated Yellow - and now think they're fast... but forget to point by - or pinch you off because they don't look around... and some take terrible lines etc. Last year at Mini Nats - in the Red group - Two different sessions I came rolling out of the Carrousel only to find cars wadded up at the bottom... a Porsche and a brand spanking new GT500 that didn't even have plates yet! That is not a difficult turn IMHO..... and these cars were wadded up front and back - both totals. Whereas you rarely have an incident in Green and rarely have a spin... and you can drive with more confidence in the guys around you or in front of you.

[GregWeld]

Well --- there's a few more things being done besides wheels... HAHAHAHAHAHA


The ClubSport wheel has additional lightening done to it - and deletes the center cap...

Spindles/uprights - big Howe ball joints - big race bearings - JRI's with custom valving and reservoirs - composite springs in the rear - Sway bars front and back... bigger brakes... geometry massaging... rod ends...

We're just doing most of this to piss Charley off... Well - that, and because it's fun.



I forgot that we're also doing a full floater as long as the rear end is out and being rebuilt with some different parts.

[Track Junky]

Good question on the speedo - which I can't answer because if it does have one I don't ever look at it. Ditto the Lotus... I never have any idea how fast I'm going - or as Gaetano would suggest - how slow.

You have to be a real man to crush the competition when they're on steam rollers and you're on skinnies. Skinnies for the win!!

I have a new nickname for this car -- "expensive POS". Good thing I love it!

I like running Green group because the driver experience - thus quality - seems to be far higher than the Red group drivers. The Red group seems to be full of people that barely graduated Yellow - and now think they're fast... but forget to point by - or pinch you off because they don't look around... and some take terrible lines etc. Last year at Mini Nats - in the Red group - Two different sessions I came rolling out of the Carrousel only to find cars wadded up at the bottom... a Porsche and a brand spanking new GT500 that didn't even have plates yet! That is not a difficult turn IMHO..... and these cars were wadded up front and back - both totals. Whereas you rarely have an incident in Green and rarely have a spin... and you can drive with more confidence in the guys around you or in front of you.

I went so fast I broke my speedo :lol:

Seriously speaking though Rusto......speeds into one I believe reach 130

[Track Junky]

Hey Greg,

Does your Mustang have a speedo? Do you know how fast you guys got going between turns 11 and 1 at Sonoma? I only ask because my awesome rectangular speedo is basically just a large frame for the gas gauge...

As for the oil pressure, I had to pop a new pump in my X302 crate motor after about 3500 miles, due to creepily noisy start-ups. I only used standard pressure, as I've only got five quart capacity, but it stays at about 10 pounds per thousand. The problem got solved, yo.

All this talk about who's got the bigger tire only inspires me to work up to the green group with my pissant 225 section widths...

As a final point, given the Twinkie-like looks of your Mustang (no offense), in combination with all of the drama that went into the recent disappearance (and subsequent resurgence) of the Twinkie, your car may require a nickname. Any takers?

You should look into a bigger oil pan. Be sure it has windage tray, scrapers, and trap doors. It is very easy to suck a lot of oil out of the pan coming into turn one and then you headed up hill and oil tends to flow away from the oil pump.

[Track Junky]

Hey Greg,

Does your Mustang have a speedo? Do you know how fast you guys got going between turns 11 and 1 at Sonoma? I only ask because my awesome rectangular speedo is basically just a large frame for the gas gauge...

As for the oil pressure, I had to pop a new pump in my X302 crate motor after about 3500 miles, due to creepily noisy start-ups. I only used standard pressure, as I've only got five quart capacity, but it stays at about 10 pounds per thousand. The problem got solved, yo.

All this talk about who's got the bigger tire only inspires me to work up to the green group with my pissant 225 section widths...

As a final point, given the Twinkie-like looks of your Mustang (no offense), in combination with all of the drama that went into the recent disappearance (and subsequent resurgence) of the Twinkie, your car may require a nickname. Any takers?


I would call it "Pace Car". Only because he seems to want to pull off the track when its race time. :mock:

[clill]

It has a 3 quart accusump.

[DBasher]

Too bad it's another poopie Camaro or I'd have a whole basket full of cast off parts... Guess I'll have to give 'em to Basher instead.


Basket or pallet?

Just got back from "watching" Rushforth and his friends auto-x in Bremerton...two more events for the year. I think I may have to just run it as is----this "watching" thing is getting old!

:hairpullout:
Dan

[GregWeld]

Yeah - Watching sucks - unless you're direct support for someone...

Every time I think of Jason - I remember going to rescue his Buick from somewhere in the boonies - dragging it to my place and pulling the motor. Pretty cool to see an LS powered Buick! Anyway - he got the motor rebuilt and then he and I and Chris Holstrom reinstalled it. It's been good ever since. Good times.





Too bad it's another poopie Camaro or I'd have a whole basket full of cast off parts... Guess I'll have to give 'em to Basher instead.


Basket or pallet?

Just got back from "watching" Rushforth and his friends auto-x in Bremerton...two more events for the year. I think I may have to just run it as is----this "watching" thing is getting old!

:hairpullout:
Dan

[glassman]

I like running Green group because the driver experience - thus quality - seems to be far higher than the Red group drivers. The Red group seems to be full of people that barely graduated Yellow - and now think they're fast... but forget to point by - or pinch you off because they don't look around... and some take terrible lines etc. Last year at Mini Nats - in the Red group - Two different sessions I came rolling out of the Carrousel only to find cars wadded up at the bottom... a Porsche and a brand spanking new GT500 that didn't even have plates yet! That is not a difficult turn IMHO..... and these cars were wadded up front and back - both totals. Whereas you rarely have an incident in Green and rarely have a spin... and you can drive with more confidence in the guys around you or in front of you.

Dam good points!!

I'm gonna run Red group in October, cause i may still be that newb who does'nt do a wave by at the right time....last thing i want to do...

[358Mustang]

Anyone going to the Laguna event end of this month? Plan is to take my dads Shelby since my car is cut in half. And we can run the boom tubes because it is unlimited sound :confused18:

[Track Junky]

I registered but then bailed. I started building my detached garage and I'll be doing the foundation and framing. Spent labor day weekend digging footings. I'll be forming it this weekend and hopefully framing it the next.

[Flash68]

Anyone going to the Laguna event end of this month? Plan is to take my dads Shelby since my car is cut in half. And we can run the boom tubes because it is unlimited sound :confused18:

I might come down just to see/hear this. :rockin:

[DBasher]

Done yet?

As cool as the new rims are, they're going to change the entire look of the car!

:gitrdun:
Dan

It must not have liked everything else I had to say, none of it showed......Something about a Torino and silencing Ron Sutton on the build, cheese balls a certain orange Camaro and fancy beer....oh well, wasn't important. LOL

[rustomatic]

Thanks for the feedback, Greg. I know a couple of guys in the Red group, one of whom has chosen blue for Laguna... Don't get it...

If it's any consolation, my wife really likes Twinkies... There was also an interesting murder trial, which created the "Twinkie defense"...

You know Gaetano knows the speed...

Back to work, almost...

Good question on the speedo - which I can't answer because if it does have one I don't ever look at it. Ditto the Lotus... I never have any idea how fast I'm going - or as Gaetano would suggest - how slow.

You have to be a real man to crush the competition when they're on steam rollers and you're on skinnies. Skinnies for the win!!

I have a new nickname for this car -- "expensive POS". Good thing I love it!

I like running Green group because the driver experience - thus quality - seems to be far higher than the Red group drivers. The Red group seems to be full of people that barely graduated Yellow - and now think they're fast... but forget to point by - or pinch you off because they don't look around... and some take terrible lines etc. Last year at Mini Nats - in the Red group - Two different sessions I came rolling out of the Carrousel only to find cars wadded up at the bottom... a Porsche and a brand spanking new GT500 that didn't even have plates yet! That is not a difficult turn IMHO..... and these cars were wadded up front and back - both totals. Whereas you rarely have an incident in Green and rarely have a spin... and you can drive with more confidence in the guys around you or in front of you.

[rustomatic]

I'll be there, but I'm in the slow group with all of the GT500s and lesser Vipers and whatnot... I'll be the quiet one with the loud dents...

For sure back to work...

Anyone going to the Laguna event end of this month? Plan is to take my dads Shelby since my car is cut in half. And we can run the boom tubes because it is unlimited sound :confused18:

[rustomatic]

What kind of footage are you doing, Gaetano? My dream garage must fit a Peterbilt in at stack height (not roof). That's one high, maybe a couple across. My current garage can't fit the F250 in...

I'll now return to dreaming . . . I mean working.

I registered but then bailed. I started building my detached garage and I'll be doing the foundation and framing. Spent labor day weekend digging footings. I'll be forming it this weekend and hopefully framing it the next.

[Track Junky]

What kind of footage are you doing, Gaetano? My dream garage must fit a Peterbilt in at stack height (not roof). That's one high, maybe a couple across. My current garage can't fit the F250 in...

I'll now return to dreaming . . . I mean working.

No where near the footage I would like but I'm already using up quite a bit with the house on a 3rd acre lot. Shop will be 24' x 34'. Couldn't get the height I wanted either (Darn building dept.) but lucky enough for me they do make lifts for 10' ceilings.

I'll be taking next week off to get the foundation done and then I'll be framing for a few weekends after that. Everything else will get subbed out so hopefully it will be done the end of October. Stop by sometime on a weekend.

[hifi875]

No where near the footage I would like but I'm already using up quite a bit with the house on a 3rd acre lot. Shop will be 24' x 34'. Couldn't get the height I wanted either (Darn building dept.) but lucky enough for me they do make lifts for 10' ceilings.

I'll be taking next week off to get the foundation done and then I'll be framing for a few weekends after that. Everything else will get subbed out so hopefully it will be done the end of October. Stop by sometime on a weekend.

My ceiling is 10ft. Lift no problem

[Track Junky]

My ceiling is 10ft. Lift no problem

Awesome!! Thanks for the confirmation. :thumbsup:

[Ron in SoCal]

My ceiling is 10ft. Lift no problem

Awesome!! Thanks for the confirmation. :thumbsup:

I'd like some more info on this? I measured more than 10'4" including me standing underneath it.

Oh wait, I got it GC has an extra 6" of clearance. :D

[Track Junky]

I'd like some more info on this? I measured more than 10'4" including me standing underneath it.

Oh wait, I got it GC has an extra 6" of clearance. :D

Well first off funny guy you know I'm going to cheat the height and get at least 10'6. If the inspector asks I'll be like "OOPS" :EmoteClueless:

[Ron in SoCal]

Well first off funny guy you know I'm going to cheat the height and get at least 10'6. If the inspector asks I'll be like "OOPS" :EmoteClueless:

:lol: Gae :cheers:

[GregWeld]

Well first off funny guy you know I'm going to cheat the height and get at least 10'6. If the inspector asks I'll be like "OOPS" :EmoteClueless:




When was the last time you EVER saw an inspector with a tape measure?

[Track Junky]

When was the last time you EVER saw an inspector with a tape measure?

Today but that was me :D

I don't want to jinks anything so I'll keep my comments on building inspectors to myself until this thing is done.

[Sieg]

Oh wait, I got it GC has an extra 6" of clearance. :D
That's referred to as 'headspace.' :D

[GregWeld]

That's referred to as 'headspace.' :D




And here I was always thinking that was the back seat.... But WTF do I know.

[Rick D]

Wow another GW thread off the rails who would of thought that could happen? :D :popcorn2:

Oh is the Mustang done yet??? :y0!:

[GregWeld]

Wow another GW thread off the rails who would of thought that could happen? :D :popcorn2:

Oh is the Mustang done yet??? :y0!:



The plans have been consolidated into actions. But we still have a month before the 5 mile Nor Cal Shelby Thunderhill event. I had only signed up the Lotus to run because unlike "others" around here - when I say I'm going to an event - I go to the event! This last week I registered the Mustang as well - if that tells ya anything.

It should be a fun weekend - but I'll be busy setting up (actually Ron Sutton will be busy) the Mustang with all her shiny new parts... and learning the 5 mile track configuration.

On top of that - the AiM SmartyCam GP HD camera I'd bought for the Lotus... and all it's sundry parts - turned out to be defective... and had to be uninstalled and sent off to be fixed. So at the same event I'm going to attempt to get it working properly so the videos post up lap times - speedo - tach - G's - and where I am on the track, overlaid.

There! We're back on track (pun?) now.

[Rick D]

Morning Greg :hello: I love how your projects just keep right on "track" < see what I did there? :D

The plans have been consolidated into actions. But we still have a month before the 5 mile Nor Cal Shelby Thunderhill event. I had only signed up the Lotus to run because unlike "others" around here - when I say I'm going to an event - I go to the event! This last week I registered the Mustang as well - if that tells ya anything.

It should be a fun weekend - but I'll be busy setting up (actually Ron Sutton will be busy) the Mustang with all her shiny new parts... and learning the 5 mile track configuration.

On top of that - the AiM SmartyCam GP HD camera I'd bought for the Lotus... and all it's sundry parts - turned out to be defective... and had to be uninstalled and sent off to be fixed. So at the same event I'm going to attempt to get it working properly so the videos post up lap times - speedo - tach - G's - and where I am on the track, overlaid.

There! We're back on track (pun?) now.

[GregWeld]

Morning Greg :hello: I love how your projects just keep right on "track" < see what I did there? :D



Nice work!


Not sure how this went from race car to a shed build... LOL But I derail lots of threads around here myself so don't really care. These threads are no different than hanging out in the shop blabbing. The conversations tend to get off line sometimes. No biggie.

But with your help we hit the apex... we're into the roll thru... and hopefully we're punching it towards the exit onto the straight! <covered everything there!>

The only hangups with the Mustang remodel would be parts not shipping... and I don't think we're running into any issues there so far. I didn't need custom pistons or anything like that in the motor rebuild. The new Carrillo rods weren't a problem (replacing the Olivers). 8 new Formula 43 wheels were spec'd and ordered. The 8 new Hoosier R7's have shipped. Sutton has the other stuff going... BMR Racing is re-routing the rear brake lines out of the driveline tunnel to a safer place - and also away from the heat of the exhaust... as long as we have things torn up. Ron has worked his magic on the geometry... and I would assume his good working relationships with most of the parts suppliers have us in good shape for getting stuff done.

I've discovered that having someone like Ron Sutton do this kind of stuff - managing and figuring things out... saves A TON of time! In the past - I'd have done this on my own. I'd first have to research and learn about what I "think" I'd want to do... then tear stuff apart... then figure out who supplied what.. and find out if they had what I need (they never do because I'd have come up with some BS thing that nobody makes)... and all of that takes a lot of time and energy... Sutton knows where he's taking the car and understands the market for what's needed and just gets it done! Couple that with he's done all the math up front - and then when we hit the track - he knows what's going on and can dial it in with the minimal feedback I can supply. BINGO.

[Sieg]

If Ron know's how to set up AiM Smarty Cams you've got it all covered. :D

[Ron Sutton]

The only hangups with the Mustang remodel would be parts not shipping... and I don't think we're running into any issues there so far. I didn't need custom pistons or anything like that in the motor rebuild. The new Carrillo rods weren't a problem (replacing the Olivers). 8 new Formula 43 wheels were spec'd and ordered. The 8 new Hoosier R7's have shipped. Sutton has the other stuff going... BMR Racing is re-routing the rear brake lines out of the driveline tunnel to a safer place - and also away from the heat of the exhaust... as long as we have things torn up. Ron has worked his magic on the geometry... and I would assume his good working relationships with most of the parts suppliers have us in good shape for getting stuff done.

I've discovered that having someone like Ron Sutton do this kind of stuff - managing and figuring things out... saves A TON of time! In the past - I'd have done this on my own. I'd first have to research and learn about what I "think" I'd want to do... then tear stuff apart... then figure out who supplied what.. and find out if they had what I need (they never do because I'd have come up with some BS thing that nobody makes)... and all of that takes a lot of time and energy... Sutton knows where he's taking the car and understands the market for what's needed and just gets it done! Couple that with he's done all the math up front - and then when we hit the track - he knows what's going on and can dial it in with the minimal feedback I can supply. BINGO.

Yup. All on track to run the NorCal Shelby Event October 18-19.

If Ron know's how to set up AiM Smarty Cams you've got it all covered. :D

Nope. Not a clue.

:cheers:

[GregWeld]

Ron emailed pics of the new Formula 43 RAD 10 Clubsports and the new Hoosier (DADDY?) A7's mounted up... two complete sets ought to hold me for one weekend of chasing Charley!






http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/IMG_3208.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/IMG_3208.jpg.html)

[Flash68]

A backup set of F43 wheels.... :lol: that's when you know you've "arrived"..

Nice wheel choice. Gwen must have handled that decision.

What sizes are they?

[GregWeld]

A backup set of F43 wheels.... :lol: that's when you know you've "arrived"..

Nice wheel choice. Gwen must have handled that decision.

What sizes are they?



I don't understand? Why wouldn't you have a back up set of wheels and tires - and why wouldn't they be the exact same or equivalent?? Takes me two days to get to a track event --- I'm not wasting 4 days going back and forth over not having a stinky set of backup tires and wheels.

Gwen just shrugs her shoulders.

They're Round....


They're 18" X 9.5's


Tires are the same old skinny 245 X 18 X 35ZR

[Track Junky]

18's huh.....Did you get a cup holder?

[Flash68]

18's huh.....Did you get a cup holder?

To clear those 15" carbon platinum titanium rotors he'll be upgrading to next.

[Chassisworks]

To clear those 15" carbon platinum titanium rotors he'll be upgrading to next.

You need 19s to clear 15" brakes. Unless you :superhack:

[JKnight]

You need 19s to clear 15" brakes. Unless you :superhack:

Where there's a Weld there's a way! LOL

[GregWeld]

You need 19s to clear 15" brakes. Unless you :superhack:

Where there's a Weld there's a way! LOL



Hot rodding 102 --- "ya gotta cut to cure".


I'm thinking that Ron Sutton has done plenty of math on the brakes that are now installed and they're no doubt "more than adequate" --- particularly over the 12" two piston fronts and the single C4 caliper rears.....

Dave -- the 18" wheels are about reducing sidewall roll because I want to be able to lap Gaetano next time out - which means carrying a lot of speed into and thru the corners... and I was rolling those 45's over onto the sidewalls....


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Track Junky]

My math says your adding rotating mass and will over brake those 245's but hey, what do I know.

Looking forward to spanking you like a red headed step child. :lol:

[GregWeld]

My math says your adding rotating mass and will over brake those 245's but hey, what do I know.

Looking forward to spanking you like a red headed step child. :lol:





With 4 tires that are twice as wide --- and more horsepower --- and 80 more cubic inches.... you SHOULD be able to.... Should being the critical word there. LOL

[Track Junky]

With 4 tires that are twice as wide --- and more horsepower --- and 80 more cubic inches.... you SHOULD be able to.... Should being the critical word there. LOL

All in good fun buddy. More cubic inches and you still pull me :headscratch:

I've got work to do for sure.

[GregWeld]

All in good fun buddy. More cubic inches and you still pull me :headscratch:

I've got work to do for sure.



We all do.... it's never ending with these kinds of cars. We're either improving (right...) or fixing... or waiting to do either of those things. UGH!

All fun though and I have to say I love it.

[Panteracer]

Track junky
I have been running 245'-18's on the front of my
Pantera for over 8 years now. Brakes are 12.2 wilwood 6 piston
Bush grand national stuff... Yes roundly round stuff
Never have locked or flat spotted any tires. I do have
315-18's out back. Car is mid engine and it took a while
To balance out but that is what it is about ..proportioning valve

He'll my old mustang (Chet's car now) had Baer 6 pistons
Up front and drums in the back. Car is very light but still
Stopped very well. 245-16's all the way around
That car was 2810lbs so that helps
Greg's should be lighter. Weight always wins in my book

Pantera is beefy at 3040 lbs

Panteracer

[GregWeld]

Track junky
I have been running 245'-18's on the front of my
Pantera for over 8 years now. Brakes are 12.2 wilwood 6 piston
Bush grand national stuff... Yes roundly round stuff
Never have locked or flat spotted any tires. I do have
315-18's out back. Car is mid engine and it took a while
To balance out but that is what it is about ..proportioning valve

He'll my old mustang (Chet's car now) had Baer 6 pistons
Up front and drums in the back. Car is very light but still
Stopped very well. 245-16's all the way around
That car was 2810lbs so that helps
Greg's should be lighter. Weight always wins in my book

Pantera is beefy at 3040 lbs

Panteracer




There's more to it than just how many pistons etc.... we're going to a different compound pad which will be "nicer" to the rotors.... we wanted to be able to run the Spec 37 Rotor... and my old brake system wouldn't allow that combo.

Pads are cheap - rotors get spendy. I was having to replace them too often, without the corresponding brake performance. The Lotus has done as many if not more laps - at faster lap times - and I haven't touched the brakes other than to inspect them. That system is "correct" in my book. It's a TINY - make that MINUSCULE - brake system.

We also wanted to upgrade the bearings - and that alone made choices of other parts - and then toss in the "as long as we're doing it right - let's do it right!".


The Mustang is 3015#'s.... Not sure how you got Chet's down to 2800 something. But I know he's fast. One Sunday we chased a Turbo Porsche around for several laps at Sonoma. Chet was able to keep right on his tail. I was surprised - as I'm certain - so was the Porsche owner.

[Panteracer]

I understand that brake pads can make a huge difference
I was running almost street pads on the Pantera for many years
and last year moved to a more race type pad.. car stops even
better by a long shot...

65 GT350r cars... back in the day were 2650 lbs-race weight
I was going to pull the Windows in Chets car and they
say that was another 90lbs.. I see he took the rear bumper
and pulled it.. I put one on when I bought it... In thinking
the Dart block is a little heavier than the sportsman I destroyed

That car with a 455hp motor (now it is 530hp) would run
with the Porshes all day long.. it was very easy to drive
and a lot of fun...good to see him out there beating on it

Panteracer