64pontiac
02-08-2012, 09:21 AM
Ok guys, I am generally a pretty easy going guy, and we deal with ALL kinds of suspension components at HPI, including designing some of our own, so I am no stranger to how things "should" go......... but lately I have to find out if this is just my bad luck or am I not alone???
We have recently installed several Chris Alston and Total Control products, on chevys and fords, and I am NOT impressed. I am not trying to p*ss off Alston, or slam anyone elses product, especially a company that has been around the block a few times, but I can't understand this:
Attempt #1) Customer brought in a Chevelle project (can be seen in Race Cars section) with an Alston rear clip and suspension package that he bought. The rear frame was WAY out of square (over 3/4 inch over a length of only 4 feet) and the crossbars were all over 4 degrees off. Also, the mandrel bent rails differed at EACH bend by over 2 degrees. Not ever using their product, I phoned them to ask if it was maybe dropped off the truck or something..... immediate response was "our rear clips are not jig welded".
:wow: So we cut up their rear clip and re welded it. While doing this, we found out that the front crossbar/driveshaft loop was 2 inches off center, way more than required if you centered your housing and left the pinion off center. Cut/Weld required.
We are a small shop and we jig everything!! So this kind of scared me...... then we found out that their upper shock tabs were not welded on wide enough for the ALSTON coil overs. cut/weld required. Then the four link bar rod ends were too wide for the front 4 link mounts that were welded to the chassis, but only on one side. Ok back to no jig-welding! Cut/weld required.
Once we were ready to jig up the rear housing in the wheelbase we needed, we tried to adjust the 4 link bars. The threads inside were messed up, had two threads criss crossing. Most guys don't have a 1.25 fine thread tap or a lathe that they can chuck up the bars in...... so re-thread required, as well as cutting down the bars.
The customer was pretty upset with the added costs....so we wrote some supporting documents and pics for him, and Alston did NOTHING. In the end, he was just asking for a free door bar swingout kit (200 bucks) to cover some of his costs, but they wouldn't give it!
I won't even get into the cage kit........
OK.
Attempt #2) 67 mustang fastback, customer wanted TCP front coilover system and rear 4 link. I was going to build the customer a rear 4 link, but he went and ordered this behind my back, so we got married to it...... The front control arms weren't bad, but I would never use spherical rod ends on a street front suspension again ever. We had an issue with one of the ball joints, it was cut right out of the box. Turns out they are mopar ball joints......... anyways! Lots of the usual, re drill and enlarge holes because this and that doesn't fit blah blah..... not bad though.
The rear suspension install was not as fun. Their upper tubular mount, although solid in design, had two flaws. One, it did not fit the factory frame rails tightly, requiring 1/2 inch of plate to take up the gap so we could weld it. Also, the way they designed it, you bolt in the bar (great for the restomod crew right? easily reversible?) but then the frame plates get welded, and guess what, they capture the bar, never to be removed again! So your out of luck if you want to disassemble, paint, coat etc after mockup. So we had to modify the rear cradle to be removable, something that could easily be done by alston.
The subframe connector/brace kit is not very exhaust friendly, but we are pretty good with our exhaust fab and came up with a nice system up to the rear end. Then it hit me like a slap to the face...... you cannot run exhaust over the diff through their suspension. not possible. No way. Period. Partly my fault for not doing it sooner, but you know how it goes building a car on someone elses deadline...... not always the order you would like! So I do some digging...... and even the :hail: Ring Brothers :hail: had to go under the diff with the exhaust. Ok so I'm not on crack, my eyesight is correct. Well with that low of a ride height, I am not a fan of this at all.
On to the motor mounts...... we had their small block ford motor mounts that are supposed to work with a T5.... oh yeah but not if you want to use a t5 bellhousing. That would be unheard of! So we had to re-do the mounts and laser cut different plates that lower the motor.
To me it just seems like there was not alot of forethough put into this system, and every time I have called for a tech tip or to ask questions about issues we are having, I get the cold shoulder.
Now I am really questioning if I ever want an attempt #3..... so I am asking if this is just my bad luck or are some of their products pretty decent? I tend to stick with a few brands of every product, so I really don't want to add them to my distributor list, but sometimes a customer requests specific product........
Any feedback?
We have recently installed several Chris Alston and Total Control products, on chevys and fords, and I am NOT impressed. I am not trying to p*ss off Alston, or slam anyone elses product, especially a company that has been around the block a few times, but I can't understand this:
Attempt #1) Customer brought in a Chevelle project (can be seen in Race Cars section) with an Alston rear clip and suspension package that he bought. The rear frame was WAY out of square (over 3/4 inch over a length of only 4 feet) and the crossbars were all over 4 degrees off. Also, the mandrel bent rails differed at EACH bend by over 2 degrees. Not ever using their product, I phoned them to ask if it was maybe dropped off the truck or something..... immediate response was "our rear clips are not jig welded".
:wow: So we cut up their rear clip and re welded it. While doing this, we found out that the front crossbar/driveshaft loop was 2 inches off center, way more than required if you centered your housing and left the pinion off center. Cut/Weld required.
We are a small shop and we jig everything!! So this kind of scared me...... then we found out that their upper shock tabs were not welded on wide enough for the ALSTON coil overs. cut/weld required. Then the four link bar rod ends were too wide for the front 4 link mounts that were welded to the chassis, but only on one side. Ok back to no jig-welding! Cut/weld required.
Once we were ready to jig up the rear housing in the wheelbase we needed, we tried to adjust the 4 link bars. The threads inside were messed up, had two threads criss crossing. Most guys don't have a 1.25 fine thread tap or a lathe that they can chuck up the bars in...... so re-thread required, as well as cutting down the bars.
The customer was pretty upset with the added costs....so we wrote some supporting documents and pics for him, and Alston did NOTHING. In the end, he was just asking for a free door bar swingout kit (200 bucks) to cover some of his costs, but they wouldn't give it!
I won't even get into the cage kit........
OK.
Attempt #2) 67 mustang fastback, customer wanted TCP front coilover system and rear 4 link. I was going to build the customer a rear 4 link, but he went and ordered this behind my back, so we got married to it...... The front control arms weren't bad, but I would never use spherical rod ends on a street front suspension again ever. We had an issue with one of the ball joints, it was cut right out of the box. Turns out they are mopar ball joints......... anyways! Lots of the usual, re drill and enlarge holes because this and that doesn't fit blah blah..... not bad though.
The rear suspension install was not as fun. Their upper tubular mount, although solid in design, had two flaws. One, it did not fit the factory frame rails tightly, requiring 1/2 inch of plate to take up the gap so we could weld it. Also, the way they designed it, you bolt in the bar (great for the restomod crew right? easily reversible?) but then the frame plates get welded, and guess what, they capture the bar, never to be removed again! So your out of luck if you want to disassemble, paint, coat etc after mockup. So we had to modify the rear cradle to be removable, something that could easily be done by alston.
The subframe connector/brace kit is not very exhaust friendly, but we are pretty good with our exhaust fab and came up with a nice system up to the rear end. Then it hit me like a slap to the face...... you cannot run exhaust over the diff through their suspension. not possible. No way. Period. Partly my fault for not doing it sooner, but you know how it goes building a car on someone elses deadline...... not always the order you would like! So I do some digging...... and even the :hail: Ring Brothers :hail: had to go under the diff with the exhaust. Ok so I'm not on crack, my eyesight is correct. Well with that low of a ride height, I am not a fan of this at all.
On to the motor mounts...... we had their small block ford motor mounts that are supposed to work with a T5.... oh yeah but not if you want to use a t5 bellhousing. That would be unheard of! So we had to re-do the mounts and laser cut different plates that lower the motor.
To me it just seems like there was not alot of forethough put into this system, and every time I have called for a tech tip or to ask questions about issues we are having, I get the cold shoulder.
Now I am really questioning if I ever want an attempt #3..... so I am asking if this is just my bad luck or are some of their products pretty decent? I tend to stick with a few brands of every product, so I really don't want to add them to my distributor list, but sometimes a customer requests specific product........
Any feedback?