Butt Splicing

[JohnUlaszek]

We've updated the II Much Blog with a thrilling post on Butt Splicing!

Ok, maybe its not thrilling, but one of those things I wish I'd have known about when I got started.

Butt Splice Like a Boss! (http://blog.iimuchfabrication.com/?p=473)

http://blog.iimuchfabrication.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/IMG_0506.jpg

[GrabberGT]

hmmm. non-insulated butt slices. Didnt even know there was such a thing.

[JohnUlaszek]

hmmm. non-insulated butt slices. Didnt even know there was such a thing.

Wild, I know. lol. Thats why we are doing the blog, to try and cover those little tips and tricks that we had to learn the hard way.

[randy]

i was nervous at first to click on this topic. I had to make sure it wasnt in the off topic section lol.

thank you for the info

[JohnUlaszek]

i was nervous at first to click on this topic. I had to make sure it wasnt in the off topic section lol.

thank you for the info

LOL. I took the joke as far as I could without stepping over the line. Glad I'm not the only one who went there....

[DEIGuy38]

I take the insulated ones and a razor knife and remove the insulation. I have used heat shrink with silicon inside.

[130fe]

I would do the same thing as Guy did. Glad to see you can buy them in bulk, makes the process easier. Thanks for the info guys!

[samckitt]

100 packs of non insulated splice connectors are available on Amazon too.

16-14 ga $4.20 http://www.amazon.com/Non-Insulated-Butt-Connectors-16-14-gauge/dp/B000W20ZVK/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1362504024&sr=8-17&keywords=butt+splice

22-18 ga $3.43 http://www.amazon.com/Non-Insulated-Butt-Connectors-22-18-gauge/dp/B000W20ZVA/ref=pd_sim_auto_1

10-12 ga $7.10 http://www.amazon.com/Non-Insulated-Butt-Connectors-10-12-gauge/dp/B000W1YAZ8/ref=pd_sim_auto_2

Shrink tubing http://www.amazon.com/Anytime-SHRINK-TUBING-SLEEVES-ASSORTED/dp/B005W42SW2/ref=pd_sim_auto_4

[130fe]

Scot, thanks for the links!

[intocarss]

took me a few days to get the nerve up to open this thread I was :confused59:

[GregWeld]

Sorry -- Someone please tell me this isn't, or hasn't been, common knowledge for like -- YEARS.... :bitchslap: :lol:


Most Pros use the uninsulated butt connectors, they're readily available - and heat shrink it. I personally have about half a zillion feet of various sizes of shrink tube in all the colors so that you don't even see the splice.

I'm glad that others are discovering this because there's nothing uglier than a bunch of sore thumb looking splices...

[96z28ss]

Sorry -- Someone please tell me this isn't, or hasn't been, common knowledge for like -- YEARS.... :bitchslap: :lol:


Most Pros use the uninsulated butt connectors, they're readily available - and heat shrink it. I personally have about half a zillion feet of various sizes of shrink tube in all the colors so that you don't even see the splice.

I'm glad that others are discovering this because there's nothing uglier than a bunch of sore thumb looking splices...

yep started using them about 15 years ago. Before that I'd solder the wires and shrink wrap them.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

me too but i still drop in a pinch of solder then shrink. I need to befriend a Canadian so I can score some more ES2000.

[rocketrod]

me too but i still drop in a pinch of solder then shrink. I need to befriend a Canadian so I can score some more ES2000.Same here. Crimped only connections, can be problematic long term, but dab of solder fixes it.

I have been buying the non-insulated butt splices at the local Radio Shack for years. Not as cheap as ordering on line, but they are local and can be picked up when needed.

[JMitch19]

These are also a very nice product and you will never have to worry about them coming apart. I've tried to pull them apart and you end ripping the insulation on the wire the glue is so strong. They make them in many different sizes as well as ring terminals.

http://www.waytekwire.com/item/30980/MOLEX-PERMA-SEAL-BUTT/

I think for an install that maybe seen John's method a much more attractive and professional way of doing a buttsplice though.

[JohnUlaszek]

Same here. Crimped only connections, can be problematic long term, but dab of solder fixes it.

I've not had any long term trouble going without solder, but I'm curious what kind of trouble you have run into and in what applications.

[JohnUlaszek]

These are also a very nice product and you will never have to worry about them coming apart. I've tried to pull them apart and you end ripping the insulation on the wire the glue is so strong. They make them in many different sizes as well as ring terminals.

http://www.waytekwire.com/item/30980/MOLEX-PERMA-SEAL-BUTT/

I think for an install that maybe seen John's method a much more attractive and professional way of doing a buttsplice though.

We mention these in the blog post. You're right, they are quite nice but 10x the price of the non-insulated method. You do get a better crimp than the hardware store type, but you still run the risk of damaging the insulation during crimping.

As far as pull-out goes, it really pays to have quality crimpers.

[Vegas69]

GM training specified a solder with shrink wrap or a butt connector that self sealed with heat. I personally feel a cheap butt connector and shrink wrap could be problematic in a moisture area. I just don't think shrink wrap seals that well and the connection patch is small and could be problematic with a small amount of corrosion vs. a solder. I'd use a weather tight butt connector in any area that could see water or a solder connection. Keep in mind, this is something you won't have a problem with in a few years. It would need to get wet a few times and could take 10, 15, 20 years the way these cars get driven.

[JMitch19]

I've not had any long term trouble going without solder, but I'm curious what kind of trouble you have run into and in what applications.

I can't answer for RocketRod, but I work for a company that manufactures harnesses and electrical products for the aftermarket. We see problems a lot when people don't provide the wire with any type of strain relief. Where the bare copper wire goes into the butt splice it gets flexed until it fatigues and fails. Heat shrinking the splice as you showed will provide the needed strain relief. We use the method you showed as well as the perma-seal splices in a production environment, and I'd be surprised if I've had more than 4 returns for this type of failure in the last 3 years. We don't soldier our splices, but we do have the proper tools which helps a lot.

We mention these in the blog post. You're right, they are quite nice but 10x the price of the non-insulated method. You do get a better crimp than the hardware store type, but you still run the risk of damaging the insulation during crimping.

As far as pull-out goes, it really pays to have quality crimpers.

Completely agree. I guess I'm spoiled and never took price into account. We buy the perma-seals in such bulk quantities I just grab them off the shelve when I need them for personal use.

[JohnUlaszek]

From the GM Upfitter Guide (http://www.gmupfitter.com/publicat/electrical.pdf) (Page D-17)discusses electrical best practices for crimping and splicing.

3. Crimp the splice sleeve on each end. Each wire must be crimped individually. For proper placement, see Figure 28. (Note: Use the appropriate crimp tool designed specifically to use with both crimp-and-seal and butt-splice sleeves.)

The method we discuss in the blog uses a high quality 3M splice with marine type heat shrink to seal the joint.

[GregWeld]

The reason that the OEM'S DO NOT SOLDER their connections - EVER - is that heating the copper embrittles it... and then you have the softer copper right at the end of the soldered connection which becomes the break point. Solder is used to attach wires etc to circuit boards. It's never used in a Marine or Automotive environment.


Trust me that you'll have a far better crimp using the uninsulated butt connectors (uninsulated terminals period) using FAR LESS pressure - over the insulated versions... and all the shrink tube I use is GLUED type. So moisture is never an issue as well as it provides the strain relief at the connection.

No wires should EVER be hanging - or be allowed to vibrate or chafe.


Here's an example of proper wiring....




http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Wiring/file.jpg









And one of how not to do it......:bitchslap: :bang: :lol:








http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Wiring/file-1.jpg

[96z28ss]

The reason that the OEM'S DO NOT SOLDER their connections - EVER - is that heating the copper embrittles it... and then you have the softer copper right at the end of the soldered connection which becomes the break point. Solder is used to attach wires etc to circuit boards. It's never used in a Marine or Automotive environment.


Trust me that you'll have a far better crimp using the uninsulated butt connectors (uninsulated terminals period) using FAR LESS pressure - over the insulated versions... and all the shrink tube I use is GLUED type. So moisture is never an issue as well as it provides the strain relief at the connection.




I've take a few factory OEM harness apart to piggy back a Fast ECM in. The OE do use solder on the harness. Some times its 2 or 3 wires going into one wire they use a crimp and then solder over it.

[GregWeld]

I've take a few factory OEM harness apart to piggy back a Fast ECM in. The OE do use solder on the harness. Some times its 2 or 3 wires going into one wire they use a crimp and then solder over it.



Okay -- I'll give you that one. Mostly because there's not really a good way to marry a three into one... other than going to a block with jumpers etc and we know they're not going to do that -- and it's not a very good solution to begin with.

I've done 'em that way myself before -- and never liked it but sometimes there's just not a better way. It's not a perfect world is it.

[Vegas69]

I've heard you say that 100 times now Weld, you were wrong every time including this one. :D

[GregWeld]

I've heard you say that 100 times now Weld, you were wrong every time including this one. :D



To imply that OEMS solder their connections - of any kind - is wrong and misleading particularly in a forum that is read by many people of various skill levels.

One or two soldered connections - such as the type mentioned by Bob are atypical (meaning rarely or unorthodox). Soldering a stranded wire that is used for it's flexiblity - just turned that point into a solid core wire (as used to wire a house rather than a car).

Once in a great while it might be necessary to make a junction this way but it certainly isn't the common way to wire a car or marine application and is the wrong way for 99.99% of the connectors or butt splices used in autos.

Why try to confuse those that are less knowledgeable just to argue about the one splice in one harness where's it's okay to solder that point?

[Vegas69]

Sure, in a perfect world you wouldn't need a solder connection or butt splice. The OEM's have the benefit of having wiring harnesses designed for mass production. It's my opinion that a solder connection is extremely strong and reliable. You do it your way, and I'll do it mine. If it's a crucial connection, I'll solder and shrink it. I'd also argue that the voltage drop across a butt splice is larger than a solder connection which can be crucial in many instances.

[barrrf]

Sure, in a perfect world you wouldn't need a solder connection or butt splice. The OEM's have the benefit of having wiring harnesses designed for mass production. It's my opinion that a solder connection is extremely strong and reliable. You do it your way, and I'll do it mine. If it's a crucial connection, I'll solder and shrink it. I'd also argue that the voltage drop across a butt splice is larger than a solder connection which can be crucial in many instances.

That voltage drop is very easy thing to test. No point in arguing it when any one with a multimeter can test both ways.

But since we're arguing, Id argue the voltage drop across either is negligible at most because its such a short distance for the voltage to travel.

[Vegas69]

Bart, I'm aware of how you measure a voltage drop. :D

[ccracin]

I twist the wires together and use wire nuts with electrical tape. I have never had a problem, ever. I promise.......:bang: :bitchslap: :poke:

Just to add another industry to the mix for reference, I worked in the transportation industry for years. We built people movers and light rail transit vehicles. Soldering wire splices or terminals in general was prohibited unless specifically reviewed and approved. These were government contract specifications. The reasons were as Greg mentioned as well as degrading the integrity of the insulation due to heat. As with many things, crimp joints must be done correctly with the proper terminals and corresponding tool. When done properly the voltage drop is so low that most multimeters we have in our garages are not sensitive enough to read it consistently. In the end, solderless crimp terminals were engineered to eliminate the undesirable characteristics of the soldered joint. The previous is fact.

The following is opinion. I personally think it is more difficult to make good consistent soldered joints under a dash, in a tail light hole, etc. than a crimp joint. In the end if you have a method that works and is proven for you than so be it. But for those that do not and are looking for information regarding a way to proceed, I recommend solderless crimp terminals. The information John presented is very good and is a good start for those looking to learn.

:popcorn2:

[GregWeld]

I twist the wires together and use wire nuts with electrical tape. I have never had a problem, ever. I promise.......:bang: :bitchslap: :poke:




Yeah! But are you doing a "tap" -- "twist" -- or a "western union"....


Let's see if any of ya can figure out what a "western union" is. Bunch of friggin' newbs! :hello: :whistling:

[ccracin]

Yeah! But are you doing a "tap" -- "twist" -- or a "western union"....


Let's see if any of ya can figure out what a "western union" is. Bunch of friggin' newbs! :hello: :whistling:

You mean the lineman splice that tightens as you pull on it? Oh, say to put a telegraph line up? Just a guess! Us youngins have heard a few things! :trophy-1302:

[Vegas69]

I twist the wires together and use wire nuts with electrical tape. I have never had a problem, ever. I promise.......:bang: :bitchslap: :poke:

Just to add another industry to the mix for reference, I worked in the transportation industry for years. We built people movers and light rail transit vehicles. Soldering wire splices or terminals in general was prohibited unless specifically reviewed and approved. These were government contract specifications. The reasons were as Greg mentioned as well as degrading the integrity of the insulation due to heat. As with many things, crimp joints must be done correctly with the proper terminals and corresponding tool. When done properly the voltage drop is so low that most multimeters we have in our garages are not sensitive enough to read it consistently. In the end, solderless crimp terminals were engineered to eliminate the undesirable characteristics of the soldered joint. The previous is fact.

The following is opinion. I personally think it is more difficult to make good consistent soldered joints under a dash, in a tail light hole, etc. than a crimp joint. In the end if you have a method that works and is proven for you than so be it. But for those that do not and are looking for information regarding a way to proceed, I recommend solderless crimp terminals. The information John presented is very good and is a good start for those looking to learn.

:popcorn2:

Totally agree, whether using solder or butt connectors, it's the sum of the parts, tools, and brains behind the operation. Either will likely work fine in this venue.

When I think butt connector, I think nickel and dime connectors with a walmart 9.99 crimper. Come on, everybody has them and is what will likely be used in 99% of weekend warrior projects.

Clearly, there are places where soldering is just not an option and a failure of the circuit isn't the end of the world.

Moral of the story, do what you are most capable of doing well.

[GregWeld]

You mean the lineman splice that tightens as you pull on it? Oh, say to put a telegraph line up? Just a guess! Us youngins have heard a few things! :trophy-1302:




BUTT head......





:trophy-1302:

[GregWeld]

We -- real men -- use the western union -- aka Lineman -- to do pyro connections.... It takes a bit more time but when you're running line all over a barge -- it tends to get pulled on / tripped on / snagged....


A "western union" wont pull apart very easy compared to a "twist"...


BTW --- SORRY TO JOHN for jacking his thread -- but we've managed to keep it coming to the top right?!?!?!?

[ccracin]

BUTT head......





:trophy-1302:

:mock: :thumbsup:

[Sieg]

We -- real men -- use the western union -- aka Lineman -- to do pyro connections.... It takes a bit more time but when you're running line all over a barge -- it tends to get pulled on / tripped on / snagged....


A "western union" wont pull apart very easy compared to a "twist"...


BTW --- SORRY TO JOHN for jacking his thread -- but we've managed to keep it coming to the top right?!?!?!?

:mock: :thumbsup:

Butt-splicing Western Union Thread-jackers............. :disgusted:

[Garage Dog 65]

In aviation we use environmental crimp splices like those listed in above posts. As stated they are spendy.

An inexpensive option that I have used is the metal butt splice - shrink wrap - and inject a dab of the proper heat range/environment condition RTV. Heat shrink and wipe off the excess.

Jim

[GregWeld]

Jim ---


Is using Preparation H as a sealant proper in a butt splice??



Joking....


Why wouldn't you just use the glued shrink tube??? And skip all the extra steps?

[intocarss]

Jim ---


Is using Preparation H as a sealant proper in a butt splice??



This is the reason people are scared to open this thread :rules:

[JohnUlaszek]

In aviation we use environmental crimp splices like those listed in above posts. As stated they are spendy.

An inexpensive option that I have used is the metal butt splice - shrink wrap - and inject a dab of the proper heat range/environment condition RTV. Heat shrink and wipe off the excess.

Jim

Its worth mentioning, that if you feel the need to use RTV on any part of your car, you really want to use a non-corrosive product. Aircraft guys do that as standard operating procedure, but not all home builders are aware of the acetic acid in the typical home depot products.

Never thought a :action-smiley-027: Splice thread could be so exciting.

[samckitt]

100 packs of non insulated splice connectors are available on Amazon too.

16-14 ga $4.20 http://www.amazon.com/Non-Insulated-Butt-Connectors-16-14-gauge/dp/B000W20ZVK/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1362504024&sr=8-17&keywords=butt+splice

22-18 ga $3.43 http://www.amazon.com/Non-Insulated-Butt-Connectors-22-18-gauge/dp/B000W20ZVA/ref=pd_sim_auto_1

10-12 ga $7.10 http://www.amazon.com/Non-Insulated-Butt-Connectors-10-12-gauge/dp/B000W1YAZ8/ref=pd_sim_auto_2

Shrink tubing http://www.amazon.com/Anytime-SHRINK-TUBING-SLEEVES-ASSORTED/dp/B005W42SW2/ref=pd_sim_auto_4

I did order these the other day & they have serrations inside to grip the wire better.

[GregWeld]

Remember these little barrels don't use the same crimp style that the insulated versions do -- so look at your crimpers and use the "jaw" that is for non insulated. You don't want to smash these... they just take a little dimple -- and they retain their barrel shape. If you've smashed it oval -- you'll have a bad crimp.

[snappytravis]

I can't believe how many post there can possibly be on butt splicing, Then I see you guys are on Welds, Butt, The guy is pretty knowledgable cut him a little slack, not much just a little.
Oh yes we have google in wyoming.
38695

[Vegas69]

I can't believe how many post there can possibly be on butt splicing, Then I see you guys are on Welds, Butt, The guy is pretty knowledgable cut him a little slack, not much just a little.
Oh yes we have google in wyoming.
38695

Ya right....

[JohnUlaszek]

Then I see you guys are on Welds, Butt


Ok guys, stay focused we're talking about Butt Splices, not Butt Welds

[GregWeld]

Ok guys, stay focused we're talking about Butt Splices, not Butt Welds



That would be MISTER Butt Weld to you guys.....:mock:

[RdHuggr68]

Where can I order some quality heat shrink tubing?
Kevin

[GregWeld]

Where can I order some quality heat shrink tubing?
Kevin





http://www.buyheatshrink.com/heatshrinktubing/4to1adhesive.htm

[RdHuggr68]

http://www.buyheatshrink.com/heatshrinktubing/4to1adhesive.htm

Thanks for the info Greg :thankyou:

[GriffithMetal]

Here is some good crimp info from Molex.
http://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/ats/TM-640160065.pdf

I prefer the non insulated crimp covered with heat shrink. It makes for compact, quality splices.

[JohnUlaszek]

Here is some good crimp info from Molex.
http://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/ats/TM-640160065.pdf

I prefer the non insulated crimp covered with heat shrink. It makes for compact, quality splices.

That's a great resource. Going to add that link to the blog post. thanks!

[grif54]

I was just wondering if anyone could suggest a good quality crimper? I was looking at some at Grainger a couple of weeks ago but didn't get one yet. Thanks

[GriffithMetal]

I was just wondering if anyone could suggest a good quality crimper? I was looking at some at Grainger a couple of weeks ago but didn't get one yet. Thanks

If you want something that is inexpensive and will work for both non-insulated and insulated wires I'd recommend the Klein 1005 crimp tool.

Waytek sells some nice crimping tools as well as McMaster. Parts express has a good selection too. I don't give my business to Grainger.