BluePrint Engines Pro Series Chevy LS 427

[Gofast]

I have been looking at this engine from blue print engines. Has anyone ran one of these or know anything about the company.

http://blueprintengines.com/index.php/gm-427-ls-ctf-engine-specs

[dduke2]

I am interested also.. Please post feedback.

[BluePrint Engines]

Gofast and dduke2,

I wanted to come on here and let you know if you have any specific questions about the LS engine please let me know and I will be glad to help.

Thanks,

Andrew Obermeier
BluePrint Engines

[email protected]

[bowtienewbie]

Hey guys... working on a new to me '69 Maro and came across your post. I was looking at the 427 from blueprint also. I've been looking around for awhile and came across this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7epehLbatCo

Which later lead me to this:

http://www.streetlegaltv.com/project-cars/project-blueprint-chevelle/project-blueprint-chevelle-build-thread-update/

I found a couple of other posts from guys with their LS. Yellow Bullet maybe?? If I find them I will post.

I'm still about 6 months out but need to start saving now for it!

[XLexusTech]

Gofast and dduke2,

I wanted to come on here and let you know if you have any specific questions about the LS engine please let me know and I will be glad to help.

Thanks,

Andrew Obermeier
BluePrint Engines
Product Specialist
1.800.483.4263 ext # 138
[email protected]
Andrew, do you offer 500 HP ls3 options? anything in the 6-8K range?
Also those muscle car pans stick down too low in the Gen1 F body.. do you offer options?

[Gofast]

I just ordered a engine this week from blue print I got the 427 retro fit fuel injection one

[XLexusTech]

I just ordered a engine this week from blue print I got the 427 retro fit fuel injection one
Awesome... keep us posted on how you make out... what harness and pan are you using and whats it going into?

[carbuff]

Personally I would love to see some dyno plots on the various engines, but particularly the 427 with the 4-barrel EFI setup. That's similar to what I'm using in my car, but it's good to know what I may want to step up to in the future. ;)

[Gofast]

Awesome... keep us posted on how you make out... what harness and pan are you using and whats it going into?

I'm putting it in a 1970 CST 10 with a t56 It comes with a harness and oil pan it should fit i will find out soon i will post it in the truck section soon I'm currently boxing the frame in.

[dduke2]

Hey guys... working on a new to me '69 Maro and came across your post. I was looking at the 427 from blueprint also. I've been looking around for awhile and came across this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7epehLbatCo

Which later lead me to this:

http://www.streetlegaltv.com/project-cars/project-blueprint-chevelle/project-blueprint-chevelle-build-thread-update/

I found a couple of other posts from guys with their LS. Yellow Bullet maybe?? If I find them I will post.

I'm still about 6 months out but need to start saving now for it!


I am also 6 months out. I will post pictures of build.. Again thanks

[dduke2]

I just ordered a engine this week from blue print I got the 427 retro fit fuel injection one

Please keep me posted. I should be ready in 6 months. I have a 68 camaro ss

[BluePrint Engines]

Hey guys I wanted to get back on and give you an update, I did just add a video of the PSLS4242CTF running on the dyno to our YouTube page, here is the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wtOJmqXnLw

XLexusTech,
Currently we are only offering the 427ci LS3 and they all are going to be right at the 625HP range but we do have some LS options still in R&D that will be based off of the iron block. We know the GM muscle car pan is far from optimum, so we have engineered and designed a new pan from the ground up, it has improved baffling and improved flow to and from the filter. We're getting the foundry molds made and we should have our first castings in a couple months. I think you will like the new design!

Andrew Obermeier
BluePrint Engines

[email protected]

[71RS/SS396]

Whose crank and rods do you use? I don't see a name listed in your specs.

[vstol]

I am leaning this way as well. Andrew looking for the dyno sheets on both the FI and Carb LS3 427's. On your web site they are the same hp but on the Jegs web site the FI is 585hp? Thanks Kevin

[Gofast]

Today I received my LS engine from Blue Print. This thing is awesome, it came with all sensors, ECU, wiring harness, Header gaskets and a drive-by wire GM gas pedal. I'm really impressed with the dyno sheet. Also the engine on their website says it has 625 HP 565 ft/lbs. When I looked at the dyno sheet with my engine I have 632.2 HP and 601.6 ft/lbs, which is pretty cool to get an extra 7.2 HP and 33.9 ft/lbs. I also need to say that their customer service was excellent. One of the coils had a chip on it, which I'm guessing from shipping, so I called up Andrew Obermeier BluePrint Engines Product Specialist, who commented on this forum "if you need any help just ask". I called and left a message for him and in less than 15 minutes he called me back and gave me a claim # and said the part will ship out tomorrow. I'm really happy with the engine and all the extras and would recommend them to everyone looking to get a bad ass LS motor.

39067 39068 39069 39070 39071 39072 39073

[Sieg]

Happy Days!

Looking forward to the driving impressions. :thumbsup:

[Todd in vancouver]

Really nice looking set-up. An LS427 is in my future so please keep adding to this thread after you get it in and running with your impressions. I'm impressed to hear how they handled your concerns because that is the type of company I want to do business with.

[MarkM66]

Looks like a nice choice. For the price per power, and weight, it'd be hard to beat.

[XLexusTech]

I have heard over stroked LS3's were prone to heat problems. Is this Engine config a risky one?

[Gatekeeper]

Very nice engine build. :thumbsup:

[FIFTY-FIVE]

Very nice engine package. Quite impressive for the price!

[vstol]

so how is it coming along

[Gofast]

It's going good I'm almost done boxing the frame in and after that I will mount the engine and make the template for the t56 cross member. I will post pictures when I have it on the frame.

[vstol]

thanks I just got my car back (below) so I am a few months out. Kevin

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-tech-performance/2760415-71-l-88-replica-kinda.html

[vstol]

any more updates

[6D9]

I'm interested to in what crank/rods/pistons are in it.

[coolwelder62]

I believe they using Scat product's.

[RdHuggr68]

I believe they using Scat product's.

I asked Blueprint the same question,never got an answer back, I have heard more negative comments than positive. Anybody have different comments on Scat? :hairpullout:

[camcojb]

I asked Blueprint the same question,never got an answer back, I have heard more negative comments than positive. Anybody have different comments on Scat? :hairpullout:
A machinist/builder that I completely trust has no problem using Scat in builds that cannot afford or need the higher end stuff. Of course he always measures everything just to verify which should always be done regardless of the quality or cost of the parts used.

[MarkM66]

I'd be more concerned with the machinist/builder then the name. Even if it's not 100% correct, he'll be able to realize that, then fix it.

[Flash68]

The Scat crankshaft forging is made in China, and I personally know that Brian Thomson of Thomson Automotive wouldn't use a Scat crank. Brian tests all the parts out and is very selective on the parts. You machinist could check everything, and the crank would fail because of the poor quality forgings from china. It is based on the quality of the material.

Jeff

I am wanting a made in the USA argument to erupt here, but like it or not, the Chinese forgings aren't all as bad as many make out. And a lot of the Chinese products are getting better every day, whether it's widgets or car parts. That is just reality.

Callies Compstar rods and cranks are used by many good engine builders and they are a good product, to name one.

[garickman]

Callie Compstar rods are made at Japan Kobe. I spent lot of time talking to Brain Thomson on parts. Brian doesn't like the Callie Rods, but has used them in engines. Actually, he said that they make the worse rod in the industry. He prefers Oliver, Crower, and Carrillo rods. So how do you know Callie rods are quality part? Brian Thomson tests engines for GM and see's when parts will fail in engine. I have Crower parts in my engine. Crower uses Pacific Forge http://www.pacificforge.com/whypacificforge.html

I never forget buying a Chinese Grade 8 bolt and seeing it shear in half on the first use. I never buy Chinese products again. Why? China has no quality control!! I have a PhD friend that worked for the Bureau of Mines and said the best iron ore is in the USA. I rather not put the American worker out of work.

Jeff

I have Callies Ultra XD rods in my LS7 that Wegner Motorsports just built. Both Brian Thomson and the lead engine builder Gary Nelson from Wegner told me they were one of the best rods on the market. According to Callies, there Ultra rods are 100% USA, forged in Michigan and fully machined in there Ohio facility.

[Flash68]

Callie Compstar rods are made at Japan Kobe. I spent lot of time talking to Brain Thomson on parts. Brian doesn't like the Callie Rods, but has used them in engines. Actually, he said that they make the worse rod in the industry. He prefers Oliver, Crower, and Carrillo rods. So how do you know Callie rods are quality part? Brian Thomson tests engines for GM and see's when parts will fail in engine. I have Crower parts in my engine. Crower uses Pacific Forge http://www.pacificforge.com/whypacificforge.html

I never forget buying a Chinese Grade 8 bolt and seeing it shear in half on the first use. I never buy Chinese products again. Why? China has no quality control!! I have a PhD friend that worked for the Bureau of Mines and said the best iron ore is in the USA. I rather not put the American worker out of work.

Jeff

I know Thomson is a reputable shop, but I guess if Brian Thompson doesn't/won't use it then it must be junk. :rolleyes:

My point is -- and the Blueprint engines are an example -- there are plenty of value oriented parts out there.

And who wouldn't "prefer" an Oliver, a Crower, or a Carrillo? Not everyone is building a $25-30k engine.

[camcojb]

The Scat crankshaft forging is made in China and shipped to the USA for finishing by SCAT, and I personally know that Brian Thomson of Thomson Automotive wouldn't use a Scat crank. Brian tests all the parts out and is very selective on the parts. You machinist could check everything, and the crank would fail because of the poor quality forgings from china. It is based on the quality of the material.

Jeff
I doubt Brian said it "would" fail, but I'll give you that it "could" fail. So can Oliver billet rods, and so can ANY high performance part regardless of quality or price. I built a 482 ZL1 engine for a friends Camaro 5 years ago. And somehow that Scat crank is still hanging in there with multiple 7000+ rpm blasts. I'm surprised that it hasn't broken in half yet............ :lol:

[Vegas69]

I put a Callies Compstar in my ZL1. When I think of Scat, I think cheap and couldn't bring myself to use one in such a high end engine. I really don't know if a huge benefit exists, I just like Callies reputation in crankshafts. With that being said, a Scat is more than adequate for your average hot rodder or drag racer. You do need to start sourcing higher quality pieces when it comes to an all out application like a road racer.

[camcojb]

Any crankshaft can fail based on too high rpms, but if the part is made inferior then it will fail. Scat crank at 7000 rpm is still with the stated specs. My friend took his big block to 8000 rpm, and the Lunati Pro series crank is still going strong after 13 years. Tell your friend to take to 8,000 rpms and see on how long your scat crank lasts. :rofl: The engine has been rebuilt a few times, but he bought a quality USA made crankshaft. The latest upgrade he bought some expensive heads, but he has made 1100 horsepower and 900ft/lbs of torque.

Actually, he has bought cheap parts in the past for drag racing his 69 Camaro, and he had to replace them more times than buying quality parts.
So, in the end it costs you more in racing.

In this thread, though, I go for the LS7. The LS7 can be upgraded in the future for more power.
Apples and oranges Jeff. An 8000 rpm big block is different than a 7000 rpm setup. Few people would recommend a Scat crank in an 8000 rpm big block. He wasn't building an all out engine, just a nice pump gas big block that was fun to drive. So far it's worked fine, and has worked fine in many other street engines.

I've spent plenty of money in the past with the best parts, but those were for max effort builds. You cannot expect (and don't need) the best parts in EVERY build.

[GregWeld]

You cannot expect (and don't need) the best parts in EVERY build.



Spot on Jody! I bought a Smeding crate motor for my '32 Ford... a motor I wouldn't DARE or even think about putting in the Mustang for the track. But it's "plenty" and "just fine" for the light little roadster to cruise around with.

[camcojb]

You can also buy OEM crankshaft from GM. In this thread, it was an LS engine. Although, you have seemed to switched it to a big block. The OEM manufacturer tests their products more than aftermarket products. So, if you was building a LS3 427 then would you chose a Chinese Scat crank or OEM GM crankshaft.

Scat is cheaper, but only about $60. = Summit price is $797 for 4.0 Stroke crankshaft.

LS7 Crankshaft is $859.

http://www.newgmparts.com/partlocator/index.cfm?action=AccessoryCatalog&siteid=213815&catalogid=7682&categoryid=164026&subcat1=164038&subcat2=164086&startrow=6

Blueprint doesn't list their stroke, but to get to a 427 with LS3. Most engine builders are using a 4.125 stroke crank, which cost is more. $1,037.
Jeff
I was speaking of Scat in general, and related it to one used in an engine I assembled. Nothing more.

[coolwelder62]

I don't believe the Blueprint LS-427 is an all out road race power plant.I believe it would make an Pro-touring,goodguy autoX motor.I think if you want an 8000RPM full race motor you look at SB2/R07,or if money not a problem then a high reving KaTech LS dry sump style motor.

[camcojb]

No, I think you miss the point that was I trying to make. Jody stated that he had built one engine with SCAT crank (Chinese crank), and never had an issue with it. I have recently found 2 engine builders that have built 5 engines each, so 10 engines. The Scat cranks had failed in engine. Horsepower on the engines were 370hp. Scat put out this disclaimer on the breaking the nose crankshaft. http://www.scatcrankshafts.com/scattechpdfs/Break_the_Nose.pdf Anyway. If my goal was a 427, then the LS7 would better choice. One reason is better resale than an LS3.

Jeff
Actually what I said was that an engine builder who I trust uses them in his lower dollar builds and has no problems. They are not LS engines however, mostly big block Chevy's. ;)

[Che70velle]

I saw the nose break off of a $3000 Winberg once, while working at a shop that built cup engines. I've also had my but handed to me by guys running scat cranks in their engines. I know this because the builder I used at that time used either Callies or Scat, depending on your budget, and built many engines in that class. I went Callies, of course, but I never saw a scat crank fail in the class I raced in, which was NASCAR asphalt late model. We turned around 7800 to 8000. I'd run a scat crank today to save some coin. The costs are out of control to keep it "American".

[camcojb]

Oh, the engines were small block chevy, not LS engine that broke the cranks.
Read the post above yours, seems they can live in some pretty hard running high rpm motors too. Parts can and will fail, no matter the maker or quality/price. I would still not be afraid of their parts in a budget build. I have never used their parts in a max effort build, nor would I recommend them for that. But I also won't call them crap either. There are plenty of crappy Chinese parts out there for sure, but I don't put them in that same category.

[Ron in SoCal]

Sparky I get it, you like good parts. I do too...:D

I personally know a respected race engine builder that has used Scat in LS motors that see occasional drag racing. One in the 600, the other in the 800 hp range. AFAIK they've held up just fine. They do require precision checking and machining.

Do they balance out ok? You bet.

Like others have said, would I use it in an extreme duty/max effort or road race build? I personally wouldn't.

Are they OK for a street motor? Sure!

Everyone has their opinion of parts. Vote with your wallet.

Just my .03

Can 'o worms warning: Aren't Compstars and Dragonslayers made in China and finished here? Those are in many, many builds over on LS1Tech.

[Flash68]

Here is what my engine builder had on the dyno on Friday when we stopped to pick up my little POS.

This one may not have a Callies crank in it but he does use them and approves of them in other builds. Like Ron said most of their line is manufactured overseas but is finished here. And any engine builder worth his salt will check all of that on his own equipment anyway.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/flash68/null_zps7582c9f9.jpg (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/flash68/media/null_zps7582c9f9.jpg.html)

Oh, and this Pro Stock 650" only made 1015 ft lbs and 1430 hp.

[GregWeld]

Why does SCAT go to China instead of making in the USA? It is Greed! The question is how much that crank cost from China? Then they price it a little cheaper than GM part. I am from a former GM town (Kettering, Oh. You might have heard of DELCO), but I seen the affects of companies that have left the USA to get lower labor costs. My friends that worked at GM lost their jobs. So, maybe you guys might think about that next time you save a few bucks.



I don't want to get into a political discussion in your crankshaft thread -- but there's always two ways to see the same issue.... and GREED may have been behind the unions that drive labor costs so high that it forces companies to shop elsewhere. At some point the balance gets tipped and someone goes looking for a job.

I agree with you that greed and penny pinching by the RETAIL customer is also what drives these decisions. I personally will do almost anything and spend twice as much to buy USA or NON chinese products... But I know I'm fighting an losing battle there. So much stuff is made offshore anymore. That, to me, is where our government is a complete failure. In the old days we had DUTIES and TARIFFS on these products to keep the playing field even or at least somewhat competitive. Our government decided we didn't need this anymore and that's when the flood gates opened.

Remember Ross Perot -- when he said NAFTA is that giant sucking sound... He was 100% right on the money.


:topic:

[Ron in SoCal]

You can also buy OEM crankshaft from GM. In this thread, it was an LS engine. Although, you have seemed to switched it to a big block. The OEM manufacturer tests their products more than aftermarket products. So, if you was building a LS3 427 then would you chose a Chinese Scat crank or OEM GM crankshaft.

Scat is cheaper, but only about $60. = Summit price is $797 for 4.0 Stroke crankshaft.

LS7 Crankshaft is $859.

http://www.newgmparts.com/partlocator/index.cfm?action=AccessoryCatalog&siteid=213815&catalogid=7682&categoryid=164026&subcat1=164038&subcat2=164086&startrow=6

Blueprint doesn't list their stroke, but to get to a 427 with LS3. Most engine builders are using a 4.125 stroke crank, which cost is more. $1,037.
Jeff

Oh, you mean...Qinghai Jienshen Crankshaft Mfg, Co. (Scat's China Supplier). No webpage on the company, but it doesn't look like it is attached to any Chinese automotive company.

The other option is a GM crankshaft, which a friend of mine used on his 383 roller small block, it was fast street car/ but he took drag racing as well. He was machinist at local speed shop, but he said that he got the GM cranks cheaper than a Scat Crank. This was awhile ago, but I have compared prices in a previous post and it was only $60 difference for 4" stroke LS crank.

Why does SCAT go to China instead of making in the USA? It is Greed! The question is how much that crank cost from China? Then they price it a little cheaper than GM part. I am from a former GM town (Kettering, Oh. You might have heard of DELCO), but I seen the affects of companies that have left the USA to get lower labor costs. My friends that worked at GM lost their jobs. So, maybe you guys might think about that next time you save a few bucks.


Callie is hard to follow on where is made at. Anyway, I posted that in another post, but I heard that Japan Kobe is the foundry for compstar. Japan Kobe has foundries in China, but other parts of the world.

I heard the Dragonslayer cranks are made in the US, but again I am not 100% sure. I have Crower crankshaft and it is made in USA.

A good article on crankshafts http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/1097/crankshaftsstock_and_performance.aspx

Jeff :flag2:

Jeff your loyalty to American made products and furthering domestic employment is commendable. It is however a bit hard to follow your argument/logic on parts. This thread was about an LS3 427. You then bounced to a BBC, an LS7 and then a 383, all in the name of smashing foreign crankshaft products and purchasers.

The link and price comparison you posted is for a GM LS7 forged crank. This crank would require either machining down the snot to accomodate a wet sump pump or adding a GM dry sump ($$$). The LS7 is also balanced to Ti rods (retail, what $600 a piece?), which would also force you to add mallory to balance the crank adding more $$$.

So let's get back to an LS3427. Which GM crank, non-dry sump is forged?

I seriously don't know, never built one like that.

[GregWeld]

You have your facts a bit wrong. You might look a lobby group called Business Roundtable. It was the Business Roundtable that urged George Bush to initiate free trade with Mexico. China has their own tariffs on imports from US.

Yes, you are off topic!

Jeff


Sorry -- I was only a multi-million dollar per year importer for a number of years in New York City. So I really don't know much about tariffs etc.


Back to which crank you're trying to figure out.

[vstol]

I just ordered a engine this week from blue print I got the 427 retro fit fuel injection one

So how is your motor doing?
Thanks Kevin

[vstol]

Just one more try to get an update, Thanks Kevin

[vstol]

another try is the motor up and running?

[214Chevy]

So how is your motor doing?
Thanks Kevin

Just one more try to get an update, Thanks Kevin

another try is the motor up and running?

vstol, you may try sending him a pm, cuz it show's he hasn't logged in since 10-5-13. And he only has 6 posts in a whole year of starting his membership. So, he doesn't log in much. A pm may send an alert to his email. Hope that helps.

[vstol]

what make are those seats in your post?

[BluePrint Engines]

another try is the motor up and running?

Vstol,

I did try and reach out to GoFast as well from when he originally contacted me, I will let you know if I get any updates from him.

Thanks,

Andrew Obermeier
BluePrint Engines

[email protected]

[BluePrint Engines]

I asked Blueprint the same question,never got an answer back, I have heard more negative comments than positive. Anybody have different comments on Scat? :hairpullout:

RdHuggr68 and Coolwelder62,

Sorry I missed your original questions on here, on our LS427's we are currently using a SCAT rotating assembly with Mahle pistons. Everything will be forged in the rotating assembly, let me know if you have any further questions.

Thanks,

Andrew Obermeier
BluePrint Engines
Product Specialist
[email protected]

[vstol]

Thanks Andy just trying to get some feed back from a few members that have had this motor. I am certainly leaning this way and will be ready in the spring to purchase. I will call you tomorrow
Kevin

[Gofast]

Sorry guys I have not been very active. I am currently in the USAF and doing a 1 year tour in South Korea. My 1970 C10 is doing good it is going in the frame shop sometime in Feb. The cab and bed are at the body shop getting the drip rails removed, doors and fenders gaped, and some other body work. As for the engine it has only been on the frame 2 times for mock up. I will keep you guys updated.

[BluePrint Engines]

Sorry guys I have not been very active. I am currently in the USAF and doing a 1 year tour in South Korea. My 1970 C10 is doing good it is going in the frame shop sometime in Feb. The cab and bed are at the body shop getting the drip rails removed, doors and fenders gaped, and some other body work. As for the engine it has only been on the frame 2 times for mock up. I will keep you guys updated.

GoFast,

Thank you for your service and thank you for the update on your build! Like I said before if you have any issues let me know and I will be happy to help.

Andrew Obermeier
BluePrint Engines
[email protected]

[vstol]

Go fast thanks for your service and update. 27yrs as a Marine I can say Korea is not the garden spot of the world especially in the winter

[214Chevy]

done a what make are those seats in your post?

Recaro's...

[vstol]

thanks