gpmm ls3 controller help

[randy]

Well i just installed my harness today. Everything seems pretty simple. Now i have a few questions i hope you can all help me with. Attached is the instructions

http://paceperformance.com/attachment/117731-.pdf


1. It looks like the ecu controls the fan. How do i connect the two fans to the ecu? are relays already built in for this?

2. the harness connects to the engine coolant temp and oil pressure sensors. The vss connected into the t56 magnum also so how do i get the speedometer and rpm gauges to work? How do i hook them up to my gauges now? Gauges are autometer.

Any advice would be great.

[randy]

I think i might have figured it out.

Oil pressure - Run a wire from the oil pressure gauge to the tan/white strip wire in the bulkhead connector which is position H. Run the ground from the gauge to the M bulkhead connector. I could actually just run one wire from the M bulkhead connector and use that for all of my grounds for my gauges correct?

tach - Run a wire from the gauge to the white wire on the bulkhead which is position C. would i need a ground for this?

Speedometer - Run a wire from the gauge to the brown wire on the bulkhead which is position D. Would i also need a ground for this?

Fuel pump - Looks like theres a wire coming from the fuse box labeled fuel pump according to the instructions. I will check tomorrow. If that is the case then all i have to do is extend that wire to the fuel pump.

Fan power - Looks like the same place the fuel pump line is theres another wire that says cooling fan and is also fused/ relayed. If thats the case running one wire to the front of the car won't be that bad. Maybe ill run that wire into the american autowire fuse panel so i can route it under the fender on the drivers side. What else would be needed to make the fans run?

Now what about coolant temp? Doesn't make sense that the harness is connected to the coolant temp sensor in the side of the block yet theres no where in the bulkhead connector to run a wire to for the gauges.

[dhutton]

I think i might have figured it out.

Oil pressure - Run a wire from the oil pressure gauge to the tan/white strip wire in the bulkhead connector which is position H. Run the ground from the gauge to the M bulkhead connector. I could actually just run one wire from the M bulkhead connector and use that for all of my grounds for my gauges correct?

tach - Run a wire from the gauge to the white wire on the bulkhead which is position C. would i need a ground for this?

Speedometer - Run a wire from the gauge to the brown wire on the bulkhead which is position D. Would i also need a ground for this?

Fuel pump - Looks like theres a wire coming from the fuse box labeled fuel pump according to the instructions. I will check tomorrow. If that is the case then all i have to do is extend that wire to the fuel pump.

Fan power - Looks like the same place the fuel pump line is theres another wire that says cooling fan and is also fused/ relayed. If thats the case running one wire to the front of the car won't be that bad. Maybe ill run that wire into the american autowire fuse panel so i can route it under the fender on the drivers side. What else would be needed to make the fans run?

Now what about coolant temp? Doesn't make sense that the harness is connected to the coolant temp sensor in the side of the block yet theres no where in the bulkhead connector to run a wire to for the gauges.

I think you have to add a second temp sender for your gauge. At least I have done that.

Don

[130fe]

There is a bulkhead connector that has outputs for VSS, oil pressure and such. It is located near the fuse panel on the harness. Have you found that one?

[rickpaw]

Here's what I'd do, in response to your questions.

I think i might have figured it out.

Oil pressure - Run a wire from the oil pressure gauge to the tan/white strip wire in the bulkhead connector which is position H. Run the ground from the gauge to the M bulkhead connector. I could actually just run one wire from the M bulkhead connector and use that for all of my grounds for my gauges correct?-Yes, or any ground points in the pass compartment


tach - Run a wire from the gauge to the white wire on the bulkhead which is position C. would i need a ground for this?-If your gauge calls for a ground, then yes.

Speedometer - Run a wire from the gauge to the brown wire on the bulkhead which is position D. Would i also need a ground for this? Same as tach.

Fuel pump - Looks like theres a wire coming from the fuse box labeled fuel pump according to the instructions. I will check tomorrow. If that is the case then all i have to do is extend that wire to the fuel pump.

Fan power - Looks like the same place the fuel pump line is theres another wire that says cooling fan and is also fused/ relayed. If thats the case running one wire to the front of the car won't be that bad. Maybe ill run that wire into the american autowire fuse panel so i can route it under the fender on the drivers side. What else would be needed to make the fans run?Ground to fan

Now what about coolant temp? Doesn't make sense that the harness is connected to the coolant temp sensor in the side of the block yet theres no where in the bulkhead connector to run a wire to for the gauges. Looks like you have to run a separate temp sender for the temp gauge. You can use the plug on pass side of head for this.

[randy]

Here's what I'd do, in response to your questions.

the passenger side head plug already has a coolant temp sensor in it that the ecu needs.

[dhutton]

the passenger side head plug already has a coolant temp sensor in it that the ecu needs.

Then you need to install one on the driver's side for your gauge. The sender for the ECM is not likely to be compatible with your gauge anyway. Two senders are generally needed. One should come with your gauge. Adaptors are available to allow you to install the gauge sender in the LS head.

Don

[randy]

Collected info>>>>>


- Hook the vss output wire ( brown ) from the bulkhead to the speedometer signal wire
- Hook the tach ( white ) from the bulkhead to the gauge tach signal wire
- Hook the Oil pressure ( Tan/white ) from the bulkhead to the gauges signal wire
- For the water temperature, there is a port located on the right side (passenger side) of the engine, in the cylinder head, past the last exhaust port (closest to the firewall / flywheel). There is a plug threaded in this location, that can be removed. This threaded in plug will either require an 8mm Allen Wrench, or a T52 Torx bit. There will be no noticeable difference in temperature reading when using the shorter sender. The 2277 adapter requires a 3/4" wrench, and the 2259 sender requires a 12mm wrench. Be careful to only tighten the adapter into the head until the crush washer is flattened. Do not over tighten. This is for the short sweep water temp guage
- for the voltmeter just hook up the ignition wire from the gauge harness to the gauge
- Samoco unit should be used for the reverse lockout solenoid. You could run it off of the brake pedal but some people have stated some issues. Link to the samoco unit is http://www.wirebarn.com/T56--TR6060-Reverse-Lockout-Control-Module_p_470.html
- The for fuel gauge run ......

[130fe]

If you add a pin to the PCM plug for the VSS it will work like it did from the factory. Buy a reverse lockout plug (off of EBAY), wire it IGN power on one side and add a pin from the PCM for the other. I bought a few pre crimped wires (with PCM ends already crimped on from Speartech. Works great. You have to have the VSS plugged in to the trans for it to work though. The PCM provides the ground signal. PCM connector #3 pin 8.

http://www.pcmofnc.com/install/E67%20Pin%20Install.pdf

[130fe]

Then you need to install one on the driver's side for your gauge. The sender for the ECM is not likely to be compatible with your gauge anyway. Two senders are generally needed. One should come with your gauge. Adaptors are available to allow you to install the gauge sender in the LS head.

Don

Yeah, I am used the VHX gauges on my swap. I used the Oil pressure wire coming from the bulkhead connector and had to use the CAN BUS setting to get the oil pressure signal for it to work correctly.

[Vega$69]

For the autometer tach to work you will to install a step up resistor and will set the dip switches to 4 cylinder 2 pulse.

[cjsgarage]

LS engines output a 4 cylinder pulse on the Tach, as mentioned above. So set your tach as if it were reading signal from a 4 cylinder.

the Tachometer gauge itself might have a ground, but do no ground the white wire.



always install the Engine Coolant Temperature sender in the driver head (The two wire one that goes to the computer). If you don't you're going to have to move all your timing and fueling tables up a few notches.. the passenger head port is in the back of the head (the driver's side is in the front--closest to the radiator side) and the few degrees different DOES make a difference.


The reverse lockout can be controlled by the PCM in most instances. I have not had good luck getting the brake wire to control it. It's been finicky, and the wire has come off a few times.. the brake pedal just moves around a lot, I guess.

[randy]

LS engines output a 4 cylinder pulse on the Tach, as mentioned above. So set your tach as if it were reading signal from a 4 cylinder.

the Tachometer gauge itself might have a ground, but do no ground the white wire.



always install the Engine Coolant Temperature sender in the driver head (The two wire one that goes to the computer). If you don't you're going to have to move all your timing and fueling tables up a few notches.. the passenger head port is in the back of the head (the driver's side is in the front--closest to the radiator side) and the few degrees different DOES make a difference.


The reverse lockout can be controlled by the PCM in most instances. I have not had good luck getting the brake wire to control it. It's been finicky, and the wire has come off a few times.. the brake pedal just moves around a lot, I guess.

Coolant temp gauge is simple. already have the wiring diagram for that and part number.

Reverse lockout i just bought the samoco unit.

[randy]

Updated notes

Hook the vss output wire ( brown ) from the ecm bulkhead to the speedometer signal wire
- Hook the tach ( white ) from the ecm bulkhead to the gauge tach signal wire
- Hook the Oil pressure ( Tan/white ) from the ecm bulkhead to the gauges signal wire
- For the water temperature, there is a port located on the right side (passenger side) of the engine, in the cylinder head, past the last exhaust port (closest to the firewall / flywheel). There is a plug threaded in this location, that can be removed. This threaded in plug will either require an 8mm Allen Wrench, or a T52 Torx bit. There will be no noticeable difference in temperature reading when using the shorter sender. The 2277 adapter requires a 3/4" wrench, and the 2259 sender requires a 12mm wrench. Be careful to only tighten the adapter into the head until the crush washer is flattened. Do not over tighten.
- for the voltmeter just hook up the ignition wire from the gauge harness to the gauge
- Samoco reverse lockout solenoid is order. http://www.wirebarn.com/T56--TR6060-Reverse-Lockout-Control-Module_p_470.html
- The dse wiper is going to run into the harness also. Thats why i removed the factory wiper wires. I already have the dse wiper motor.
-Maybe I'm just overthinking it? Does this sound right or I'm i screwing something up?

So far i removed the lt blue wiper wire ( wiper high speed ) dk blue wiper wire ( washer pump ), black ground wire ( wiper low speed ), white wire ( washer and high speed wiper ), purple wire ( vss signal ), Yellow ( vss ground ), orange wire ( Heater blower ), dk blue ( oil pressure ), White wire ( tach ), wires from the engine bulkhead connector

That leaves me with 5 wires :

- starter Red wire - Goes to the Battery lead on the starter solenoid. Runs from the bulkhead connector to brown connector. Seems like i can just ignore the brown wire and connect it directly the red wire. Run the same color red wire from the back of the alternator to the starter which goes on the same stud as the red bulkhead connector wire. This same spot that i run this wire the battery also connects on here. Battery gives the system 12v but once the car starts the alternator then feeds all of this

- ecm Red wire - Didn't use this wire in the engine harness but still in the bulkhead since the power source and ecm are inside the car. This is the battery feed wire. I can prob run it off of the studs on the gmpp pole or to the firewall bulkhead connector. Is this the feed wire for the ecm power or a 12v input from the ecu output to feed the cars 12v constant source? sounds like its the feed wire for the ecm but if I'm connecting the gmpp fuse box directly to the battery bulkhead this wire shouldn't be needed right?

- Starter pink wire - This wire would get routed to the ballast resistor which the other end of the ballast resistor would connect to a distributor ( which i don't have ) and then the R side of the starter solenoid. Would i just run this wire to the starter solenoid? Is this then my ignition output for my entire car?

- ecm Pink wire - didn't use this wire in the engine harness but still in the bulkhead since the ecm and power feed are inside the car. Is this the ignition feed in for the ecu or ignition feed out from the ecu for the cars ignition system?

- Purple wire - ran to the S part on the starter solenoid. This is prob the output from the ignition to complete the starter circuit to engage the starter solenoid to start the car.

Extra info.
My battery bulkhead is on the passenger floor board
To supply my ecm with battery power I'm going to run my power wire from my bulkhead connector to the ecm which is beside each other.

[randy]

For the autometer tach to work you will to install a step up resistor and will set the dip switches to 4 cylinder 2 pulse.

http://www.autometer.com/media/2650-1563.pdf

Listed are the most common ways to hook up a tachometer signal wire to the most popular applications that tend to have an existing tachometer signal:
• 98 F Body: Pin #35 of the blue PCM connector.
• 99-02 F Body: Pin #10 of the red PCM connector.
• LS equipped truck applications: Pin #10 of the red or green PCM connector (it will be either red or green, it will not have both). Not all trucks will have a tach signal wire.
• 97-98 Corvette: Pin #35 of the blue PCM connector, white wire. • 99-04 Corvette: Pin #10 of the red PCM connector, white wire.
• 05-06 Corvette: Pin #48 of the blue PCM connector, white wire. • 07-09 Corvette: Pin #48 of the black PCM connector, white wire. • 04 GTO: Pin #10 of the green PCM connector, brown wire.
• 05-06 GTO: Pin #48 of the blue PCM connector, brown wire.
• 05 Cadillac CTS 5.7L: Pin #10 of the green PCM connector, white wire.
• 06-07 Cadillac CTS 6.0L: Pin #25 of the blue PCM connector, white wire.
All of the above will require the tachometer to be set for 4 cylinder, 2 pulse signal. If the tachometer fails to operate, there are several ways to handle this. Each
case may be a little different.
If the tachometer does not function:
You may check the original tachometer circuit. You can do this with a digital voltmeter.
• Connect the positive lead of the voltmeter to the tachometer signal from the PCM.
• Connect the negative lead of the voltmeter to a good chassis ground.
• With your meter set on DC volts, start the engine.
• Monitorwhatyouhaveatidle.Youshouldhavealowfigureth atrangesanywhere from 0.5 to 3.0 volts (and remains rather steady).
• At a high-raised idle, it should be significantly more. As an example, if
you measured 1.0v at idle then at a raised engine speed you may see 3v, or more.
• There is no “spec” for the amount of volts you will see. What you are looking for is an increase. For example: If you saw 1.0v and idle, then measured 1.1v with raised engine speed, then that signal is not changing, or operating normally.
• If there is little to no activity, you may use a resistor to try and restore the weak signal. Installing the resistor: Use a 10K, 1/2 watt resistor (supplied in the LS Installation Kit). Solder one leg of the resistor to the tachometer signal circuit. Solder the other leg of the resistor to a 5v reference circuit.You may use a wiring diagram that pertains to your engine computer to determine what pin #, and wire color will be a 5v reference. *Hint: GM most commonly tends to use a solid gray wire for 5v reference, however you will still want to verify this with your wiring diagram, and a voltmeter set to DC volts. Do NOT use a 12 volt power supply or source for this. This may cause damage to the PCM.
10 7
Tachometer
If the PCM supplied tachometer circuit functions, but the tachometer does not: Take normal steps in diagnosing the tachometer. You may also try the tachometer on another vehicle. If it works on another vehicle, but not on your LS engine, then check the date code of the tachometer. Some older units (manufactured prior to 2007) may require a 5v calibration. All newer Auto Meter tachometers should not require this modification. Autogage tachometers may or may not function and CAN NOT be modified for 5v calibration.
If the PCM supplied tachometer circuit does not function, and you have already tried the pull-up resistor:: This will then require using a tachometer adapter. This is not uncommon when the computer (PCM/ECM) has been re-programmed or flashed. Some LS applications may have no wire for tachometer signal, or the computer may simply produce no tachometer signal. In this case a 9117 tach adapter will be required. The following details the steps required to install the 9117 on an LS engine.
Most commonly with original, and aftermarket engine wiring harnesses, the ignition coil power supply wire color is pink. Any applications using the adapter will be calibrated to 8 cylinder, 4 pulse.
Cut the pink power supply wire at each bank, prior to the coils splitting. This pink wire can be cut just prior to the wiring connector at the center of each valve cover.
• The cut halves coming from the harness (not the halves going to the coils) will still have power when the key is on. Join the left and right bank power halves together. Splice these two power halves (now together) to the solid red of the 9117 adapter.
8
• Now, join the coil-side cut halves together (left and right bank).
• Splice these two coil halves (now together) to the red wire with a green stripe
of the 9117 adapter.
• Ground the black wire of the adapter to an engine ground.
• Thegraywireoftheadapterwillbeyournewtachometersign al.Youdonot
want to try to “cheat” and use just one bank of coils, as the signal will appear
very erratic.
If the tachometer now functions well, but quits when above “x”-amount of RPM such as 4,000, then a shunt resistor will be needed. This is a 0.1 ohm, 3 watt resistor. Connect one leg of the resistor to the red adapter wire, and the second leg of the resistor to the red/grn adapter wire. This will allow some of the current to bypass the adapter, and still allow the tachometer adapter to function.

[cjsgarage]

Randy.. that's a ton of info.. and it's correct.. but you should just be able to hook the white wire up and set your tach to 4 cylinder mode. If you can't set it to 4 cylinder mode, we can work out a way to make it work.


The remaining 5 wires need to be hooked up as follows:

2 reds to battery constant voltage.

2 pinks wires are FROM ignition switch KEY ON power TO the ends of the pink wires

Purple is indeed the start wire. It goes from the small lug on the starter to the START function of the ignition switch. FROM ignition switch START to the end of the purple wire..

[alongfortheride]

Sounds like your working the bugs out.

[randy]

The remaining 5 wires need to be hooked up as follows:

2 reds to battery constant voltage.

2 pinks wires are FROM ignition switch KEY ON power TO the ends of the pink wires

Purple is indeed the start wire. It goes from the small lug on the starter to the START function of the ignition switch. FROM ignition switch START to the end of the purple wire..



NOW This is where I'm at. I will update the front light harness in alittle. Headlights, turn signals, and horn wires are all good
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/icemanrld19/Mobile%20Uploads/20151115_005921-1.jpg (http://s30.photobucket.com/user/icemanrld19/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151115_005921-1.jpg.html)

[randy]

NOW This is where I'm at. I will update the front light harness in alittle. Headlights, turn signals, and horn wires are all good
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/icemanrld19/Mobile%20Uploads/20151115_005921-1.jpg (http://s30.photobucket.com/user/icemanrld19/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151115_005921-1.jpg.html)


Anyone?

1. Red Wires states battery for ecm - Should be a constant so since I'm running the gmpp kit which ill connect directly to the lug coming from the battery this isn't needed correct?

2. Pink wire for ecm - Instead of running this to the outside bulkhead connector should i just unplug it from the female version of the bulkhead connector and run this line inside the car to the gmpp kit? What is everyone else doing for the ignition source of the gmpp kit?

3. Pink wire for bat location on the coil - What should i do with this? remove it from the engine harness of the AAW kit? Possible use this in the future for a accessory ignition source?

4. reverse light wires from the AAW kit - I think its a ignition ( pink ) and LT Green wire. Just run these wires to the right side of the t56 switch? How did you route this wire? Just make a hole in the tunnel?

[Vega$69]

Anyone?

1. Red Wires states battery for ecm - Should be a constant so since I'm running the gmpp kit which ill connect directly to the lug coming from the battery this isn't needed correct? Correct

2. Pink wire for ecm - Instead of running this to the outside bulkhead connector should i just unplug it from the female version of the bulkhead connector and run this line inside the car to the gmpp kit? What is everyone else doing for the ignition source of the gmpp kit? Any switched 12V works. I would pick it up inside the car if that's where your ECU is

3. Pink wire for bat location on the coil - What should i do with this? remove it from the engine harness of the AAW kit? Possible use this in the future for a accessory ignition source? Yes and Yes

4. reverse light wires from the AAW kit - I think its a ignition ( pink ) and LT Green wire. Just run these wires to the right side of the t56 switch? How did you route this wire? Just make a hole in the tunnel?That works

Here you go

[randy]

thank you. Things are chugging along.

Headlights, front turns, rear tails all work

How do i know which the vss ground and vss signal wire is coming from the GMPP kit? They just state vss high and vss low. I need to know this to hook up my samco reverse lock out wiring.

4 wires come from the samco unit and 2 wires to the reverse lights so ill most likely just run a 4 wire connector to the to the transmission and route it thru the gas pedal mount hole which i still need a cover for.

updated bulkhead connector. BTW putting the DSE wiper motor in the bulkhead was very easy.

Install the wires in the dse motor bulkhead. Route them to the AAW bulkhead. Cut all the wires. Put the correct ends on the dse bulkhead wire ends and plug into the engine bulkhead connector. Route the same color wires in the inside of the fuse box except the yellow wire. Remove the white wire from the fuse box from the fuse side and the engine side and replace that with the yellow wire. Now take the dse fuse out and install it in the wiper fuse location of the AAW kit. Pretty simple
Current bulkhead layout.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/icemanrld19/fuse%20box.jpeg (http://s30.photobucket.com/user/icemanrld19/media/fuse%20box.jpeg.html)

diagram for my transmission harness
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/icemanrld19/transmission%20connections.jpeg (http://s30.photobucket.com/user/icemanrld19/media/transmission%20connections.jpeg.html)

[randy]

The line coming from the GMPP harness is it a ground or 12v feed?
#1 where does the feed from the GMPP harness go to so it ties into the passenger fan? Im guessing #86 since i think its a ground
#2 Sorta the same question as above. Is the gmpp line a ground or 12v feed? If a ground Then i would need to supply the fan with a 12v feed. If its a 12v feed then run that wire directly to the positive on the fan and ground the fan.
#3 Do i need a relay between the GMPP kit signal wire to the drivers side fan since the line is already fused and relayed according to the instructions?

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/icemanrld19/Scan%201.jpeg (http://s30.photobucket.com/user/icemanrld19/media/Scan%201.jpeg.html)

[cjsgarage]

GM typically uses power to cycle the compressor clutch and the clutch has a black ground wire that grounds it to the engine block. On LS stuff the comtrol wire is power and it's dark green usually.

But i wouldn't use any of their wiring for your vintage air set up.

use the wire coming from your controls to kick the compressor. Vintage air is a blue wire with a bullet connector. The trinary switch interrupts the blue wire.

[randy]

yes but i want my gmpp controller to turn on both fans when the temp gets to the correct level but have the vintage air unit only turn on the secondary fan.

Short version

gmpp controls driver and passenger fan

Vintage air controls passanger fan only

How do i combine the gmpp signal as another signal activation in the vintage air wiring?

[Vince@Meanstreets]

yes but i want my gmpp controller to turn on both fans when the temp gets to the correct level but have the vintage air unit only turn on the secondary fan.

Short version

gmpp controls driver and passenger fan

Vintage air controls passanger fan only

How do i combine the gmpp signal as another signal activation in the vintage air wiring?

The PCM uses a grounding circuit....which goes to the relay not directly to the fan.

edit, according to your diagram it would be pin 86

[workng247]

yes but i want my gmpp controller to turn on both fans when the temp gets to the correct level but have the vintage air unit only turn on the secondary fan.

Short version

gmpp controls driver and passenger fan

Vintage air controls passanger fan only

How do i combine the gmpp signal as another signal activation in the vintage air wiring?

just use switched ground from va trinary to gmpp fan relay to trigger fans

or:

check out pcmofnc.com, they have a 2 speed dual fan kit for the gmpp controller and an a/c fan bump circuit. Requires adding relays and pins to the gmpp load center and a patch for the pcm. The a/c circuit requires trigger 12v so can work with va binary. They provide everything (including instructions and diagrams) to get it done. Good stuff.

http://pcmofnc.com/index.php/lshotrod

btw: you can add a pin to one of the gmpp pcm connectors to activate rlo to work like factory

Oh, the big grey wire is the power feed for fans, you need this wire

[randy]

thats exactly that i was thinking since pin 86 is where you would also install a manual override switch. Instead of having a toggle switch as a manual I'm really just replacing it with a ecu switch . Thank you and this makes it very easy.

Do i just split the ecu wire and one going to the fan and the other to pin 86 of the other fan or do i need to split it and run the split into two relays?

[randy]

anyone else seen this?


http://www.gm-efi.com/news/pcm-ncs-gmpp-harness-electric-fan-kit/

[Vince@Meanstreets]

thats exactly that i was thinking since pin 86 is where you would also install a manual override switch. Instead of having a toggle switch as a manual I'm really just replacing it with a ecu switch . Thank you and this makes it very easy.

Do i just split the ecu wire and one going to the fan and the other to pin 86 of the other fan or do i need to split it and run the split into two relays?

you have two wires right? do you have two fans? if so you run one relay per fan.

[randy]

1 wire, 2 fans


From the GM rep. I wasnt aware that the fans also turn off and on based on speed

There is just the one circuit to the fan , you can parallel this circuit to two fans as long as it does not draw more than 30 amps
This word doc is description and operation of the fan circuit

LS controller, cooling fan control

Fans turn on and off by 2 things, temperature and vehicle speed.

Vehicle speed less than 15 kph.
-If coolant temp goes above 95-97C, FAN ON.
-If coolant temp goes below 95-97C, FAN STAYS ON.

Vehicle speed above 15kph
-If coolant temp goes above 95-97C, FAN ON.
-If coolant temp goes below 95-97C, FAN OFF.

Vehicle speed drops below 5 kph
-If coolant temp goes above 95-97C, FAN ON.
-If coolant temp goes below 95-97C, FAN STAYS ON.

If the fan goes off once above 15 kph, and the temp stays below the trigger temp, the fans will be off below 5 kph and not turn on until the temp reaches the trigger.

Cycling the ignition will turn off the fan if the temp is below the trigger. Vehicle speed is needed to turn OFF the fan once it is turned on.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I would run two relays and split the wire to trigger both replays @ 86, tee the Vintage air into one 86 so the 1 fan comes on when the trinary trips to cool the condenser.

[randy]

I would run two relays and split the wire to trigger both replays @ 86, tee the Vintage air into one 86 so the 1 fan comes on when the trinary trips to cool the condenser.

My thoughts also.

What wired are routed from inside of the car to the outside in the ac kit? Trying to make sure I have all my wires in my harness before I route it.

So far I have the signal wire from the ecu, 12v constant, 12v ignition.

After looking at it plenty of times i know i can wire both of my fans to come on by the GMPP kit when at Temperature and run a AC override to run both fans when the AC is on. Only issue is i can not figure out a diagram to only allow the AC to override one fan instead of both of them. GMPP kit turns fans on and off not only by temperature but also by speed

Its either

1. Dual fans controlled by GMPP and AC
2. Drivers side Fan with gmpp and Passenger side fan with AC

I want Dual Fans by GMPP and Passenger side only AC override

[randy]

I would run two relays and split the wire to trigger both replays @ 86, tee the Vintage air into one 86 so the 1 fan comes on when the trinary trips to cool the condenser.

If the GMPP kit trigger wire goes to 86 and is split and i hook the trinary trigger one to one of the 86 relays wouldn't it actually supply both of the 86 relays? Its almost like i need a relay to that accepts two triggers

[randy]

which one is correct? I need the AC override to be a 12v signal which my GMPP signal is.

Feed coming from the 30 post on the Vintage air relay?

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/icemanrld19/Scan%202.jpeg (http://s30.photobucket.com/user/icemanrld19/media/Scan%202.jpeg.html)

Or feed coming from the 87 post on the vintage air relay?http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/icemanrld19/Scan_3.jpeg (http://s30.photobucket.com/user/icemanrld19/media/Scan_3.jpeg.html)

[mikels]

Although speaking more about PWM fan control (see http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=40215 ), the logic used by E38, E67, E40 is capable of running dual discrete fan output drivers as well as measuring AC pressure to determine fan operation.

If you run parallel / series fan relays with discrete outputs, you can run both fans @ 50% or both @ 100% based on ECT, oil temp, IAT, AC pressure. That way you are not faced with screaming fans when not needed. Integrating AC pressure into ECM allows trinary switch to control AC compressor, but AC pressure to determine fan requirements.

There are many times with AC operation 0-50% fan is required, so why wire any fan(s) to run full blast when not needed?

Dave

[randy]

Although speaking more about PWM fan control (see http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=40215 ), the logic used by E38, E67, E40 is capable of running dual discrete fan output drivers as well as measuring AC pressure to determine fan operation.

If you run parallel / series fan relays with discrete outputs, you can run both fans @ 50% or both @ 100% based on ECT, oil temp, IAT, AC pressure. That way you are not faced with screaming fans when not needed. Integrating AC pressure into ECM allows trinary switch to control AC compressor, but AC pressure to determine fan requirements.

There are many times with AC operation 0-50% fan is required, so why wire any fan(s) to run full blast when not needed?

Dave

i hear you there. Rather not have the fans at full blast. Thing is before i start worrying about the fans speed i want to atleast make them work the way they need to work. The GMPP kit controls the fans also based on speed, the trinity switch controls the fans based on pressure.

[mikels]

i hear you there. Rather not have the fans at full blast. Thing is before i start worrying about the fans speed i want to atleast make them work the way they need to work. The GMPP kit controls the fans also based on speed, the trinity switch controls the fans based on pressure.

Yes - I hate listening to fans running more than necessary!

There are no cal's based on veh speed for fan in GMPP software. And to incorporate AC pressure, you have to use an AC pressure sensor (same part used on many GM vehicles) wired to the ECM.

Trinary switch from Vintage air will still be used to control AC compressor.

Dave

[randy]

Yes - I hate listening to fans running more than necessary!

There are no cal's based on veh speed for fan in GMPP software. And to incorporate AC pressure, you have to use an AC pressure sensor (same part used on many GM vehicles) wired to the ECM.

Trinary switch from Vintage air will still be used to control AC compressor.

Dave

yes there is. the GMPP unit will turn off and on based on vehicle speed

From the GM rep. I wasnt aware that the fans also turn off and on based on speed

There is just the one circuit to the fan , you can parallel this circuit to two fans as long as it does not draw more than 30 amps
This word doc is description and operation of the fan circuit

LS controller, cooling fan control

Fans turn on and off by 2 things, temperature and vehicle speed.

Vehicle speed less than 15 kph.
-If coolant temp goes above 95-97C, FAN ON.
-If coolant temp goes below 95-97C, FAN STAYS ON.

Vehicle speed above 15kph
-If coolant temp goes above 95-97C, FAN ON.
-If coolant temp goes below 95-97C, FAN OFF.

Vehicle speed drops below 5 kph
-If coolant temp goes above 95-97C, FAN ON.
-If coolant temp goes below 95-97C, FAN STAYS ON.

If the fan goes off once above 15 kph, and the temp stays below the trigger temp, the fans will be off below 5 kph and not turn on until the temp reaches the trigger.

Cycling the ignition will turn off the fan if the temp is below the trigger. Vehicle speed is needed to turn OFF the fan once it is turned on.

[mikels]

GM E67 controllers (same as used in GMPP GENIV crate engine kits) have 3 fan output drivers - only 2 of which I am aware of ever being used. They can be set up for discrete, PWM or electronic clutch (ala Trailblazer SS). However, whatever driver you select is for all outputs (cannot have FAN1 be PWM with FAN2 be discrete). You must also select in calibration how many fan output drivers you are using.

GMPP kit wires together FAN1 and FAN2 outputs (making it only have one output). You can separate these to drive separate relays and thus create parallel/series control for dual fans - or just have each fan either on or off.

There is no vehicle speed calibration in the fan ring. Strictly temperature based (ECT, IAT, oil temp, trans oil temp, AC pressure). All these inputs have calibration table of temp to % output. Whichever temp signal has the highest output % request wins - and that determines the fan output. If you are using two discrete outputs, one will engage @ 50%, the other @ 100%. PWM or electric clutch control are infinately controllable from 0%-100% (but none are cal's to 100% due to PWM modules not liking 100% on signal).

Hope this clears things up.

[randy]

So how do i separate them since i only have 1 signal coming out of my fuse box and one relay built into the fuse box? Maybe what you are saying is what PCM of NC ends up doing?

[mikels]

So how do i separate them since i only have 1 signal coming out of my fuse box and one relay built into the fuse box? Maybe what you are saying is what PCM of NC ends up doing?

There are two signal wires running to the fan relay - one blue and one green. Separate and run each to separate relay for individual fan on/off control.

Or you can run to three relays to have fans work in tandem - as voltage divider for 1/2 speed in series and at full speed in parallel. Sorry away from computer so can't pull up diagrams - but 322V (2009-2014 CTSV) is wired this way.

There is space in panel for additional relays and fuses - just need the terminals to populate vacant locations.

Then the calibration needs to be set up for dual descrete fan drivers.

The parallel / series set up is slightly more difficult, but superior in that both fans run at either 50% or 100% - vs 2 fans either off or on.

Dave

[randy]

Why wouldn't GM do that from the beginning to have dual fan controls? Instead of moving the blue or green wire to another relay wouldn't it be the same thing is if i took the blue fan wire from the box and split it to two other relays? Only downfall i see here is if the main relay feeding both relays fails neither fan will turn on. The way you are saying seems safer but is it worth it?

Are the two signal wires going to the relay one being a 1/2 speed wire and the other full speed?

What you are talking about is that what PCM of NC is packaging here?

http://www.pcmofnc.com/index.php/performance-parts/product/2615-gmpp-harness-electric-fan-kit
There are two signal wires running to the fan relay - one blue and one green. Separate and run each to separate relay for individual fan on/off control.

Or you can run to three relays to have fans work in tandem - as voltage divider for 1/2 speed in series and at full speed in parallel. Sorry away from computer so can't pull up diagrams - but 322V (2009-2014 CTSV) is wired this way.

There is space in panel for additional relays and fuses - just need the terminals to populate vacant locations.

Then the calibration needs to be set up for dual descrete fan drivers.

The parallel / series set up is slightly more difficult, but superior in that both fans run at either 50% or 100% - vs 2 fans either off or on.

Dave

[mikels]

Why wouldn't GM do that from the beginning to have dual fan controls? Instead of moving the blue or green wire to another relay wouldn't it be the same thing is if i took the blue fan wire from the box and split it to two other relays? Only downfall i see here is if the main relay feeding both relays fails neither fan will turn on. The way you are saying seems safer but is it worth it?

Are the two signal wires going to the relay one being a 1/2 speed wire and the other full speed?

What you are talking about is that what PCM of NC is packaging here?

http://www.pcmofnc.com/index.php/performance-parts/product/2615-gmpp-harness-electric-fan-kit


I can't answer why GMPP set up that way. Simpler / cheaper likely answer.

Fan outputs are same from ECM. One is FAN1 the other FAN2. Reason you have to use 3 relays to make low/high setup is to make fans a voltage divider (series) or receive equal voltage (parallel). The outputs are same - just a trigger signal for relay (IF set in cal as discrete outputs).

Yes - link you sent is doing what I'm talking about - but you can do yourself for much less than that price. Of course you pay for convenience and can use this prefabed kit to do same without having to research / procure parts yourself.

As far as reliability - current GMPP setup relies 100% on one relay. Splitting runs 2 relays (each independent). Parallel/series runs 3 relays - but is method used by production dual fan GM systems since 1990's. I recommend not 'cheaping out' with electrical parts regardless of method selected.


Dave

[randy]

Decided to buy the electric fan kit for the gmpp from pcm of nc. I also purchased http://www.pcmofnc.com/index.php/performance-parts/product/2625-hotrod-pump-circuit-ac Decided to buy the two kits instead of making it myself.

[randy]

http://www.grcperformance.com/Instructions/Reverse%20Lockout.pdf

The two wires going to the reverse lockout are simple enough but my question is how to hook up the other two to the VSS. Which one is my vss signal and which is my vss reference? Notice page 8 on the above pdf.

[cjsgarage]

What color are the two wires that hook up from your GMPP harness? Usually it's one light green wire and one purple with a black stripe.

[randy]

Ill have to look tomorrow again. We hooked one up today and it works great. Really all you need to do is hook up the yellow wire to one of the t56 vss wires. The blue wire is hardly ever used. If it doesn't work you can also just swap the yellow wire to the other wire and not cause any issues.

[Efi69Cam]

Is it OK to run Spal fans in a series/parallel arrangement? I'd prefer the three relay two speed configuration over two relays.

[randy]

Is it OK to run Spal fans in a series/parallel arrangement? I'd prefer the three relay two speed configuration over two relays.


Thats what pcm of NC sales. They send a patch to patch into your edu and all the easy connectors to set it up in the fuse box. The AC override acts as a fan bump.
This kit makes use of two temperature outputs in the computer and integrates it with an air conditioning controlled fan speed increase. Turning on the A/C will bump the fan speeds to the next higher speed.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/icemanrld19/Scan%204.jpeg (http://s30.photobucket.com/user/icemanrld19/media/Scan%204.jpeg.html)

[Efi69Cam]

Thats what pcm of NC sales. They send a patch to patch into your edu and all the easy connectors to set it up in the fuse box. The AC override acts as a fan bump.
This kit makes use of two temperature outputs in the computer and integrates it with an air conditioning controlled fan speed increase. Turning on the A/C will bump the fan speeds to the next higher speed.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/icemanrld19/Scan%204.jpeg (http://s30.photobucket.com/user/icemanrld19/media/Scan%204.jpeg.html)

Thanks!

[randy]

Just got my ac bump wiring kit and dual fan wiring kit for the GMPP unit. Seems very very simple. For $140 combined for both kits all of my relays will be in the fuse box. Just route 4 wires to the fans from the fuse box and 1 wire from the AC compressor to the AC bump kit so a total of 5 wires going back and forth. The rest is tapping which anyone can do. Should all take about 90 min.

[randy]

What color are the two wires that hook up from your GMPP harness? Usually it's one light green wire and one purple with a black stripe.

green with a black stripe

Purple with a white stripe.

according to my controller instructions the green with black is gss lo pos 1 and the purple with white is vss top hi pos 2. The t56 lockout is asking for a vss signal and a vss reference. Does the GMPP controller have 2 signals wires and no reference wire?

According the the samco unit instructions it states " you do not been both the vss reference wire from the vehicle harness and the blue wire from the samco box both connector to the vss sensor. The blue VSS reference wire from the samco unit is to take place of the reference wire when its not present in the vehicle. If you already have the factory 2 wire in your vehicle harness cut and tape the samco blue wire and dont use it"

That above is confusing. What im seeing a reference wire is not present in the vehicle unless its present somewhere else since both vss sensor wires seem to be signal wires. I think im overthinking this and all i have to do is not use the samco blue wire and run my yellow samco unit wire to either of the 2 wires going to the vss sensor since it doesnt matter

Both wires tested with the ignition off, i had the same ohm readings on both wires compared to ground

[randy]

bit the bullet. Ran the yellow wire from the samco unit to the purple wire on the gmpp controller that runs to the vss. Reverse lockout works great. speeds above 5mph the shifter is like a rock if you try to put it in reverse to the far right. Blue wire wasn't used.