That's because your deep into the pipe... you don't get the talk.

I've already OD'ed and been reincarnated.:unibrow:

Interesting thread, and so chillingly accurate.

Let me say up front:
1. My car building skills are crap. they are OK but not show quality
2. I run my own business and have a young daughter and a wife who could care less about cars (sees them as a waste of time and money)

But from the age of 10 I have wanted a killer Camaro, as the years went buy and cars I could afford came and went, I said I was going to build a top shelf car, and do it soon.

Worked my butt off and got the money.

I had a budget, and I am the first to openly admit that budget was $180K (aussie). I planned to outsource the entire build due to skills and time. I expected it to be 3 years.

Well, I am just over 3 years into the build. It will probably take another 6 months to complete

It's also looking like I'll end up around $250K Aussie.

I can tell ya freight costs for me for all the goodies from Prodigy, the car itself, Bill Mitchell, DSE and Summit to name just a few is in the thousands.

Good news is my car is almost exactly the plan, very little if anything changed, just under estimated the cost to do it.

This car is a life long dream that will soon be complete.

And it will be driven !!

Bottom line, budgets are essential in this game, even for those spending a lot of money on these cars. It's not hard to spend 6 figures on these cars, but even he best budgets can be easily blown.....

Great thread, gives insite into a lot of members views.

In response to the OPs question

I think it's better to have a running car you can take out and enjoy (even if it isn't even a 40-70 thousand dollar car) than it is to have a pile of parts and a skeleton of a $150,000.00 car.


My observations

Since the PT G-machine hobby segment of the car hobby is fairly young, many of the cars being sold as "projects" now were started when the PT style started to "catch on". As others have said life happens and plans change for whatever reason, as there are more PT style builds being done now there are more unfinished projects being sold.

The (relatively) few cars that are being used competitively are admired by folks who see posts with pics/videos of the cars being driven and that sparks their interest and desire to build a cool car. Whats not to like about the concept of a wicked fast car that can go around corners and stop? The concept of a street driven car that can hit a dragstrip, Auto X, Land Speed Race, or road course is appealing.

Many think by starting with an inexpensive car needing work it will save them money. Then as many of you are aware of what can happen next they start to slide down the slippery slope. It's slow at first as they start working on the car and find rust in places they weren't aware there was rust, and then they realize the rust they knew about is a bit more extensive than they thought. "So it'll need quarters instead of patch panels." The owner thinks "well might as well mini tub it then! That will be cool!" not realizing that they are sliding down the slippery slope they're psyched at the excuse to mini tub.

Then they order the mini tubs, quarters etc and begin. While working on the body the decision to do a "frame off" is made "because it will be easier". Then work slows as the scope of the project increases. More time is spent on research than working on the car as a plan is formulated. Research begins on rears, subframes, suspension, brakes. While all this research is occuring the focus slowly turns from performance goals to aesthetic goals. At the same time the cost of the project escalates but the owner doesn't realize how much more it's really going to cost. They just add up the major component costs without including everything that will be needed.

A basic plan is made and parts start being ordered. (even though they're not needed yet) Some work is being done but more research is conducted while waiting for the basic needed parts. Then as parts arrive and more work is done more questions pop up and the scope increases again. Plans are revised and additional expenses are added. But it's "OK, because even though it'll take a little longer I'll have my dream car"

Over the next couple years unexpected life maintenance expenses come along that take money away from the car budget. Less work is done on the car because there's no point in doing work because there's not enough money to finish it "right". Some work is performed occasionally over the next couple years. Then something comes along that puts the nail in the coffin and stops the project dead. It might be child expenses, new job, moving, divorce, sidetracked by another car, or whatever. At that point the decision is made to put the project car up for sale, but, "I don't need to".

And yes, I'm guilty of sliding down the slippery slope. I have a 66 Mustang I started over 20 years ago. I've moved it from place to place and probably should have sold it long ago but "I don't NEED to" LOL And in my case all of the reasons listed above should have applied !!! AHAHA It's cost me more to move it, store it, and retrieve it when it was stolen than it's worth!

Why don't I finish it now? Too busy on the Firebird and Malibu. Why don't I sell it now? Who knows? I guess because "I don't NEED to". LOL

To be honest I don't think that things have chnaged that much, it's just that more people are now becoming aware of more unfinished PT cars coming up for sale, as the PT scene grows. The more people that get involved, then the more people are likely to drop out. It's all about percentages really. I've been restoring top end cars for close on 30 years & have found that car builders fall into 3 main categories. The rich ones that money is no object, no parts are too expensive & they are constantly pushing the envelope to be "top dog" in the show arena or on track.

The second type is the one that have the skills to do most of the work themselves & just need a shop like ours to finish things off for them. They budget accordingly & have a clear goal as to what they want within their budget. They go as far as they can by carrying out their own build & then take it to a shop to be finished, which normally includes painting & general build up, leaving the final finish & detailiing to the customer.

The third type of builder though are the ones that haven't fully prepared a plan of attack for the restoration. Unfortunately, these guys have a vision that far exceeds their personal car building skills & a bank balance that doesn't match their dreams. They see all of the "must have" parts being fitted to cars on forums & magazines & tend to follow the trend by buying them.When their lack of car building skills hits home, it comes to a point where they haven't the budget to finish the car by professionals as they've spent their money on unnescessary parts.

My own '69 Camaro is a case in point, the guy I bought it from stripped it to a bare shell, ripping out everything down to the last nut & bolt. He then proceeded to buy parts for it, but rather than just buy the essentials like body panels at that point, so that the rebuild could start, he went out & bought all of the "must have" parts, that he didn't need. By the time he'd finished buying all of the parts, he couldn't afford to have the bodywork done by a professional, as he'd spent all of his money on stuff that he didn't need at that point. Had he just got the essentials to get the car to paint stage, in the time it would take to get it into paint, he would have been able to save the money to buy the "must have" bits. 'Cos the car was just sitting there, with a small fortune of parts sitting in his garage, unable to progress any further, he became disillusioned with it & put it up for sale. This is probably why so many cars are left unfinished, due to poor planning & an unrealistic opinion of how much the car is gonna cost to rebuild

Cheers......Nige

Wow, I cannot believe that I just took the time to
 

read all 10 pages of this post. It must hit home for a lot of folks.

My car is the perfect example of "scope creep" It started as a motor swap to a big block. Took way longer than I planned...6 years. Spent 3 times the money I planned.

What I ended up with was a once in a lifetime car for myself. Most of the cars that I had built before were heavy on performance with average looks. If it did not make it go fast I did not want it. I love my car, but would never build another one like it. I built it too nice for what I wanted to do with the car. If I built another it would be a primer car with all the go fast goodies. It has been finished for 2.5 years now and I find the new has worn off of all that shiney paint. Rock chips don't bother me and I am ready to hit the track....as Frank at Prodigy said, "its just paint."

I have thought about selling it a few times because of what I stated above. I got over that and now realize that at this stage in my life I do not have time to build another car, if I did build another one it would still be a 69 Camaro and you all know I am not getting any younger.

Stay tuned for dead cat and a half coming soon.

I can already hear my phone ringing!

Make sure you have that talk with Payton first.:rofl:

Those who live in glass houses should
 

not throw stones,Todd. LOL

It may have been stated already 'cause I didn't read everybodys rant..another issue is everybody wants the latest "widget"

This happened 15 years ago with the street class drag race cars. We all had 12-13 second cars and a "heavy hitter" was solid into the elevens. The track hero was a 10:20 car. Then all the hype hit and everyone had to build a 10 second car...buying parts they couldn't afford. Most cars sat for years because they wouldn't be caught dead running iron heads, etc.


flash forward 15 years...
and you ain't cool if.....
stock subframe, leafsprings, etc etc....ahhh but then there is Mary Pozi kicking everybody's but with ...stock leaf springs and a stock subframe.

There are people, like Greg mentioned who are having a blast just driving thier cars.

With this economy I see people doing stuff like Jason Rushforth...upgrade slowly and keep it on the road, paint and trick parts are for later times.

I would love to see this becoming a bigger movement, but who wants to pay $4.95 for a Mag full of cars with rough fitting sheetmetal and less than perfect interiors etc