Hey! You may set a new course record............for friendly fire kills. :guns:

=======================
It's funny you should mention that. It is also a good school from what I have heard, and yes with their training your grip is probably correct as well.

"Front Sight" is also the name of the magazine for the USPSA.

I carry a .45 Kimber for a carry weapon. For home security I have a home defense 12 ga. Loaded with high brass buck shot and alternating slugs. Point and shoot, it will knock the perpetrator down.

Magpul puts on a great weekend class too... tacticool M1A FTW


great day with the buds

Although I have a handgun, in my opinion the best GUN for.home defense is a pump shotgun. The sound of a shell being jacked into the chamber makes a strong possibility that you won't have to pull the trigger. It is a terrifying sound to all but the most determined assailants.

First hand experience? http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums...lies/cool2.gif



:D

I'd agree with a pump shotgun, but if you must have a handgun go with a Taurus Judge loaded with .410 home defense loads

I use a 12 GA Pump. I keep one in the chamber with the safety on.
I don't want a perpetrator to know where I am unless he is able to here the safety comes off. I know the places around the house that I know what would make a good defendable position and a place where the perpetrator would have to come through a narrow passage.

With my wife behind me, I feel I heve a good preset plan to make a strong defensive location.

My wife has a 10 shot .22 Pistol that she can shoot very accurately and very naturally. If she ever had to use it, 10 .22's in the chest would be very uncomfortable to say the least.

Ty

I have found that women are naturally good shots (the ones that are no scared to shoot).

Jody,
Did you get the pistol grip with your mossberg? Also, gen 3 or 4 on the Glock?

David

Interesting "CQB" video…

Never would have thought of that one. I was taught to shoot holding my firearm in close to my body in that type of situation. This really makes you start thinking what if scenarios in your head. I like it.

Greg did Front Sight teach any defensive tactics like this during your course?

No -- the course I took -- "4 day defensive hand gun", was about drawing from a concealed carry -- and putting two to the torso -- within 1.5 seconds… and clearing type 1.2.3 malfunctions in various times -- like a type 3 within 6.5 seconds… while moving… such as:


dead trigger. step. look. check for fresh mag. strip mag. rack rack rack. insert fresh mag. rack.

No fumbles. no flubs. Your life may depend on this sequence!

They have all kinds of classes depending on what you want to learn of course.

Awesome. Laurie and I have memberships, but have never used them. I am way over due for a refresher and Laurie really could use that exact type of training.

That's all fine and dandy but if im a bad guy you would already be dead by my secondary weapon which I had in my right hand before I attacked you in the first place. The attacker will always have the upper hand because only they will know how and when the attack is coming. No matter how much you train its almost impossible to over come this advantage. Smart technique other wise.

Never enter an unknown area with your weapon extended and always go wide when slicing "the pie". This advise will not only help you in a combat situation but at the Thanksgiving table next week.

Another note, it's nice to see the Gracie's involved with Police training. It's a great base system to work from.

I know this is about home protection. Know your home layout and protect your entry ways so you can limit the sections a theif or burglar can enter. Now days most dangers come from home invasions. Don't open your door and be smart when coming home since its getting dark earlier.


by the way i am not anti gun, anti concealed carry or anti castle doctrine. I am anti- stupid people doing stupid things that create stupid legislation to further restrict smart, legal gun owners like my self just minding my own business.

Curtis -- the training is VERY intensive… long grinding days… and I was exhausted by the end of each day. Well worth ANYONE'S time to take this type of training!

We did do room clearing - and as Vince referred to it - "slicing the pie" - and the kill tunnels such as doorways to other rooms etc. How to enter - how to search - how to think - how to defend…


None of it makes you an expert - what it does do is shows you how little you know - but is a great base to build on if you're in to this sort of knowledge and skill.

Lunches and after class time (after 5pm) there were excellent discussions on morals - ethics - legal - planning - etc which are all great topics you need to think about BEFORE ever having to use such lethal force.

VINCE ---

What you say is very true - you can not always defend from a surprise attack. That really wasn't what the discussion was about. Nobody is 100% safe. Nobody should walk around paranoid either. That would depend on where you live - where you are - time of day - and on and on…. They worked on us with this thinking (zones actually) about being in what zone depending on what/time/surroundings etc. About not going to the "white zone" (being totally unaware of what's going on around you)… but that is also totally unrealistic for most people that are happy just living their lives. I, for one, am not walking around in yellow zone all day every day.



This stuff is like track days -- the average guy is not driving a car on track very often… it can be MONTHS between events for the average guy. Taking classes and learning - doesn't make a guy A J Foyt…. The average guy is not being trained or dry firing - or practicing malfunction drills… or room clearing. If you (not you - but any YOU) are - and you're not a cop or in the defense business - I'd say you're a bit whacked… and my guess is that the average guy will forget everything he's taught if presented with an actual situation. I still believe it's my DUTY of ownership - to get some basic training and do some basic practice and skill building and try to keep relatively proficient.

Great point Greg.

Its like what I tell my friends and familly that carry, either open unloaded or concealed. You never know whats going to happen but don't let fear make you change your life. Once you do that I feel the bad guys have won without even being there.

But this doesn't mean you can live in denile thinking it can never happen to you. Just be smart and don't dismiss things going on around in your area.

Getting to know you neighbors and what is going on in your area can be helpfull to deter crime and help law enforcement. My neighbors let me know when they are going out of town or noticed odd things going on.
We had a rash of car break in's last year and with the help of a neighbor a block away we actually helped catch 2 teens in the act. Cops rolled up right when they had their heads in the glove box and trunk. They had coins, house keys, (never leave a copy of your house keys in your car along with your registration) credit cards and one guy had a large hunting knife which was concealed.

Just the little things you may not think about can make your life and home a little safer.

Instead of thinking defence, put the same amount of effort into deterrence.

haa haa oh yeah. I have a few Tackleberries in my life. Its quite entertaining at times.

My cop buddy (Merle Carner - retired - now head of CrimeStoppers here locally) always tells me --- "I love the people with a gun in the nightstand but the bullets are safely in the basement!"


I fall into that category… all my stuff - ammo and all -- is safely locked away in a burglar and fireproof safe in the shop…

I know I'm lame -- but I'm more afraid of someone stealing it… than I am of being a victim.

On the other hand, when I'm on the road in the rig --- you wouldn't want to try to come in unannounced or uninvited.

I was referring to target shooting

Females do have a faster reaction time than males.

Not sure that's really ever been established -- or that it's just a "wives tale".



Reaction time and reflexes are largely dependent on the male or female in question. Tests done to gauge this have turned up mixed results due to the difficulty of establishing consistent testing methods. Age, training, and natural aptitude all play a part in this and makes it very hard to say for sure. However, the tests that have been performed state that men are a bit quicker to react than women.

Are you talking about jumping to conclusions or shooting? :sieg:

took someone long enough to get it. LOL

im terrible at telling jokes. I always forget to leave the punch line.


the guys at mythbusters did a test and Kari had shorter reaction but longer action times. Episode 189 – Hollywood Gunslingers

Front Sight training
 

I took the 4 day Defensive handgun class at Front Sight the week after SEMA… I have to tell you that 4 days of that is INTENSE… but worth the effort. They not only have you shooting far better and far faster than you ever did -- they discuss important topics such as Morals - Ethics - Legal liability, etc.

You start really early the first day since everyone has to have a thorough gun and ammo check… and that first day is L O N G… and they start promptly at 8AM on the range.

Couple of things --- This place is not only out in Pahrump -- it's also out in the pucker weeds about 13 miles from Pahrump. AND there's a lot of people taking their various courses. I was shocked at how many people were there! But they have shotgun courses - rifle - sniper - tactical courses - defensive courses… so when you add it all up = there's a lot of folks out there every day.

My course was training for you to be able to draw from a concealed holster - meaning your jacket etc is completely covering your weapon - and zipped up etc - and you have to draw and put two in the torso area in a hand sized pattern in LESS than 1.5 seconds. If you think you can do this - go ahead and try. Just make sure you don't put a racing stripe down your leg.

SAFETY was really strict… and I liked that! You're in an open range with about 20 other people you don't know - and you don't know their skill level. They had this down to a science.

We went thru about 600 rounds… (you bring your own ammo)… which doesn't seem like much - but you have to be ACCURATE with that ammo… and you're drawing and firing from various distances. So it's PLENTY of shooting as far as I'm concerned. This isn't target practice -- this is drawing - moving - scanning for "other targets" (perps)… there's a whole bunch going on.

Anyway -- I'd highly recommend this school for those so inclined. It's very professional - well run - great instruction… lots of DUST and SUN… and lots of on your feet for long hours… but the net result was extremely useful.

personally, i prefer a carbine for home D and the pistol for out and about (when in VA and other places that allow it). my FNP40 goes bang every time and fits my hands well but it is meant for the type of CQB that would be encountered in a home, just need a suppressor now..its a lil loud shooting inside...

comes down to.. just use what is most comfortable to you and practice, practice, practice, practice. run different routes through your home until you can do it blindfolded and in the dark. dry fire, a lot. hell, use airsoft as a training aid. train as you fight, fight as you train. your life may depend on it.

I vote for 45acp and not that plastic gun crap...

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-H...Hn8sN97-XL.jpg

Glocks & Air Soft
 

I had a Gen 3 Glock 22 with night sights and a 3.5lb trigger etc. that I had for most of the time I was on active duty... got scared when my two little boys (now 6 & 10) started playing Air Soft "Call of Duty" with the neighbor kids.

Those things look a LOT like my G22 with the exception of the red/orange tip. Long story short, I got rid of it for the same reasons GW discussed earlier... I had the weapon in one spot with a trigger lock, the clips in another and the ammo locked up in a safe elsewhere... "hold on Mr. Intruder, I know you just kicked in my front door but I need a few minutes!" LOL

Didn't make a lot of sense, so I got a Mossberg 500 18" Tactical for my wife (aka Black Betty) and a 590 20" for me... but regretted selling the .40 ever since.

So for Christmas this year, my wife surprised me with a new Gen4 G22! Glock has "blue label" pricing for retired military and police than can't be beat! And Glock got it right with the new Gen4 as it comes with most of the mods everyone was doing to old Gen3s... beavertail backstrap, dual springs for less recoil, etc. I'll just add the Trigicon night sights and the 3.5# or "dot" connector again.

Now our HD is set imo with the G22 in a nightstand drawer safe, loaded up with 3 clips of Critical Defense hollow points and two Mossberg's with Critical Defense 00 @ 1600fps. When my wife hears a noise in the middle of the night, I grab the Glock and she grabs "Black Betty"!

My FIL is a custom home builder btw... in case dry wall repairs are needed after we call 911.

What's the fascination with Glocks except that they are cheap? I bought one once, put 500 rounds through it and was all over the place. My current Springfield pictured about the first 5 shots at 7 yards could have been covered by a quarter...

Glocks work fine. Different strokes for different folks. Glocks are here to stay like it or not and they somewhat started the polymer revolution which we've all benefited from. Many defenders bet their life on them and have proved they are an effective combat weapon......no need to trash them.

Zero shoots a Glock and I wouldn't want to go up against him with a shotgun in CQC........even at distance.

There's nothing wrong with them, I've seen guys who are incredibly accurate with them. Mine always go bang, and is more than accurate enough for me.

Wow, impressive!! A couple months ago I couldn't hit a skunk from about 15 yards with my 19!!! LoL! :bang:

Glocks are the VW bugs of guns. Run great when they are good but leave you with a pain when they don't.




I witnessed a few failures, most where with reloads.

I love my XD and loved my 1911.

Key words right there. Improper case prep, inaccurate powder measures, poor die setup and press maintenance, and infrequent quality control checks on rounds equal KaBoom. I was very careful loading my 22-250 considering the pressures they can develope.

3 years ago a 20+ year varmint hunting buddy and serious firearms collector had a squib round in his Ruger 77/17......he was distracted by a cell phone call and had another person next to him shooting a centerfire when the squib happened and ended up chambering another round......it blew the side off the stock and disintegrated the Ruger rotary mag........a tiny little .17 HMR. Certain rounds develop serious pressure. My even smaller .17 Mach 2 has higher pressures than the .17 HMR. This round was due to a bad batch of Hornady ammo. It was reported to Hornady with the batch number off the box and case and Hornady actually sent him a new rifle.

Sometimes safety is beyond your control but it's a very small percentage.

but some were not.....I have 1700 rounds through my XD with reloads, cheap and what ever was laying around with zero issues.

Im not a glock hater just buyer be informed. Quality should top all reasons for purchase.

Over 12K of my handloads through my 1911......no surprises in three years of shooting league. Never had a Glock, shot a few and the grip angle doesn't work for me. 1911's, Sig's, and a Kahr are my go to's.

Fact is any gun can blow up due to a bad round.....or two.

I've had my HK USP 40 for close to 20 years and thousands of rounds and it still runs like a machine.

7-8 years ago I picked up a Glock 27 compact in .40 as a carry piece and at first grumbled about how sloppy it felt next to my HK but as I have now run thousands of rounds through it as well it has never failed. Maybe 1 jam in all that time running PMC rounds when ammo was ridiculously expensive. I try to stick with better quality ammo.

I bought my wife a Kahr PM-9 a few years back...their single stack "hand fitted sub compact 9mm with match grade barrel" and it would barely shoot without jamming. Sent it back to the factory twice for them to just "polish the feed ramp." It would fail to feed and fail to eject on about every 2-3 magazines you would run through it. They give you the whole... "You need to run 250 rounds before it is broken in" but I ran 500 rounds of 3 different types of ammo and still had issues. The internal machine work was sloppy and there was something visually goofy about the alignment between the magazine and the feed ramp... the first guy I spoke to at the factory admitted they had some feed issues but nobody after that seemed to know anything about it. Recoil spring was so stiff my wife could barely cycle the slide. When it shot the groupings were nice and recoil was low. Ended up selling that one at a loss 6 months in.

We replaced the Kahr with a Springfield XDS9 single stack 9mm for her and it has been great. Quality wise it feels better than my Glock but not quite like the HK. It shoots great, easy for her to operate and puts down great groupings. It is definitely for small hands though.. where she can barely hold my Glock and HK because they are too big... I can barely hold the XDS9 because it is so small.



Anyway you guys do realize that this conversation will answer the mystery of the universe as just as much as asking.... "What is the best brand of car to buy?" or "What is Pro-Touring?" Or "What was that stuff growing on the cheesecake in my refrigerator and why did I eat it anyway?"

To the original question-the best handgun for home protection is the one you can get your hand on when needed.

Nothing wrong with Glock, I have a G26 Gen4. Have not had any issues with it, other than the occasional brass to the face. I have S&W M&P's, and an HK VP9, so far the HK is the best.

It's like asking "what's the best camera". Steve Rupp will tell you it's "The one you have with you!".

So true, and so simple. The best HD weapon is the one you have that you can use.


I have more weapons and ammo than I care to admit. They're all locked up 11 miles away. I choose to live where I don't lock my doors nor remove the keys from our unlocked vehicles.

I think maybe the best defense is a good dog. Our Lab barks at anything and anyone that comes within 20 feet of the house.