Please don't play the fire hero card.

Fire and EMT equipment and compensation are one of the better examples of excesses government spending. Yet they are portrayed to be movie stars and hero's by the media. Why isn't their equipment similar to military? The buy and equip their vehicles like the 1 percenter's buying recreational vehicles............why?

The number in our area that have second jobs as contractors and work for cash under the table makes me sick.

Two years ago Eugene had 203 fire department employees, the average wage was $96,000. Police had 193 and averaged $92,000.

Then they respond in these vehicles to attended to longtime drunk who's passed out again.........on a regular basis.
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-W...-Wvkr6q3-M.jpg
Cost effective?

IMO occupants will most likely die of smoke inhalation before the responders arrive if they can't clear themselves from the structure. In many cases provided you have decent insurance you're better off having your house burn to the ground vs. dealing with smoke and fire damage and having your house filled with the fire departments water. You'll be back under your own roof in less time with a total rebuild vs. repair.

Have you paid for an ambulance ride lately? You can go to a nice driving school for a similar price............unless you're homeless then it's free.

From a motorcyclist's perspective the condition of roads in the Pacific NW are dangerous.

End of rant..............

Do we really want to start the blame game ? The Bush blame game.

Because if so, here is your history lesson.. The CRA was started by Jimmy Carter. Then Bill Clinton put it on Steroids...You know to be "fair".

Then although Bush was President, Barney Frank and Company ran with the CRA and pushed the banks to engage in Loans they never wanted to do..

Subprime lending was forced on the Banks by Barney Frank, Chuck Schumner and company to make it "fair" that everyone gets a home loan.

In 2003 , and 2005, Bush and the Right and the Federal Reserve said we are at risk...Barney Frank said we were not at risk..

In 2006, McCain called for tougher regulations...The democrats blocked the effort...Obama voted..

Bush tried several times to stop this ,but he was labeled a racist by the left and by the press.. No one in the media and on the left did their job to save the nation from collapse.

Sure Banks made a lot of money, and Goldman Sachs took the country for a ride.. I did too...I was not going to sit back while it was happening..

Sure there were MBS's that were DDD that got packaged as AAA and sold world wide. But you know what ? Stop trying to be fair and lend to unqualified buyers...It is the mantra on the left to equal the playing field by any means neccessary, even when it makes no financial sense.

And the cry babies about the two wars, blah,blah,blah...Please stop...It was a sub prime mortgage meltdown...And if the left would have left the regulation and the banks alone to stay with old school standards, none of 2008 would have happened.

So I put the meltdown, and the printing and spending that was needed to save the Nation squarely at the feet of the Liberals, because I know what happened.

You see it was easy to see coming...I sold a luxury home in 2006 and went into cash...Waiting. Then in February 2009 I closed on a 55% off peak Home at the bottom for one third my selling price of the other home. Then I rolled the rest into Investments...The opportunity of a lifetime...

And I thought it was only once in a life time. But if we continue on this path, I will get a second shot at putting my portfolio on steroids, because I refuse to let the opportunity pass....

So those that blame Bush for the collapse, are just being.....misinformed, or following the kool aid trail..Because He said something, and the media and the left shut him down...Without 2008 where would we be ? Trillions less in debt, People still in homes. Jobless rate lower, and a stronger economy..Oh and still in two wars..

And I am for Clinton era tax rates.....AFTER true spending cuts are made...The education system is broken...Throwing more money at it will not fix it...You want infastructure done ? Bring the troops home and put them to work on the highways and bridges..The unions would go crazy but what are you going to do with 300,000 troops ? Keep sending them to different nations for a pay check..

Tell the EPA to shove it and trim it's power and fat...Stop trying to force higher fuel prices to mandate green energy...Don't tell me that the President does not set fuel prices...He said on camera and his Energy Czar said on camera that they welcome higher gasoline prices to "force" green energy, even if it means european prices...So he puts policies in place that raise the price to justify going green.

The media is not doing it's job...They worship Obama and the left...They will never tell the truth or expose the lies and corruption...But Bush ? They will run front page articles....There is a price to pay for such hypocracy and silence...

Your are exactly right on th mortgage meltdown. bush had nothing to do with it. And last i checked there was something called 9/11 that happened. It would be scary to see how obummer would have reacted. We did what we had to do.

Again, tax rates are not radically higher than they were in the 60s.

http://visualizingeconomics.com/blog...y-income-group

Note how for virtually everyone except for the top 1%, tax rates are basically where they were in the 1960s. That's probably a large reason why most of the gains made in terms of wealth over the last decade, have pretty much been for that set of people. That of course doesn't include state/local taxes which have almost certainly tended to increase.

I don't know that I'd be so dramatic as to compare it to the fall of Rome, but I agree that we should be cutting spending in all areas. It logically makes sense that entitlement spending would increase during a serious recession, but again, we could certainly find efficiencies and ways to make the dollars go farther.

My thinking is that any change should be phased in over time. While I think going over the fiscal cliff would not be as bad as people think, it would be clearly superior to cut 2% a year over 5 years (and increase taxes 0.5% a year over 5), than to cut 10%, and raise taxes 5% at the exact same time.

Yup...

If you taxed the 1% at 100%, it still wouldn't put a dent in our debt. that isn't the problem. its the spending. the 1% put alot of the 99% to work. Alot of poeple. they shouldn't be unfairly singled out when they already pay 80% of the taxes anyway. if their taxes go up a little, i wouldn't be the end of the world, but spending needs to be reigned in to match. In the real world you spend what you have and live withing your means, or you go broke.

*** Willing to concede -- but in order to get something in return: Relatedly, the Washington Post reports that Republican centrists and even some conservatives are calling on Boehner “to concede on rates now, while he still has some leverage to demand something in return. Republicans are eager to win changes to fast-growing safety-net programs, such as raising the eligibility age for Medicare and applying a less-generous measure of inflation to Social Security benefits.” More: “‘I and some others are advocating giving the president what he wants,’ said Rep. Steven C. LaTourette (R-Ohio). But he stressed that this must be part of a package that slows federal borrowing and reduces the debt by $4 trillion to $5 trillion. ‘Quite frankly, some people in this 2 percent who call me, they’re more worried about the fiscal cliff than about the rates going up a couple points. That has bigger risk for them,’ said LaTourette, a close Boehner ally who is retiring in January.”




The real Dem vs Repub argument is We will pay more taxes but we want spending reduced.

I think that is a FAIR AND BALANCED APPROACH.... It's a RESPONSIBLE approach.


Let's not argue about who started what and who's to blame.... Let's just get busy and SOLVE the problems.

Like my old desk sign used to ask.... "Are you part of the problem or part of the solution".

AND........ WE need more like this!!



http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-ceo-cook-says

Dont get me wrong. I don't want taxes for you 2% to go up either. it affects my paycheck! Like you said they are probly going to go up, but like you said a balanced approach would be nice.

Amen!

And IMO more emphasis on tech degrees vs. college degrees to support those manufacturing efforts.

I'm fine with taxes going up... it won't affect the way I live one iota. But I'm squarely in the camp of cutting spending. America has become totally irresponsible. It's embarrassing to me personally that we have to borrow. That's not the way I run my household. That is NOT the role of government. It's not proper leadership. And it makes the country "beholding" to other countries such as China.

When you borrow from someone and must do so in the future as well - it makes it pretty hard to get in their face about other "stuff"...


Basically I'm sick of America being on WELFARE in order to provide welfare.

Agreed. The firefighters in my township have gotten a 5% across the board raise 2 times in the last 4 years. They are responsible for 40% of our townships $5 million annual budget. They have a hook and ladder truck when there is not a structure in the township over 3 stories tall that gets driven to every call! This isn't a bash on the firefighters. I wouldn't do the job, my point is this is going on in a township that has 42 miles of roads and is 23 square miles. Imagine this on the state level and then on the federal level. Just spend and spend and spend.

Darren

"And I am for Clinton era tax rates.....AFTER true spending cuts are made...The education system is broken...Throwing more money at it will not fix it...You want infastructure done ? Bring the troops home and put them to work on the highways and bridges..The unions would go crazy but what are you going to do with 300,000 troops ? Keep sending them to different nations for a pay check.""

Very true point here. The infrastructure (highways and bridges) are super old, dating back to the 50's.

I think that you beleive that just because you said it, or read on some website that it is true. There is NO way you can dilute yourself into beleiving that what we pay in tax today is the same as it was in the 60's.

Don't listen to what they are telling you,think about it in your own life. Out of your own check (if you are employed), comes, fed, state, local, medicare, you pay 7% to unemployment, your employer matches that. You drive home, pay $.40+ a gallon in fuel tax, here in Md. 6% tax on anything you buy, tolls, propery taxes are outrageous, pay outrageous fees to register your car etc, etc. All that little crap adds up, putting your effective tax rate(if you are a producer) at over 50% of your income. Once again, your wife has to work, her income used just to pay the taxes. Wasn't even close to that in the 60's.

I look at the Democrats and Republicans as both standing waist high in a pool of gasoline, the Dem's have 8 matches in ther hands, the Rep's have 3 matches, either way we are toast. The Dem's just have 5 more ways to get us there.

The stuff going on is all negotiating, people get overly concerned because one side or another puts out a heavily slanted offer. Both sides know that it will be a balanced thing. Democrats know cuts will occur, Republicans know revenue and really the tax rates will go up.

So of course Obama says we want 1.6 billion in revenue, and the republicans say no tax rate increases and 800 billion, but then we cut x,y, z.

They will meet somewhere in the middle, things will get cut, and taxes will go up. No matter what they do, it won't be enough sure, but both sides are already talking about major tax reforms next year that would probably bring rates down for many people (not necessarily meaning you pay less).

Also, 57hemicuda, I explictly said that I understand state/local taxes have probably not gone down, they really do tend to go up and never go down.

It isn't like I'm pro-tax, or pro-spend, I just try to view things from all angles.

The country will be fine, America is not going down the tubes, and there's no need to build a bunker and chances are we'll be in a better place 4 years from now than we are now. That has zero to do with who is our president, the government, the rich paying more or less, etc, it's because contrary to what some might believe, Americans just tend to not accept those things and work hard to get out of holes.

Wow! An American that is willing to bail out America.
You sir have a screw loose.
:unibrow:





:thumbsup:

Hey! You forgot the OTHER PART OF THE STATEMENT.... the part that says -- as long as these aholes quit spending!!


:thumbsup: :D

yea I agree passing tax breaks for 98% of america. I was like geter dun then I herd they went back and said we need to extend unemployement:willy:

I'm kinda torn on the unemployment extensions... I know two people on unemployment right now - 99 weeks worth - neither one are looking for a job - they're "resting and vesting". It's like WTF -- that's almost a two year vacation!

I'm equally certain that there are people that are really really hurting and need this extension. So once again - we come back to the government doing a really piss poor job of running these handouts.

You have the time and money to be influential. Get to work.....

X2!!!

Romney has time and money -- look what that got him?!?!


:lol: :thumbsup:

1. For people getting unemployment: Take all of the job postings (be it private and government) and require say 25 or 50 a week to be applied for by the unemployed. This would be required in order for your benefit check to be issued.

2. For people getting disability: I watch people every day that are in a wheelchair, go to work. There is a local business in my area that employ the blind. We once had them help counting at inventory....they were more accurate than the employees that had their eyesight!!!! So let's take the disabled, yes even the "obese" ones and give them a position. If you can cart your lazy butt to Walmart, you can cart your butt to work. There are people that are truly disabled. That is not who I am addressing. I am however addressing the deadbeat mooches, that hunt, fish, play sports, etc and claim disability. You know who you are!

3. For taxes: FLAT TAX!!! Very simple it's a magic word called proportional. EVERYONEpays the same percent. Read the good book. It says 10% of what you make goes to the Lord. Not 12% for some and 4% for others. Taxes should be the same way.

4. For Government Spending: make the government a business and ran like a business. We all know if we ran our business like the government, we would have went broke within the first year!

The chances of all of this happening.....did you ever hear that snowball survival story??

Summary:
Deadbeats get off your can and pull your weight. Until then you are nothing more than a mooch.

Government officials, start treating it like your own business, or risk loosing your pay and LIFELONG benefits!

Unemployed, start being a part of the solution instead of all of the problem. You too are a mooch, unless you are making every attempt to get work.

Life is not always a cake walk. Start manning up and be Americans instead a bunch of mooches!!!!

My 2 cents

I think Sieg mentioned the amount of fire equipment that was responding to a known town drunk....

I have mentioned that when you "MUST" budget - that things change because people start to actually dig into what they can do with and what they can do without....

Today I find an article that incorporates what Sieg pointed out - and what is, to me a way to look and see what you can do with a budget. When you read the headline - you're appalled -- then when you read the facts - it's not so bad - because "most" of the fire calls at this station ARE NOT fire related.... Makes sense to me...:thumbsup:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/50126062/n.../#.UMNgZKWhwwE

Impala Man... I would vote for you. :thumbsup:

You gotta love that when the Politicians don't get their way , the first things they cry about cutting is the Police,Fire and Education...

You will be robbed, your house will burn down, and OMG, the poor children...

Never a mention of cutting government waste...Only the "fear" services...

All governments - big or small - only seem to have ever learned how to ADD... they can never balance a budget... They never cut ANYTHING out unless forced to do so... If they have a SURPLUS... they immediately vote to spend said surplus on some program or other... and that program has future costs which are never addressed.

It's like building roads.... they have an ongoing cost to maintain etc. THAT part is never in the original projections etc.


According to the Survey of Income and Program Participation conducted by the U.S. Census, well over 100 million Americans are enrolled in at least one welfare program run by the federal government. Many are enrolled in more than one. That is about a third of the entire population of the country. Sadly, that figure does not even include Social Security or Medicare. Today the federal government runs almost 80 different “means-tested welfare programs”, and almost all of those programs have experienced substantial growth in recent years.

I agree Impala man, thats why I thought there was a small glimmer of hope if we elected a "business man" I would much rather have Romney balance my checkbook than Obama! Oh well...
From what I've seen in my 40+ years on this planet is that it has somehow become acceptable to many people to accept as many handouts as possible. No one seems to be embarrassed about it and actually brags about the various ways they get "free" money. Kids grow up in this environment, don't know any better and think its perfectly normal to live like that. (well, I guess in todays world it is.) and the cycle continues.....

Mostly agree
 

While I mostly agree here I see a potential problem with item # 1 & 4.

#1 IMO While I do agree that there are many folks that are slackers and moochers looking for a free hand out of any kind even though they are capable of contributing to society, "I got them 2nd and 3rd generation on the other side of my family" I have personally witnessed 1st hand the psychological toll it takes on someone who has worked hard all their life, moved up the corporate chain, became the household bread winner only to loose their job due to the corporation cutting back so those higher up can keep their bling bling. This particular individual I'm thinking of did acquire another similar type job (Medical field) a year and a half later only to have their 40hr a week job cut in hrs down to we will call you when we need you status. Yes this individual does receive unemployment and does apply to at least 5 job every day in a 60 mile radius of their residence. I have seen the list.
So based on these statistics, this individual has applied for approximately 1300 jobs in the last year alone. From what I understand their primary problem with not acquiring a good job or a frekin job of any kind in their field is that they are not Bi-lingual.
So from what I understand here is now you have to speak Spanish fluently and English is secondary. WTF is wrong with this picture.
When did it become mandatory to speak Spanish as a primary national language here in the US?


#4 If the Govt was ran like a Business or in its case a Corporation, the problem I see is the "Leaders" Pres, Congress, Senate, House, ext...would give themselves Enormously HUGE Bonus's at the end of each year and there would no longer be any form of elections. We the people would no longer have a say in our government.
In addition, if they can not balance their budget, lol! They will piss on us honest hard working back breaking tax paying little folk some more.

Just venting my thoughts a bit. :cheers:

One suggestion I had for the food stamp issue was government stores. They would be stores that transportation would be provided to if needed. These stores would carry food and "necessities" ONLY. This means no steaks, no brand name Mac n cheese, no brand name anything. No microwaveable popcorn, no beef jerky, no ready made meals. You want Mac n cheese, melt the cheese, and add it to the milk, butter and macaroni available at the government store.
I know these people don't want to feel embarrassed by going to these stores, well wake up. YOU'RE ON WELFARE PEOPLE. DO YOU NOT HAVE ANY PRIDE!! You have no problem recieving a check from hard working people, so the excuse about being embarrassed doesn't fly.

Also, if I ran for president and by some slim chance a good majority of the deadbeats didn't vote and I got elected, I'm sure at least one deadbeat would assassinate me and probably pay for the ammunition with my tax money!

And this is different than what we have how?!??!:question:

:woot: :woot: :thumbsup:

Exactly the same as when they are fully staffed. :thumbsup:

Throwing money at our local public safety services may improve their presence but it certainly doesn't improve the level of public safety. What's a sad fact in Eugene is the number of over-weight lesbian officers that can across the board out perform some of the men.

If anyone really thinks their jobs are so dangerous and justify the lucrative pensions............with the average physical condition how do they manage to survive? They might make it a week in the mountains of Afghanistan but only if they encountered minimal resistance.

Grrrrr

Exactly the point.
IMO even though I would HOPE it would.Problem is power corrupts.

Here's the latest compensation data posted in the local Eugene, OR paper:

The cost of a City of Eugene worker

Average cost per full-time equivalent employee (total wages and benefits, but excluding overtime)

American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees

08-09 fiscal year: $70,419

12-13 fiscal year: $80,540

Full-time equivalent employees: 609

Eugene Police Employees’ Association

08-09 fiscal year: $91,568

12-13 fiscal year: $106,572

Full-time equivalent employees: 241

International Association of Firefighters

08-09 fiscal year: $107,434

12-13 fiscal year: $117,230

Full-time equivalent employees: 172

Non-unionized employees/managers

08-09 fiscal year: $106,375

12-13 fiscal year: $115,489

Full-time equivalent employees: 418

-----------------------------------------

The overtime is most likely excluded because it would probably cause local rioting.

How many people do you know that will be receiving 10+% compensation increases from 08-09 to 12-13?

I know the police have a lot of flexibility when it comes to banking OT compensation so most of them jump on it, seniority applies.

Many of these public servants are working 32-40 hours a week, many working 4 - 10's so working 5-10 hours a week of OT is nothing.

We've all seen how hard cops work at football and basketball games.......that's double OT.

Here's the entire article which will give a little insight into the mindset of councilors and city manager.
http://www.registerguard.com/web/upd...-fire.html.csp

What baffles me is people in the community actually believe the same people that negligently created this problem are capable of resolving it.
:drool:

I might be out of touch -- but I just don't think 100K per year is "good money"... I personally think that would put someone right square into the "middle class" and most likely would also require the wife, if any, to work
as well.

I don't mind my public employees being middle class Americans. I have SEVERAL police officers as friends -- I also belong to the Seattle Police Athletic Association... and I can tell you that none of them are above middle class even with overtime. They don't have the hot rods and stuff that "we" do. And if they do - they're building them at home and it take a lot of months or years to complete.

What I'd like to see cut out - is the multiple pensions that many of them stack up! My buddy get's a pension for life for being a Major in the Army - then is stacking up a separate healthy pension from the city... He'll make more in pension than he does working. THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THAT in my opinion. He'll also be able to do all of this while retiring "early".

Regular folks don't work for one place for 20 years - quit - then go work another 20 for someone else and get the pensions these "government service" workers do and that's where it's messed up, and the costs are horrendous!

"The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
~Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher

Greg - I'd say a little out of touch due to living in major financial hubs in the country. $50-$75K is an above average salary in Eugene/Springfield, not many over $150K. Based on advertising demographics by zip code that I've contracted. $50-$75K is more like and average household income. :thumbsup:

Is that per month -- because I'd be struggling if it's not! :D

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :woot: :woot:

:cheers: