For what it's worth, a Vendor sells something that would make this slightly easier possibly.

http://www.restomodair.com/shopproducts/t-fitting/

I think that's the route I'll be going.

That looks like it. I am interested in the shell, seals, large terminal and the small PWM terminal for the mating side (socket side). See slightly better photo below.

http://i.imgur.com/B0XJ7Rql.jpg

Thanks,

Scott

I ordered 15 sets the last time I ordered the PWM module connectors to sell as pairs. But the place I ordered from said that was all the parts that make up the assembly that theirs doesnt require the white piece. Not sure how watertight it would be.

So does the female side have the gasket shown in the junkyard version you posted back around page 24 or so?

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/f...519_214032.jpg[/QUOTE]

If so I would be interested in the mating female connector pins and the seal (shown here in orange).

Scott

PWM controller
 

Some of the service information for the 2016 CTS-V, ATS-V and Camaro refer to a fan controller but the controller is integral to the fan itself so the ECM is sending the control signal directly to the fan. No separate/serviceable controller exists as the DC brushless (BLDC) controller is built into the fan.

The only seals I have are the ones for the wire to connector body. I have emailed the place I ordered them from to see if they have the gaskets.

So is the fan looking for a PWM- signal at the same 128Hz?

Andrew

Frequency
 

Most of the fan controllers accept a fairly wide frequency range sp I wouldn't be surprised if all of the GM applications being discussed would operate correctly at 100 to 128 hz. You do have to be careful as to what the expected duty cycle is. What is maximum speed on one variable speed fan (or pump) can be off or an error mode with another.

Some fans also have different polarity of the signal, causing the desired fan control logic to be swapped (maximum speed vs minimum speed).

Thanks for all the good information guys. I won't be wiring until later this year so let me know on the gasket if you hear back. It sounds (and looks) like you have everything else right there.

PWM Controller - I think it was clear earlier but just in case anyone is confused this fan has the controller integrated into the fan motor housing.

Scott

Scott,

Do you know the exact specifications as to what the controller is looking for?

Andrew

I haven't gotten that far yet. I figured when I get there I would try to get in touch with Spal, or bug someone smart like Mikels. I don't even have the ECU installed yet.

Scott

Scott,

Please post whatever information you can find. The CTSV fan seems like a good value give the output and the fact that the PWM controller is built into the assembly.

Do you happen to have rough dimensions? Also, if you have more picture of how the fan is mounted to the radiator, that would be appreciated.

Andrew

Andrew it is roughly 22x24 inches. I will post up some tape measure photos. C&R did the drawings and it picks up six holes already on the fan. I cut off some of the tabs that were not needed. I thought it was a good value as well. You do need to modify the core support which I was planning anyway to use this big fan.

Andrew the fan just mounts with six screw (three each top and bottom). The radiator is actually sort of designed around the fan. There is also a bracket in front to mount the Vintage Air condenser.

http://i.imgur.com/qisB6Yil.jpg

The overall fan and radiator height is around 22 inches.

http://i.imgur.com/D3tjwEzl.jpg

The width of the fan is around 24 inches and the radiator tank outside to outside is about 28.5 inches.

http://i.imgur.com/Ohertgzl.jpg

You know the guys at C&R are really helpful. If you asked for the drawing in .PDF I think they would share it with you.

http://i.imgur.com/tai9kAUl.png

Built in controller
 

Just to clarify, all of the DC brushless fans that I am familiar with have the BLDC controller built into the fan and then take a speed control signal as an input.

Other vehicles that have DC brushless variable speed fans are:

• 2014-2016 CK trucks including Silverado, Sierra (dual Bosch fans)
• 2015-2015 CK SUVs (Escalade, Tahoe, Yukon, Suburban) - also dual Bosch fans
• 2016 ATS-V
• 2016 CTS-V
• 2014-2016 C7 Corvette
• 2015-2016 C7 Z06 Corvette
• 2016 Camaro
• and many other newer vehicles.

They can usually be identified by the connector configuration and wiring. Should be three wires - two large gauge wires (power and ground) and then a third small gauge wire that is the speed control signal input to the fan.

Wondering if anybody has troubleshooting advice for the PWM signal coming from an E38 ECU? I'm not seeing any PWM signal coming out from X1 pin 58.

I took my multimeter and put black probe to DkGrn wire coming from X1 pin 58, and red probe to battery positive terminal, and set to DC volts. Turning key on I can see the voltage go up to about 1.2V but regardless of toggling fans and duty cycle in HP Tuners I don't see any change. I would expect to see either ~5V or ~12V across here but do not. I didn't even bother to switch my multimeter over to duty cycle measurement, but assumed without the higher voltage its not working.

Any ideas on further troubleshooting? Pin 58 is a ground PWM signal correct?

That part I know to be correct, but I can't help with anything else.

Andrew

Thanks. I looked at it again on the weekend and realized that I was monitoring it while it was hooked up to the C6 fan relay. Once I disconnected the fan module I see it taking 12V to ground when key is on, regardless of fan state in the ECU. Interestingly I also flashed the ECU back to discrete fans and am observing the same situation, so I'm going to give up for now and wait until I've switched over to the Holley Dominator setup.

Now that, I can help you with!

Andrew

For what it's worth, I'm using Dakota Digital's VHX + fan controller with my GM LSX and it works great.

Just as a followup, we did the switch to the Dominator setup and, as expected, its working great!

Excellent. The set-up on either the Dominator or the HP is pretty straightforward.

Andrew

Hi SP,

When I look up this part number on the various GM part sites, it shows up as an ATS-V fan, and the picture looks quite different than the fan you show. And for some reason none of the sites list parts for the 2016 CTS-V. If you get a chance to double-check that number, I'd appreciate it - looking to use the same fan on my latest upgrade.

Do you know if this is the fan Stielow used on JA? It looks pretty similar ...

Edit: The local dealer also lists this as the part number for CTS-V, so I went ahead and ordered one. I guess I should know those pictures won't always match up :) Sorry for any bother.

Scott

PWM fan output is frequency output - will not be able to 'measure' with voltmeter.

Cal also needs to be set to PWM output and frequency matched to PWM controller. All E40, E38, E67, E92 (and most all other GM ECM's from recent years) are capable of PWM fan control.

BTW - GM crate controller wiring joins fan1 and fan2 outputs to relay - need to separate to send fan1 only to PWM controller.

Dave

ATS-V and CTS-V fans are same - except for where wiring harness to fan is located (hence the different part numbers).

Yes - this is fan used by Mark on JA2.0.

Dave

Dave,

So the above mentioned fans have the controller built in, is that right?

Andrew

If anyone is trying to score a C6 fan controller at the junk yard, you can also look for 2006-2009 Ford Fusions. They use the same controller and it won't have a "Corvette Tax."

Andrew

Scott or Scot,

Anyone care to post the information on this connector? Manufacturer? Series? etc...?

Andrew

If it's the same connector that the SPAL brushless uses it's a Yazaki connector, I tried to source one without much success so I just bought the SPAL version which is assembled by Chief Enterprises

So I found some interesting information regarding the C6 fan controller and the Yazaki connectors. Someone on YB reported that the 2006-2009 Ford Fusion uses the same controller as the C6. So I went to the Pull-A-Part and their inventory showed two in stock. One had the whole front end missing, so that was a bust, but the other was mostly intact and had the radiator removed and was sitting on the engine, as if presenting itself. Low and behold, on the fan shroud was a very familiar finned aluminum box. I had to borrow a T25 Torx, but after a minute I had the controller off. The connector at the controller looked exactly like the Kostel connector that we've been sourcing from Mouser. On the power feed side was a mondo Yazaki male connector. Of course on the chassis wiring side was a matching female connector. I scored the whole thing, took it home, plugged it into my Cougar and it worked perfectly.

Today I went back and got the female Yazaki connector from the Fusion that had the front end missing. These connectors are super robust and by the accounts here, should fit the new CTSV/ATSV fans with the built in controller.

Now, if we can only find the part numbers for the large female terminals, then we will be all set!

Andrew

Here is the controller I pulled from the Ford Fusion...

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/cougar/730.jpg

It had marking on the sticker, but I accidentally wiped them off when I was cleaning it. It had the same wiring diagram as the C6 controller, with the only difference being this one is made in Mexico. Presumably to cut cost for the Ford Fusion.

Andrew

The information below is for a Holley HP or Dominator system, but I thought it would be handy to post it here.


So recently a buddy of mine presented me with a challenge. He has a street car that uses a Dominator ECU and he is using the C6 fan controller, just like I am. However, his car has A/C and he wanted to have the fan turn on at a predefined duty cycle whenever the A/C kicks on. I also know that some of you have the desire to be able to toggle the fan to full speed while at the track, and with the configuration that I previously posted, this is not possible. There may be other ways to do this, but this is what I came up with and it seems to work very well. I am testing it with a manual trigger through a virtual switch on my Holley 7" dash, but any switch will work, including a A/C compressor trigger.

First you need to create an Input and assign it to a pin (hopefully y'all know how to do that already). In my case I created a 20v sensor, but I see no reason why creating a 5v sensor wouldn't work either...

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/hefi/IO.jpg

Then you have to configure the sensor. I chose the Custom 20v from the dropdown menu and gave the sensor a minimum value of 0 and a max of 1. Essentially what I am doing is creating a binary switch. The reason for doing this is that simple 12+ or Ground triggers are not selectable in the PWM table, but custom sensors are!

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/hefi/sensor1.JPG

Here is the bottom of the screen...On the bottom scale, half the values are given a value of zero and the rest ramps up from 10-20v. Then I configure voltage values of zero to be zero and voltage values above 10v to have a value of 1.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/hefi/sensor2.JPG


Now we can move to the PWM output screen and configure it. The Y-axis remains CTS but instead of having MPH on the X-axis, as I used to have, now I select the new A/C sensor that I created. The resulting table looks like this:

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/hefi/PWM2.JPG


This essentially splits the PWM table into to different conditions and they function independently, based on whether the trigger we created is ON (value 1) or OFF (value 0)...This set-up should work just fine for anyone that wants to turn their fan on at the drag strip...but it creates a different situation if you want the fan on when the A/C is on. With this configuration, even at highway speeds, the fan will be running at 50% (or whatever we assign to the cell of value 1 on the X-axis), which isn't really needed or desirable. In order to fix this, I have created conditional sensor triggers that will activate the PWM table.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/hefi/triggers.JPG

I have set MPH as a trigger and set it to activate the table at speeds below 30 mph, and I also set the table to activate when temperatures are above 200 degrees. So in my friends case, with the A/C ON the fan will operate at 50% while at speeds below 30mph. Above that speed the fan is OFF, even when the A/C ON, however, if the CTS goes above 200 degrees, the table PWM table is activated again. Also keep in mind that the whole left side of the PWM table can have different values in all the cells. So you can have a minimum of 50%, but if CTS starts climbing, higher fan speeds can be commended.

With the A/C OFF, again, the right side of the PWM table is activated below 30 mph (this of course can be changed) or when the CTS goes above 200 degrees (this too can be changed).

This configuration should work for different set-ups and scenarios but the trigger values will have to be tuned to your particular combinations. This is due to variance in fans, hoods, thermostats, etc....

Any and all comments are welcome...

Andrew

Andrew,

Have you tried searching here ? https://apps.us.yazaki.com/Component...temPN=71164036

You may have to take some measurements and do a deep-dive into the drawings but they should be in there.

Delphi terminals and connectors are soooooooo much easier.

I appreciate this thread guys and all the information in it. Been setting up the programming in mine and having some success so far using the c6 module and the Holley system. Can't wait to play with it more.

May have similar logic setup to the last example with the AC switch.

Andrew, great information! I was a little stumped on how to get the A/C to trigger the PWM fans, so will try this now. Thanks!

Just from a newbie
 

On your controllers from a fusion most mazda cars will also have a similar controller.Hope this helps just my .02

PWM Electrical vs. PWM EV
 

Does anyone know what the difference between PWM electrical and PWM EV fan control signals in a GM ECU application? Is one +12V and the other a modulated ground? This latest CTS-V fan apparently is configured as PWM EV, and I'm trying to figure out how to emulate that with a Motec ECU ...

Thanks for any help.

Scott

Scott,

Have you tried using PWM- like we have done with the C6 fan controllers?

Andrew

Andrew,

Thanks for responding. I think I should have explained my question better.

The fan is definitely PWM controlled. The question is, what is the nature of the modulated signal? For instance, you can pulse a +12V signal, or pulse a ground connection (some aftermarket ECUs control analog gauges this way, for instance). And some kinds of PWM control "invert" the logic, e.g. wider pulses can mean slower speed instead of faster.

The GM ECUs have 3 kinds of PWM configuration: PWM Electrical, PWM EV, and PWM MRF, as they are called in HPTuners. I'm quite sure that PWM Electrical is a modulated +12V signal, but I don't know what the others do, specifically the PWM EV signal for controlling the CTSV fan. Don't want to damage an ECU or fan controller by guessing wrong.

BTW, PWM EV is apparently so named because it's the signal type used to control the "electro-viscous" fan clutches on some trucks. I'm guessing by what I can Google that this could be a modulated ground, but I'm hoping someone with more GM ECU hands-on can clarify.

Thanks much,

Scott

Doing a Connect and Cruise LSA. Is it confirmed that I can _not_ control the fans with PWM with a GMPP E67?