Congrats to all involved! The car sounds great and look great. Good luck with all the testing and tuning coming up.

I’m not sure I understand your question. Speedtech Performance wasn’t the “previous builder” — they were my original choice to build the car - as they were listed as one of three builders in the catalog.... but Sutton was offering so little $$ to do the work and they weren’t willing to do it for that — and frankly — more importantly they didn’t have the time at that time.....

I don’t think Sutton EVER wanted anyone other than HIS chosen builder (his buddy Randy at One Off Customs)..... and purposely lowballed the amount he was willing to pay a real shop — knowing they’d turn it down.

I’ve been friends with Speedtech (Blake - Jay and Roger) for a very long time... I know them - I trust them - they do great work - they’re racers - fabricators - car builders - and gearheads. I knew they could fix the pile of crap that Sutton had built - so BINGO - that’s where the car went.

Hope that answers the question?

On track
 

This was nothing more than 4 laps — thank you OPTIMA — to see if the car will run and turn - Jay Weir was short shifting and just generally breaking in the Hoosiers and seeing if brakes work etc. So super slow and careful — but still fun to see and hear the reborn POS.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

“Beauty from ashes”

Your post answered my question. I have several parts from speedtech and found them to be excellent. I had never heard of sutton. Glad to hear the car went to a qualified builder.

I know nothing about sequential gear box's. So does it blip the throttle when down shifting or does it just go in? From the sound in the video I can't tell.

There is programmable “auto blip” — in the Holley system — or you can add (as we did) the auto blip box (easier). In fact — after the test drive - we discussed the auto blip needs to be “more” — and that’s all just programming.

Mostly what you’re trying to accomplish is to “unload” the gearbox..... Same thing I do with my Jerico in the ‘65 - it’s just a momentary “lift” of the throttle... to unload it and she slides right in. It’s a super fast movement and doesn’t involve the clutch at all on upshifts.... but with a Jerico, I do heel and toe and use the clutch on downshifts. Some guys don’t but I found it upset the car (probably crappy driving on my part) so I use the clutch.

Looks and sounds fantastic!

Greg,
Can you give a bit more information on the "auto blip box" is that a separate add on device? Is that the one sold by Tractive Technology out of Phoenix?

Thanks for the video Greg and Blake.

It's using a Xineering box, http://www.xineering.com.

Another example of Sutton having no clue what he was doing and simply spending Greg's money, because he could.
It's an excellent system, but not necessary as the Holley Dominator can be programmed to do the same thing...they just didn't know how.

Just to add to this, yes the Holley CAN be programmed to do the job. BUT we had Brian Macy here for the dyno and it is not possible to cut the ignition power to the coils on the Holley (his words), apparently. You would need to do it with timing or the throttle blade. which is not as fast. We discussed using the blip module in conjunction with the Holley to make the engine smoother especially on the down shift as it does really need to have the fuel trimmed down at that point to reduce the backfire and popping. Brian felt the blip box is the best option.

The blip box is adjustable, Taking to David from PPG tranmissions (who build the T56) you can adjust the time delay both up and down shift and that is something we did not mess with yet, we have the newest software version and are looking at it and what it can do. there are 3 different systems that all need to work together the Holley the Autometer dash and the Blip Box. so it will take some time and laps to get it all in sync for sure.

We added alot of accessories to the car engine transmission and diff coolers all with thermostats. the engine uses a inline manual stat and the trans and diff have temp senders in them that switch on a Tilton circ pump to pump it to the coolers. no need to circ it 100% of the time, that is all controlled by the Holley the power steering cooler is just in line and 100%

We will have another track /day practice /set up and will likely have Brian and Max (from Xineering) as he has offered to come and help with the set up, it is a team effort to get all the systems operating at their peak.

Hope that explains a couple things

Actually — in Sutton’s defense — he didn’t make every choice in a vacuum. We had discussed the auto blip function and as many things - there’s more than one way to get a job done — We chose the box based function because it’s effective “time wise” - vs doing all the tuning required to get it just right in the Dominator system. The box is effective and relatively simple....

These cars today begin to get “electronically” complicated.... how many guys know the Dominator tuning - now add shift boxes - now add V-Box system - and the dashboards used today. We were trying to do “simple” - simple means “easy to learn and adjust” without the need of flying in people - and the track time to develope etc.

Dirt missile 2
 

I remember talking to Jeff Foster a few years back
(he drives a very bad ass Cobra).. they were trying out
a new porsche with the new sequential trans
He told me it was like cheating.... he was messing
with it at the starting line of an autocross and it was in
4th gear... the brains of the car automatically put it
down in 1st and he was off.. it did it so fast he didn't
lose any time.. but Porsche has a lot of testing etc
in their cars.

I changed the cam in my 47 year Old Pantera because
the GT3's were starting to pull me down the straight
all because of the new sequentials

You can pick up a new Gt2 RS at the bottom of the
ocean where that ship went down:)

Dirt Missile is really looking great nowadays


Bob

Glad things are coming together and that the "dialing in" continues. It was a lot of fun to watch Jay run the car and the crew at Speedtech have done a great job. Looking forward to seeing more.

:popcorn2:

Car looks great and and the track vids show Speedtech did a wonderful job recreating this beast

Are you using a fire suppression system?

I was going to leave that out and hope the old car burnt to the ground..... but yes — LOL — there’s a full fire suppression system in the car.

I was wondering where they placed the nozzles?

"Special" Nozzles or ones that work?

Typically there would be one (or more) in the engine bay — and one on the firewall inside the car - and one at the fuel cell.

Remember that these systems really aren’t made to put out a fire — they’re installed to buy the driver time to escape....

The insurance policy you obviously hope to never need.

Better check the bottle. It may be filled with “sauce”!🙄

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

More likely overfilled with BULLS**T !!

Little update
we removed the JRI shocks and sent them to JJ at Ultimate Performance for him to dyno them so he knows what he is dealing with and then we can do some more set up on the car and decide on spring rates and such.

Next up will need to be another Track test day.

Side Note if you are interested in seeing the car we will have it at LS fest. unfortunately we will not be able to run it.

Blake, great job on getting this pos fixed up, cleaned up and back on track. From what I’ve seen and heard y’all have done an outstanding job.

Maybe I missed it or was never mentioned on here but what was done with the rear suspension? I know like most everything else there were some concerns with the original set up, just curious.

:flag2::cheers:

Anything wiz bang optimized sauce from Sutton was cut out - trashed - or otherwise done away with.....

Therefore — the decoupled weak sauce rear end suspension was completely removed. It’s now a tried and true simple 3 link.

Anyone that has attempted to use this decoupled crap from Sutton has had to reengineer it..... his spring rates were wrong - his connections were weak - and on top of that - there was never any reason to go this route to start with — with the one exception — it kept you in his camp and made you dependent on him for what the heck he sold you.

From the outside looking in, when someone has that much to say and makes it
That complicated, the sirens better be going off. The analogy, “smoke and mirrors” comes to mind.

Is it possible to explain the difference in how JJ is setting up the shocks to perform vs what Ron had done? JJ obviously knows his stuff, I'd like to hear what a shock expert says a shock should be doing for you on a track throughout a corner. I believe Ron stated he used shocks to "tie the car down" in corners to set the car for proper roll center .. is this not correct?

No expert here, but wouldn’t “tied down” imply a lot of rebound?

When a car has a "high travel" front suspension that has a lot of caster gain with compression, then the desire is to set and hold the compressed condition in order to get the benefits of both the improved dynamic camber when the wheels are turned (increased negative camber on the outside, increased positive camber on the inside tire) and to hold the roll center at the pre-established optimum dynamic value. In order to hold the compression, the shocks are valved to hold the nose down from braking just prior to turn-in to roughly the apex when you start to unwind the steering wheel and apply throttle. NASCAR used this early on with their soft spring/big bar set-ups, but when the minimum ride height rule was relaxed, they just went to setting the car at the compressed height (splitter almost on the ground) and let the shock bump stops hold the nose off the track. Cars with stiff spring rates, lots of body roll, limited front end travel, and/or that don't have geometry that adds a lot of caster with travel benefit less from shocks that pin the nose down.

Pappy

Good question Steve......


Here’s what I know for fact..... Relampagos and Cuthbertson (to name just two guys) scrapped the secret BS sauce for JJ’s set up and both go much faster now and like their cars better....

Other people I know in the biz have stated “we revalved 3/4’s of the Sutton spec’d shocks”.

So with that info — we took the JRi’s off and we’ll have a look at what the valving is.

Dirt Missle
 

Every time my buddies and I would get a new dirt bike
we pull the forks and shock and bring them to a local
guy that would revolve and tweak them. Answer a few questions
and he would do his magic work. I rarely would have to play
with any of the clickers. Not that easy with my cars
Maybe too many shocks to deal with

Bob

I have the shock dyno sheets for both the Sutton spec'd and Smitty spec'd valving now in my shocks. For me, it wasn't as much about taking rebound out as it was about adding compression. To my knowledge, Ron has never even ridden in a car on an autocross course and I now believe he really doesn't understand just how much force we put on these suspensions and how fast it happens.

Having rebound is good as you do need to tie the suspension down for a set amount of time, but more importantly for my case is compression as we need to slow down the way the front compresses so it doesn't slam at the bottom and shock the street tires causing loss of grip.

Ron used to tell me to soften front compression when I'd tell him it was pushing because he thought the front wasn't traveling enough, when in reality the push was from the suspension bottoming out and shocking the front tires.

Chris watched me run on course 1 time and immediately had me go full stiff on low and high speed compression on Ron's shocks and it helped tremendously. The shocks got sent back to Ridetech the next week for revalving.

Thanks Lance, that makes a lot of sense

Heads up!
 

So —- while I keep saying “the last of the Sutton Secret S****t” is gone....

THE SAGA CONTINUES!!


The JRi shocks were sent to JJ Furillo — for full dyno testing and examination - recommendations - rebuilding.....

Yes —- once again there was virtually NOTHING correct. Wrong gas pressure — wrong valving —— missing pieces —- both rears had completely different adjustments set.... WTF —- he pitched himself as “mister shock absorber” (my quotes).

After Jay running the car at LVMS —- he expressed a lack of confidence in the brakes... so after consultation with Stoptech —- their recommendation was about the complete opposite of “mister Stoptech brake man” (my quotes). The car had 30’s in front and 33’s rear —- Stoptech recommends 34’s Front and keep the 33’s in the rear....

PERHAPS THIS IS FINALLY THE LAST — but NO ——— the master cylinder bore may also have to be changed.... but we’ll wait until Jay runs the car with the Sutton spec on the 20th at LVMS.....

SO —- MY POINT??? MY point is — if you have ANYTHING THAT IS SUTTON SPEC — get a second or third opinion on what it is.....

Bought a used "sutton " aka Detroit speed sway bar off another member... glad it hasnt got any sauce on it

Sutton has nothing to do with Detroit Speed -- which I think you know -- but just so everyone reading is clear on that.