^^^^^^^^^ First cousin??:rofl: :rofl:

Thank you thank you thank you

I edited your post. While you think your post shows support for this guy (it does) it also does more harm than good by naming him. I guarantee it will turn into another bashing thread.

I would encourage you to support the vendors and dealers that support you. If they take care of you, give good advice and service, and pricing that fits the budget that's what matters.

Well said... I've been in a customer service position from day one of my working life, from restaurant manager to territory sales to... Customers are king! Positive customer experiences will make or break you and will be one of the only things that set you apart from your competition.

Complaining about "needy" customers on a reputable forum like Lateral-g is tacky IMO. If you don't want potential customers to ask you tech questions or rely on you to guarantee wheel fitment, don't promote it on your website! Have a customer dispute? Why not try and work with the customer to resolve the issue? A little goes a long way...

I have no personal "beef" with any vendor on this website, but I would also like to thank Scott and Dave at Forgeline for going above and beyond. We were burned by a private label wheel designer last year for $4,600. After the final 50% payment was made, the vendor went out of business. Forgeline manufactured the wheels for this company, so they were in the loop and probably got burned on the deal as well. Long story short, we ended up losing a ton of money but Scott and Dave definitely stepped up to the plate. Exceptional customer service!

I’m going to make a quick post here. I’ve been trying to keep up with this thread so I may have missed something, so I ask for forgiveness if I’m rehashing anything. It's also kind of a general post so don't take anything personally, I just quoted you to address a couple of things you mentioned.

I’ve been in customer service for most of my life and I can understand the frustration involved. Even though customers are the life blood of a business, not all of them are beneficial to a company. I have experienced more than my share of ignorance, abuse, theft, and on and on. (My (favorite) first lesson was when I was a 14yr old paper boy.) Customers are people like anywhere else. I’ve learned over the years that most people that say that the customer is king simply don’t personally deal with a large volume over many years. It is emotionally and mentally draining sometimes and it is something most people either burn out on, or move on to another position. I will say that those that don’t personally do it, don’t preach to those that do. I’ve also helped a lot of people with no nonsense and money saving advice. That’s where I’ve been able to retain most of my customers (now friends) over the years, and it’s great when they come to me when they need help. It’s not an ego thing, it simply tells me that I’m doing good at my job. When you help someone in a meaningful way they will want to return the favor just the same if someone does the same for me. Sometimes I actually make it a point to go out of my way to return the favor.

I have some ideas and suggestions if it will help, if not, then no big deal. When I’ve held a position that had proprietary knowledge there was a lot of pressure from a lot of people that needed correct information and advice at the time of contact. It was so bad that it didn’t leave me time to perform the job I was hired to do. My response was to create a document that was appropriate for the people that needed the information. No frills, nothing fancy, just the info, how to use it -and I refined it over time to keep it up to date. The document was well received and had a lot of value for everyone involved, and if you can create something similar it will have value for you as well. In this situation, I would suggest that you either refer customers to a site like this for basic advice, or create a public forum and/or post emails (with permission) answering common and useful questions. Then when you get a customer on the line with a million questions you can refer them to where they can get the correct information at the time they need it. Then they can get back to you if they have any additional things to ask. Emails are great in that you can get back to someone when you have the time to provide a decent reply, and if it’s something common, you can get away with cut and pasting important things without forgetting something and then having to recontact or retract something. It also provides a way of looking back on conversations as well (specific parts/combos etc.). If you don’t already have a Bluetooth head set -get one. When I’m repairing something or they hear me typing/working or what have you, they can hear how busy I am. I’m also able to get two things done at the same time. It’s kind of like they’re next you while you keep doing what you need to get done. Another thing you can do while you're talking is finding out what their needs and wants are in order to help you come up with new things that they are looking for. IMO, it would be a waste not to take advantage of the opportunity.

Another thing that you might have to face is that many people just want cheap parts. That’s why most companies have separated their product into two lines. I personally hate it since when I buy a brand, I like to count on the quality being the same. Unfortunately, the market won’t support that and you may have to strongly consider a cheaper product line in order to compete. Doesn’t have to be crappy, it can still be quality, just no frills. When I was younger I used to buy my parts at a particular store because of the quality. One day they quoted me what I thought was a cheap price, but when I got the part home it wasn’t what I was used to. I went back and said that this wasn’t acceptable. The guy there replied that they couldn’t sell the better quality parts, however they still carry the high quality line, but I would have to specifically ask for it. The store still exists today and I still buy parts there.

Keep your product unique, help make sure your customers receive the info they need while still being able to manage your time, offer a cheaper yet less desirable alternative (because that is what the market is dictating to you), and keep looking for ways to maintain a competitive advantage that the bigger places can’t infiltrate.
-Sorry about the length I get to typing and end up with a novel sometimes. lol

Maybe I'm naive but I don't understand why this is such a big issue.

If someone calls you and starts asking you about backspace/wheel fitment why can't you, before you start giving out info, politely ask the person which wheel he/she is interested in and what size. From there I would ask them if they are ready to buy. If they aren't and they say they are just shopping then I would tell them that when they are ready to buy you would be more than happy to provide them with all the necessary information needed for wheel fitment.

If they don't call back then they were never really interested in buying from you anyways.

John

I agree, in part, with the above statement. However, There are some flaws in logic with it.

Primarily, when canadian dealers of speed parts are marking them up 200% or more and give you some bull**** song and dance while in the meantime they themselves broker the same parts from the USA getting them at US prices that I can get, then I call bull****.

Having said that, I support local businesses when they are the better price or are extremely competitive with US prices making not worth my time to run to the border.

If a car hobbyist from Canada that's building a car is going to buy parts from the US, there's a right way and a wrong way to do it. Buying parts in large sections(ex. Frames, drivetrain, wheels, etc, things that are thousands of dollars) all at once and pick it up in one or two trips then its not bad. Running to the border for a $2 doo-hickey is stupid.

My guideline for Cross-shopping is as follows:

If the Cdn. dealer is 10% higher than US price or less, then money stays with Cdn dealer.

If Cdn is 25 - 30% higher than US price then I will think about buying it in the US.

If Cdn is 50% higher than US price or more then its a no-brainer.

There are exceptions to the rules above but for the most part and for most ppl, going on weekends is certainly not a dealer-breaker.

I will state that I am not a customer of 64pontiac's but when dealers start mouthing off acting arrogant and/or start crying about how they can't compete with US prices, it really gets old and annoying especially when the CDN dollar is worth more than the US Dollar. I have NEVER been charged a US BORDER $10.75 USER FEE for pick-ups, EVER!! Only applicable duties and PST/GST and the $5/pkg at the depot

I find it hard to think a CDN dealer is charging 200% mark up in this day and age of the internet, but hey anything is possible. I Wouldn't think that would promote a huge amount of sales.
Building cars in CDA has ALWAYS been alot more expensive, in years past I used to take the US dollar and just double it to get my cost.

It also depends also how the dealer is bringing the parts in, if they are using UPS/FedEx then it is a total rip off and is stupid expensive to ship across the boarder. (this is where Tyler and i differ as he is not regularly going to the US and is further from the boarder than us and we do go on a regular basis so for him it probably makes more sence to have the parts delivered direct to him)
If the dealer is sending their delivery truck and parts person over the boarder to pick up the parts and broaker them then there should be a small cost passed on for that don't you think??? they just saved you a bunch of money on the shipping and the dealer just used his truck, gas, insurance, driver, ect to go get your parts, probably others peoples parts as well. oh and they had to pay the 5.00 per package handling fee as well (same as you would have)

You are not paying the 10.75 boarder fee because you are not a registered business. If you are going to the US and importing parts that are not for personal use then you need to have a valid importer # for CDA as well as a valid SCAC code for the US side and you need to go through Commercial customs on your way into the US and pay the 10.75, that is how it works. if your not doing it that way then your doing it illegially. Hell when I take my car into the US for a show or event I have to go through commercial customs pay the 10.75 and get a temporary B2 work visa, because my vehicle is registered.

It has been a while since the CDN dollar was worth MORE than the US dollar and even when it was it didn't last long. Currently it will cost you about 1.3% if your getting a good deal. On Friday the exchange was at less than 1% if your buying cash so very close if your using your VISA card then it will be closer to 4-5% plus now some banks are charging a international tranaction fee on top of the exchange rate

I remember in 2006 when it was almost 30% differance that hurts, buy a part in the US for 100.00 pay 130.00 CDN, then add shipping in US dollars add the exchange to that as well. and 200% differance in US and CDN price comes pretty fast. but today not the same situation.

One saying that I have always hated....

The customer is always right.....

Sometimes the customer is dead wrong and just a complete a-hole....

But if you want to succeed in business sometimes you have to suck it up and swallow a little pride and live by the saying...

I think this thread has done what I hoped it would, got people talking. I knew that some of what I originally posted would be taken too literally, or seen as whining and complaining. Of course it would, we are for that matter communicating via a message board, but the important thing was to get it all out in the open. I knew I'd be putting myself at risk of being ridiculed or bashed as well, but I can tell you, I think the long term benefits far outweigh the short term knee jerk reactions to the post. The long term benefits being, that customers will start thinking about loyalty to your vendors. Also, vendors will start thinking about their loyal customers and taking better care of them, and that its more about the relationships, then saving 20 bucks. And, that hopefully, the discount whores will stop it, and realize your not doing anybody any good.

And this is exactly what we do. I'm just ranting that it sucks we have to do it, and its too bad that we still have customers who get upset about us asking. No, I'm not charging customers for tech advice, BUT am I not giving it away for free either. I do ask customers when they call more about what their goals are, and what wheel they are thinking about doing before I get into moving forward. We do exactly that, read the customer, get an idea if they are serious, and move forward accordingly. But, it has happened where customers have called and said first thing: What fits a 69 camaro? Nope, I"m not buying from you, but I know you know what fits, can you tell me? And I'm looking forward to this thread hopefully killing some of those calls...

Dave, thank you for your two cents, and I'm glad you are happy with the wheels. I would at least hope you'd agree that every time you messaged me, or texted, I responded. I never ignored you, which in my book, means I customer serviced you...It may not have been the answer you were looking for every time, but it was an answer. And thank you for your compliments on the quality of the wheel. In response to the early comments in that post, where you comment on "It's insane to ask a potential group of buyers to all behave a certain manner and take in to account the personal lives of those selling a product" I partly agree, but my rant has to do with the "I sent you an email at 5:30Pm on Friday, and its Monday and haven't heard back from you" style of complaints. I'm simply asking customers to think about how ridiculous that complaint is before getting huffy and pissed to the point of coming on here and flaming a dealer. That dealer probably checked out at 5:00 on Friday like most do, and checked back in on Monday.

I'm not saying customer service isn't king either here guys. Of course it is, I most definitely agree with that. Perfect example is with Dave above, after his Fikse order went bad, I gave him my personal cell number so he could communicate with me via text and phone. I'm asking everyone to remember what good customer service is... and not expect that everyone works 24/7, and that most of what we do here, doesn't happen over night either. And that good customer service doesn't necessarily mean a free set of wheels just because you "don't like" what you got. My goal here was to try and bring everyone back down to reality, and try to point out some obvious things that for some reason just were not addressed previously.

Also, a big thank you to each and every one of you that called to talk about this thread. I enjoyed our conversations, regardless if you posted in it or not.