Lookin' Good!:trophy-1302:

Long overdue update...

Well not even sure where to start so I'll start as far back as I know I haven't posted up on here.

We had some clashing issues with the SW headers and the Precision Metalcraft valve covers, so the decision was made that one of the two had to give...
http://i.imgur.com/PvXlRj1.jpg

While we were doing that work I bought the transition section for the GT35R inlet and the headers were modified and welded. Much better fitment now than before!
http://i.imgur.com/e9if0a6.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/yJsWfSQ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/7RM9moU.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/lp8Zqn2.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ExRQsfn.jpg

After that was completed, I decided I'd give the Holley Hi-Ram a shot as I am woried my composite intake will give up when we start pushing 20+ psi through the engine.
http://i.imgur.com/nXEFiKv.jpg

Wait a second...That doesn't look like it'll work...
http://i.imgur.com/eaF4hRz.jpg

The tape measure is the top of the fender line...Not even close.
http://i.imgur.com/sYh4nsC.jpg

Good thing it was only a test fit and I hadn't spent the money on the Hi-Ram yet...Time to drop a little more coin. This kind of thing is how the project got the name "Might as Well." Details: RCI Billet Runner intake
http://i.imgur.com/sk46bOA.jpg

Time to change up the dash that I picked up for it. Got some holes to fill so the new display will work.
http://i.imgur.com/ZonPFKm.jpg

Looks like it will JUST fit!
http://i.imgur.com/WDknHYq.jpg

Next I took on the task of installing the JRi Ride Height Coilovers I won at SEMA!
http://i.imgur.com/05jhnGS.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/tsBbVYB.jpg

I set them to see how LOW they could go first. Front looks good, but maybe a touch low for where i want it. In the picture I have about 2" of compression travel before it would contact the bump stop.
http://i.imgur.com/WnbvheC.jpg

Rear IMO is MUCH to high!
http://i.imgur.com/57MVkxp.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/T6O8Djn.jpg

Working with JJ at JRi, we got a different set of springs coming. Took out the 8" spring and went to a 6" spring. I did a little testing to see where i needed the car to sit for the look I wanted. Both springs were removed and I jacked the car to where i wanted, which will give about 2" of rear travel before the bump stop. I may raise it a little from there, we'll see how it ends up riding.
http://i.imgur.com/TOyJQtt.jpg

While I was waiting on springs, I used the help from this board to pick a steering wheel size and what adapters to go with! NRG short hub adapter was the first to arrive.
http://i.imgur.com/FSk509X.jpg

Soon followed by the NRG Gen 2.8 quick disconnect.
http://i.imgur.com/B7puRou.jpg

And finally the Momo Race wheel arrived.
http://i.imgur.com/zLzZt0V.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/r8yYZOo.jpg

The 6" springs arrived from JRi and I put them in the car and set it as low as it would go to get a starting point. Seems right in line with what I wanted. It will come up about 1-1.25" from here (maybe). In the picture I have about 1" shock compression travel only, so will need to raise it some.
http://i.imgur.com/aHCijYX.jpg

I also got the steering wheel and quick disconnect installed as well as the steering shaft so the car can officially turn by using the wheel! First time in ages!
http://i.imgur.com/KZkHdrr.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/yw4xTss.jpg

Now the front has been taken off and the car set on the ground for the future work.
http://i.imgur.com/EctcwNc.jpg

From here, the motor will be pulled out and the firewall will be finished up. Motor/Trans and all the front sheet metal will be going back on the car in the next week-ish, so the car can go to another shop to have the turbo kit finished up. Appointment for the turbo shop is 8/17 so we have a lot to do to get it ready to go over there, but I'm confident that we will get it there. The fab shop said approximately 2-3 days to do the hot/cold side piping and then it will be back to have the finishing work done.

William

1969 Camero
 

William,
very cool stuff.. I always had a thing for an orange 69
Mine was a red Z28 many years back.... this car is going
to be bad ass for sure..keep up the good work

Bob

Thanks Bob. I've always had a thing for the orange ones also. This car wasn't orange when I got it in 1997 but it was in 1969 from the factory. Returning it to it's former glory (with a few changes on the way).

William

Looking good...
 

Things are looking good, great to see progress.

:flag2:

Looks great!

How do you like that NRG setup and how was it to install? I've got one waiting and have been wondering. Also how far from the dash is the steering wheel now?

Keep at it!


:captain:

I like it so far. It's out further but not sure how much more than stock. I can take some measurements if you let me know what exactly you want.

69 camero
 

I put a quick release on the Pantera a while back
that was for security when I traveled. Take the wheel into
the room at night. It also gave me more room for my long
legs since it moved the wheel closer to me. I hated it at first
because I felt too cramped in my arms. I almost took it off
but finally got used to it

Bob

Looking good man. Was fun wrenching on it last week. Have to do it again soon.

The car has been put on the ground with driveline in and sent to the turbo shop to have the piping done.

Still waiting on the RCI intake. Should be shipping in the next day or so.
http://i.imgur.com/4yquxFt.jpg

Front sheetmetal all went on so they know the limitations on the piping.
http://i.imgur.com/t7sHJGp.jpg

I gotta say it looks pretty good on the ground.
http://i.imgur.com/aluFVq8.jpg

Enroute to turbo shop!
http://i.imgur.com/qKjJ8Mk.jpg

Car has a new home for now.
http://i.imgur.com/7M2U7RP.jpg

At least it's in good company!
http://i.imgur.com/ffiaQDL.jpg

William

Just plain sick! Can't wait to hear it.

Well talking to Kevin at M2K, it does look like those intercoolers will be a restriction so looking at going BIGGER.

Little disappointed that AutoRAD knew the power goals with the car and said no problem only to give a setup that looks like it'll support about 850hp at the flywheel (625cfm/ea). This was the biggest they could run and keep the stock hood brace, but the stock hood brace doesn't fit with these either.

I understand typically the people that they're building a setup like this for are "1000hp" but never push the car much, and I cant fault them for that.

M2K is going to be upgrading the cores from 7" x 11" x 3" (625cfm rated) to 10" x 15" x 3.5" (945cfm/ea) and may try to push it a little bigger if we can. And build a hood support and latch to work off the intercoolers since they're rigidly mounted.

New sized intercoolers should have me efficiently covered up to around 1300hp at the flywheel which is right in line with what I'm hoping it will make!

Does anyone have any advice or leads on what to use for a hood latch? I like the ones I'm seeing posted on Lou's Change and Stielow's cars but cant find much detail on the latch itself and how they made it work. I saw one that was on screaming performance
http://screaminperformance.com/image...ch%20assy2.JPG but it appears they're out of stock...

Any help there?
William

I believe its out of VW Jetta

Will,

Here's a thread from pt.com on how to obtain the parts and build your own.

http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/1...hood-latch-diy

Yea it's funny, Casey (MEENAggie) already sent me that link in a PM. Doing a little more research and seeing if M2K can build a bracket off of the intercoolers to hold the hood latch and just eliminate the vertical brace all together!

I like the idea of an internal hood release.

William

Man sorry to hear about the Autorad/Intercooler issues, but sounds like it is in the right shop to address those issues. Awesome to see this thing moving forward again! You might hit up the guys at Sled Alley to see if they have any suggestions on the hood latch since they have been doing alot of the fab work on Stielow's latest builds?

don't know how I missed the updates but its looking great Will.

I thought the same thine when you bumped it up , very nice Will.

Thanks! There are a few updates and looking to post a few more soon. Had to wait on some WG piping and waiting on the intake manifold to ship. RCI is finishing it up now and will be shipping it out tomorrow morning I'm told.

Thanks :) Your car is coming along well also!

No problem I will shoot it your way as i believe it's still wrapped up in the box you sent to me last time! Should be simple!

So few questions on this. I see Fore Innovations as mark suggested can make a 2 and 3 pump configuration for the 267 pump. Questions that came up I have are:

Those will no longer be PWM correct?
The primary pump (CTS-V) will retain PWM and then will be full time when the second pump setup comes on correct?
Am I still limited on fuel pressure if I do a Fore innovations pump hat with 267s as the CTS-V pump is limited to 65psi? I'm sure the 267 can support more, but if the V pump cant it will dump back through that to the tank correct?

Thanks,
William

The 267's will be PWM'ed but perhaps on a separate controller. If I can get my hands on a Fore twin setup it's easy for me to test to see if all of them can be done on one controller. We're already doing twin and triple 267's returnless with a VaporWorx controller.

The CTS-V has a safety valve that limits line pressure to no more than 74psi, but it starts to bleed at 64-65psi. What can be done here is to put an inline check valve just after the CTS-V outlet (before it T's into the 267's but after the CTS-V pressure sensor). Once the 267's pressure increases to the point that the flow reverses to the CTS-V, it will shut. Once the downstream pressure reduces, the valve opens and the CTS-V comes online.

So, with the check valve, line pressure can increase (including manifold referenced.) Just be aware of the pump performance at the intended pressure, and if in doubt, have it flow tested.

One key function that the Fore setup has is the crossover connection. This "bleed" is needed for low fuel demand conditions, so don't plug it.

The difficult part of all this is the low-flow/idle/cruise requirement. We're talking systems that require up to 60a to drive at WOT, but not overheat the fuel during cruise/idle in a true returnless system. Considering that fuel pumps are typically in the 1/3 efficientcy range, that's a lot of heat to disipate unless the pumps are PWM controlled and staged.

When I get to that point, if it looks like I'll have issues with two CTS-V pumps, even with a BAP, I am willing to send the pump modules directly to you (even a CTS-V) so we can test flow and compatability to run on one controller.

The only issue I see here, is my second set of pumps (2-3 267's) will need to support the full fuel demands of the power. If a check valve shuts to stop the backflow through the CTS-V, then that pump is providing no benetif. If that's the case, why use the CTS-V pump in the first place if the 267's can be made to run PWM and support the power. Just a thought.

Good to know. That would definitely be priority for as mentioned concern about the pump performance above (267's providing all fueling at big power application)

How does that crossover connection ("bleed") help with low fuel demand? I haven't researched it much so asking for explanation on my ignorance.

This is the benefit of your controller correct? Allows the PWM usage on the pump and keep heat down in the fuel system.

Correct, the PWM function does:

1) Reduce heat. For most constant pressure systems it is typically a 50% reduction. Manifold referenced is usually around 66% reduction.

2) Electronic pressure regulation.

3) Returnless. No pressure regulator, return lines, etc.

4) Increase pump life.

Twin 267's on their own may be enough to feed your build, triple for sure, but there's no good way around the CTS-V pressure limitation if it to be added to the total fuel flow unless the pressure is under 65psi. The purpose of the single CTS-V is that since it has a reservoir to contain the fuel around the pumps and jet pumps to keep it full, it will allow for very low liquid level driving. The 267's would only come on when needed.

Some fuel needs to move through the pump during PWM. In traditional mechanical regulator setups the pump basically blasts past the regulator and the excess fuel returned to the tank. In this case, the column in front of the pump is compressible. For returnless, everything in front of the module outlet is essentially incompressible at no/low fuel demand since there is no return (mechanical regulator spring.) At very low fuel demand, especially at key on/low/idle, this means the pump is trying to push against an incompressible column. This causes the pump to chug. The fluid pressure downstream of the pump (pressure sensor) is low enough to allow PWM operation to start, but there is not enough volume for the pump to have smooth continious operation. Hence, pressure spikes, the PWM turns off, pressure drops, PWM on...... to the tune of about 10hz, all the while the pump is jumping like crazy. In the fuel module the jet pumps allow enough fuel to bypass for continious smooth operation. For twin 267's, the jet pump connection, which is also powered by high-pressure fuel, performs the same function.

The trick here is that the 267's are a different animal than the CTS-V, so different controller tuning is needed. "Tuning" may seem like a simple deal, but when dealing with these kinds of power levels while demanding smooth operation, it's boatloads of work. That's why testing a combination of CTS-V + 267's would be needed for validation.

Understood. Talking to m2k I think I'll run the two v pumps for now. See how they like boost and the power limitations. The. When the time comes, look at 2-3 267s and send those and v pump and controller to you for testing!

Ctsv pump seems maybe more suited for driving on a regular basis and have check valve and big pumps for big power. Can ramp pressure up on pump to offset boost pressure!

Manifold referenced can be done with any of the current VaporWorx controllers. The standard controller is tuned for 3bar, but tunes are available for other sensors (1, 2, 2.5, etc.) As a testament to just how good the ID injectors are, Mark is running 1200's at a static 65psi with good idle control.

Oh yea I know Injector Dynamics makes an awesome injector. Talked to Tony Palo and a tech at ID before swapping my 1300s out for 1700s!

They said idle may be a little tougher with the 1700 but what can you expect for an injector of that size!

I have made some progress on the turbo side of things and some more changes yet again.

Changes include:

• Intercooler Upgrade - Support more power as old ones were a little small...
• ID1700 to replace ID1300 - Support power on E85 if I decide to go that route. Went larger to assist with injector performance with lower fuel pressure (system capped at 65psi)
• Hood Change (planned) - Wanted to change up the look a bit.
• Hood pins instead of latch (planned) - Required for larger intercoolers. More I thought about it the less I trusted a makeshift hood latch. Rather be SURE the hood will stay shut!

Now onto the pics!
Car arrived at M2K and was put beside my friends build.
http://i.imgur.com/NXfmaRi.jpg

Last time you saw the car it needed a lot of turbo fab work and engine bay looked like this.
http://i.imgur.com/4yquxFt.jpg

Kevin got to work with the fabrication and managed to mount the turbos in a few hours.
http://i.imgur.com/Fr76OCP.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/aB9Idz3.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/h5BEYcW.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/SVSHZs2.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/PNWbLbB.jpg

There will be a panel infront of this sealing off the filter side from the engine bay. It will have a pass through with a big filter on the fender side and will have air fed from the grille.
http://i.imgur.com/l4Q7EMq.jpg

Mounting is complete and ready for more pieces to be installed.
http://i.imgur.com/HwmexZo.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/9PjQTGC.jpg

Waste gates were to be a tight fit given the location the turbos were placed with these headers.
http://i.imgur.com/BKhii9p.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/K39Z9h9.jpg

With some careful cutting of tubing to run the WG, we ended up with a nice symmetrical system that should allow for excellent control of the boost levels.
http://i.imgur.com/aggNrZz.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Sg3J65w.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/5dIczNf.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/7fcKvH6.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/eC5iPYg.jpg

Not only that but the turbos are even side to side in engine bay placement.
http://i.imgur.com/QeyRDUe.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/SfUhNJi.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/I8mGmwg.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/M6119P8.jpg

Time to start downpipe and wastegate dumps.
http://i.imgur.com/7Ah2R0f.jpg

Beyond that we are still waiting on the RCI intake to arrive.
http://i.imgur.com/sk46bOA.jpg

I have a mock intake they're sending me that will arrive this week, and he updated me with picture of the intake runners from my intake. This started off as a 5in x 5in x 18in solid block of aluminum!
http://i.imgur.com/Jb8JZYk.jpg

After some further discussion with Kevin at M2K and the Gerhard at Bell intercoolers, we discovered the old setup was only efficient to about 850hp (flywheel). We upgraded those cores from 7x11x3" cores to 11x15x3.5" cores. These are capable of efficiently supporting 1250 hp (flywheel). M2K will be building the tanks for these today and integrating them to the mounting positions on my radiator.
http://i.imgur.com/opmmAPH.jpg

You are killing it with this build. One of my favorites.

Good to see things progressing!

This change required me to look at new latching for the hood as that was the restriction for the original intercooler sizing. I wasn't happy looking at making the typical style work that pro-touring guys use, which incorporates an early 90s VW latch system. So I decided to go with Aerocatch latches.
http://i.imgur.com/cR2LB1v.jpg

With this change I started kicking around the idea of changing out the hood to give the car a look to stand out a bit. I found a deal on an Anvil Carbon hood with bare underside (hybrid carbon / fiberglass construction).
http://i.imgur.com/O39T8Zr.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/XByrg4Q.jpg

It's a bare construction underneath so will be light and give a little more room for the intake. (Pictured is full carbon, mine will be fiberglass and painted satin black on the bottom side).
http://i.imgur.com/ebqWk2H.jpg?1

I am looking to add vents to this above the turbo to assist in letting that heat out and try to relieve pressure under the hood at high speed (keep the hood from pulling up). Pictured is the vents that will be used, but they will be relocated forward and outward to be directly above the turbos (the reason for the measurements earlier).
http://i.imgur.com/kqfPdGA.jpg

Let me know what you guys think and feel free to criticize where needed!

William

I got a comparison shot of the new intercooler vs the original...I guess you can say things are getting pretty serious...
http://i.imgur.com/XTVtcZ9.jpg

Must be a nice change of pace for those guys at M2K to have to do a turbo build on something with SO MUCH ROOM! :rofl:

Kevin was pretty excited about it :)

Pics of the intercooler that was worked on today. He didn't stay very long, so this will be finished up tomorrow.

He sent me this and said it was my CAD (Carboard Aided Draft) fabrication for tank ends.
http://i.imgur.com/cxGokbT.jpg

Cut and folded.
http://i.imgur.com/M99bLqt.jpg

Enough for both intercoolers
http://i.imgur.com/ouSLV7W.jpg

First one put together.
http://i.imgur.com/58OVxHz.jpg

Driver's side mocked in. Still have to put the connections for the inlet/outlet and the mounting tabs to be finished.
http://i.imgur.com/k07QCMR.jpg

Looks massive in there!
http://i.imgur.com/Gth9wK8.jpg

And JUST clears my fog lights.
http://i.imgur.com/uSQdu2W.jpg

William

Those should make a nice difference in there. Sweet!

They should!

Nice updates William! Looks like some quality fab work being knocked out over there, once parts are in hand it looks like they don't mess around. That intake is ridiculous, looking forward to pics of that once you have it in hand

Any idea when you will get it on the dyno?

I'll make sure to get good pics and feel free to come see it when i have the actual manifold in hand.

It'll be a bit. Quite a bit of work left. Hoping its running in the next 6 months. Maybe not kill numbers by then but driving.

Another comparison shot.
http://i.imgur.com/itp7KXc.jpg