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-   -   WELD/SUTTON DIRT MISSILE build (https://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?t=56209)

Build-It-Break-it 07-09-2018 10:57 AM

Ron do you carry and sell the 3m 2000* seam sealer? How's many tubes would typically be needed to seal a car (approximately)?

Will you do a video on this car on your YouTube channel?

Just bought 2 time slots! Exciting

Once the time slot is purchased is it taken off to prevent someone else from buying the same time slot?

Flash68 07-09-2018 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton (Post 679863)


We have a betting pool ... similar to a football pool.
* 100 times between 1:50.0 & 1:59.9 lap time, a tenth of a second apart
* Pick one time or as many as your wallet can handle
* Closest time wins all the pool money & bragging rights
* Only 1 time, Best time of the weekend, counts

Pick your time(s) HERE.


Hey Sandbagger, I don't see any sub 1:50 bet options... :stirthepot:

GregWeld 07-09-2018 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Build-It-Break-it (Post 679865)
Ron do you carry and sell the 3m 2000* seam sealer? How's many tubes would typically be needed to seal a car (approximately)?

Will you do a video on this car on your YouTube channel?



Yes.....

My personal YouTube channel is under GregWeld or GregWeld1


Ron Sutton 07-09-2018 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Build-It-Break-it (Post 679865)
Ron do you carry and sell the 3m 2000* seam sealer? How's many tubes would typically be needed to seal a car (approximately)?

Will you do a video on this car on your YouTube channel?

Just bought 2 time slots! Exciting

Once the time slot is purchased is it taken off to prevent someone else from buying the same time slot?


We don't carry it. We get it HERE

Yes, it will remove the option to buy those same times. Or least it should do it. I better make sure it's configured correctly.


Ron Sutton 07-09-2018 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 679868)
Hey Sandbagger, I don't see any sub 1:50 bet options... :stirthepot:

:lol:

It isn't going to run sub 1:50's. Not enough horsepower.


Build-It-Break-it 07-09-2018 11:56 AM

Delete

Build-It-Break-it 07-09-2018 11:58 AM

Delete

GregWeld 07-09-2018 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton (Post 679874)
:lol:

It isn't going to run sub 1:50's. Not enough horsepower.




I thought we were building a "momentum car"???


:lmao::catfight:

Flash68 07-09-2018 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Build-It-Break-it (Post 679865)
How's many tubes would typically be needed to seal a car (approximately)?

I am interested in this as well. :)

GregWeld 07-10-2018 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 679914)
I am interested in this as well. :)

How big are your gaps? How much tin in the car? And on and on....


Order the stuff off Amazon --- or find it at your local race shop/store and take back the unopened tubes....

Build-It-Break-it 07-10-2018 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 679926)
How big are your gaps? How much tin in the car? And on and on....


Order the stuff off Amazon --- or find it at your local race shop/store and take back the unopened tubes....

I found them on Amazon to. I'm going to order about 5 tubes and buy as needed from there.

Flash68 07-10-2018 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 679926)
How big are your gaps? How much tin in the car? And on and on....


Order the stuff off Amazon --- or find it at your local race shop/store and take back the unopened tubes....

I have all kinds of little holes and access points in my rat trap... was always something I thought of "dealing with". :)

Amazon. Yep, thanks. :thumbsup:

GregWeld 07-16-2018 12:10 PM

Reminder ----- get your bets on!
 
Hey --- very few of you have much confidence in your guessing skills --- WTF....

Get your $5 and plunk it down on a square!!

Just found out -- I think we're running BACKWARDS --- so that ought to open this wide up!!



http://shop.ronsuttonracetechnology....1155531&c=6106




++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++

Flash68 07-16-2018 01:25 PM

hey Sutton.... does Benny have any lap experience at Thunderhill running the opposite direction? :headspin:

DBasher 07-16-2018 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 680250)

Just found out -- I think we're running BACKWARDS --- so that ought to open this wide up!!



http://shop.ronsuttonracetechnology....1155531&c=6106




++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++

This. Changes. Everything. I may have to pick up a few more squares and put some scientifical thought into it. I know the rearview mirror is huge but am now second guessing Ron’s “aero package”....no offense Ron but I’ve seen aero really start to unwork when the car gets turned around. :headspin:

TrackMuscle 07-16-2018 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton (Post 679863)
Some of you may not have realized on our shake down day the car wasn't ready to race or run many laps because the interior tin wasn't sealed & the exhaust wasn't thermal barrier coated.

The cockpit needs to be fully sealed from the engine bay & fuel cell area. We use a 3M Fire Retardant Sealer good up to 2000°. The exhaust runs so close to the transmission, the gear oil would overheat in it if the exhaust was uncoated. So we Jet-Hot coat the inside & outside of the header tubes & exhaust. (Mufflers only on the outside) This knocks down the radiant heat around the transmission & driver by 40-45°.

The Mustang comes apart late this week to go to powder coat. In our Track-Warrior cars like Greg's ... the steel floor, firewall & bulkhead/rear deck sheet metal are welded to the chassis ... and get powder coated along with the chassis & cage assembly. When it goes back together for final assembly, Randy Chastain will utilize the 3M Fire Retardant Sealer on every seam under the car, at the firewall & at the rear bulkhead & decklid sheet metal. This prevents C0², smoke, oil, fire, etc from entering into the cockpit.

I'm outlining this important step, because many of you already have, or will, modify the sheet metal in your builds & NEED TO KNOW it's critical to seal it & what to use. It's NOT OK to leave any seam unsealed. It's unsafe.

The car will go back together later this month & get ready to go run the NASA event at Thunderhill Raceway in Willows California on Aug 4-5. Since the car wasn't built to fit a class, we will run it in the "Unlimited" class of NASA's Time Attack, known as TTU. Since it is an unlimited class, often there are Prototype race cars that run in TTU.

https://digbza2f4g9qo.cloudfront.net...170127T222528Z

We won't stand a chance against any Prototype race cars, with our Trans Am style 70 Mustang. But if there are no Prototype race cars, we'll have a good shot at running up front. Our driver Benny Moon is super talented, but hasn't been in a real race car is many years, so he'll need to shake off the rust as we work up to speed.

I don't know how fast we'll get this first weekend. I plan to do only basic tuning for balance. But it would be fun to have a pool of folks betting on Benny's best lap of the weekend.

We have a betting pool ... similar to a football pool.
* 100 times between 1:50.0 & 1:59.9 lap time, a tenth of a second apart
* Pick one time or as many as your wallet can handle
* Closest time wins all the pool money & bragging rights
* Only 1 time, Best time of the weekend, counts

Pick your time(s) HERE.


I run in TTU and TT1 with my Viper's and yes indeed no normal car can hang with the prototypes. The proto's are deep into the 1'40's at Thunderhill. I wish they had their own class. I can beat all but the fastest of them, but I'm at 735rwhp, 2995 lbs and lots of aero. What is the RWHP of the mustang? You might be able to squeak into TT1 and be extremely competitive. Nasa uses a formula for the hp of your car, it's not the peak, it usually works out to about 10% less than your peak.

GregWeld 07-16-2018 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrackMuscle (Post 680260)
I run in TTU and TT1 with my Viper's and yes indeed no normal car can hang with the prototypes. The proto's are deep into the 1'40's at Thunderhill. I wish they had their own class. I can beat all but the fastest of them, but I'm at 735rwhp, 2995 lbs and lots of aero. What is the RWHP of the mustang? You might be able to squeak into TT1 and be extremely competitive. Nasa uses a formula for the hp of your car, it's not the peak, it usually works out to about 10% less than your peak.



Hope to see you out there!!

Are you running August 4/5th??

GregWeld 07-16-2018 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrackMuscle (Post 680260)
I run in TTU and TT1 with my Viper's and yes indeed no normal car can hang with the prototypes. The proto's are deep into the 1'40's at Thunderhill. I wish they had their own class. I can beat all but the fastest of them, but I'm at 735rwhp, 2995 lbs and lots of aero. What is the RWHP of the mustang? You might be able to squeak into TT1 and be extremely competitive. Nasa uses a formula for the hp of your car, it's not the peak, it usually works out to about 10% less than your peak.


Then it wouldn't be an UNLIMITED class....... I like the run what ya brung. The whole reason I built this car --- is because I hate rules. Rules just bring about cheating trying to make the class etc..... in TTU -- you run what you have and let the lap times speak for themselves. If you're not "competitive" -- then ya gotta bring more "whatever". My goal was never to win anything -- just be "up there". It's all just for fun and because......

TrackMuscle 07-16-2018 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 680263)
Then it wouldn't be an UNLIMITED class....... I like the run what ya brung. The whole reason I built this car --- is because I hate rules. Rules just bring about cheating trying to make the class etc..... in TTU -- you run what you have and let the lap times speak for themselves. If you're not "competitive" -- then ya gotta bring more "whatever". My goal was never to win anything -- just be "up there". It's all just for fun and because......

I hear ya! I run in both just so I can break more track records, but yeah worrying about cheaters sucks! I've got a stock ACR I run TT1 in and a 9 liter Viper I run TTU in, I've got 6 TT1 nasa records with the ACR and one in TTU with the 9 liter, I hope to add more soon. I've been following your build, been thinking about doing something similar but probably with a '69 Camaro body. I think I could end up being 350 lbs lighter than my current TTU car. Good luck at Thunderhill!

WSSix 07-16-2018 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 680263)
Then it wouldn't be an UNLIMITED class....... I like the run what ya brung. The whole reason I built this car --- is because I hate rules. Rules just bring about cheating trying to make the class etc..... in TTU -- you run what you have and let the lap times speak for themselves. If you're not "competitive" -- then ya gotta bring more "whatever". My goal was never to win anything -- just be "up there". It's all just for fun and because......

This, to me, is why old school NASCAR was so much cooler than today. There's no denying the tech of today is far superior but it's boring because no one can show up with a killer combo that just blows everyone away.

This is also why road coarse racing with different classes on the track at one time is great. It allows you to see just what the difference is in the classes in real time.

Anyway, I'm rambling and need to go into the garage. Good luck, Greg. Hope you have fun and the car does well.

GregWeld 07-16-2018 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrackMuscle (Post 680264)
I hear ya! I run in both just so I can break more track records, but yeah worrying about cheaters sucks! I've got a stock ACR I run TT1 in and a 9 liter Viper I run TTU in, I've got 6 TT1 nasa records with the ACR and one in TTU with the 9 liter, I hope to add more soon. I've been following your build, been thinking about doing something similar but probably with a '69 Camaro body. I think I could end up being 350 lbs lighter than my current TTU car. Good luck at Thunderhill!



We chose to build this car heavier --- rather than going all lightweight... I'm an amateur weekend warrior..... and this car was built so I could sneak up on it - start in HDPE 4 -- get comp'd -- and begin to run TTU.... But that was all before my f'ing cancer ordeal...

Now we have Benny Moon ---- and had I planned for that (me not driving) I would have asked for it to be built lighter. I was going for something I could drive at 85% -- be fast "enough" and be "safe" too. Ron has been my guiding light for a number of years now - and I know he wouldn't even build me one of his light speed rocket ships! For you? You need his 950hp 2300# '69 Camaro bodied babies!!! DO IT!! LOL

I never ever wanted to crash my Lotus 2-11....... nothing there but an aluminum box -- light and fast? Oh yeah -- but I would much rather walk away. It's only for fun.

TrackMuscle 07-17-2018 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 680269)
We chose to build this car heavier --- rather than going all lightweight... I'm an amateur weekend warrior..... and this car was built so I could sneak up on it - start in HDPE 4 -- get comp'd -- and begin to run TTU.... But that was all before my f'ing cancer ordeal...

Now we have Benny Moon ---- and had I planned for that (me not driving) I would have asked for it to be built lighter. I was going for something I could drive at 85% -- be fast "enough" and be "safe" too. Ron has been my guiding light for a number of years now - and I know he wouldn't even build me one of his light speed rocket ships! For you? You need his 950hp 2300# '69 Camaro bodied babies!!! DO IT!! LOL

I never ever wanted to crash my Lotus 2-11....... nothing there but an aluminum box -- light and fast? Oh yeah -- but I would much rather walk away. It's only for fun.

Shoot man, I didn't realize you had cancer. Well anyone with this kind of tenacity should do very well fighting that disgusting disease!

GregWeld 07-17-2018 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrackMuscle (Post 680331)
Shoot man, I didn't realize you had cancer. Well anyone with this kind of tenacity should do very well fighting that disgusting disease!



Thank you..... I had it lapped and then I spun out. But I'm still shifting gears.

TrackMuscle 07-18-2018 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 680333)
Thank you..... I had it lapped and then I spun out. But I'm still shifting gears.

If you guys ever want to take it here- https://www.indemotorsports.com/ I'm a member and can take guests. Would be cool to see it out there, it's an amazing track!

GregWeld 07-18-2018 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrackMuscle (Post 680369)
If you guys ever want to take it here- https://www.indemotorsports.com/ I'm a member and can take guests. Would be cool to see it out there, it's an amazing track!



Ah --- a Tucson guy!!


The guy that owns and developed that track -- and I have driven it (my Audi R8 Spyder) -- is a friend of, and lives in the same neighborhood, as my buddy Lee and they're very good friends. He's a super cool guy -- and into all the right things -- planes - cars - large boats.....

SSLance 07-18-2018 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrackMuscle (Post 680369)
If you guys ever want to take it here- https://www.indemotorsports.com/ I'm a member and can take guests. Would be cool to see it out there, it's an amazing track!

Inde is on my list of tracks to visit with Barney now that I'm out here. Have heard good things about it...

GregWeld 07-18-2018 08:53 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Remembering the R8 -- was a surprise birthday gift to my wife -- a friend made a "meme(?) out of a photo during the unveiling. LOL

Arie Luyendyk Jr shredded it's brand new set of tires in a few laps at INDE..... mostly just power sliding every corner - one handed while talking on the radio. LOL







Attachment 66409

Ron Sutton 07-18-2018 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 680253)
hey Sutton.... does Benny have any lap experience at Thunderhill running the opposite direction? :headspin:

I dunno

I don't think he has many laps at Thunderhill. So probably none in reverse.

Ron Sutton 07-18-2018 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBasher (Post 680257)
This. Changes. Everything. I may have to pick up a few more squares and put some scientifical thought into it. I know the rearview mirror is huge but am now second guessing Ron’s “aero package”....no offense Ron but I’ve seen aero really start to unwork when the car gets turned around. :headspin:

:badidea::stirthepot::action-smiley-027:

Ron Sutton 07-18-2018 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrackMuscle (Post 680260)
I run in TTU and TT1 with my Viper's and yes indeed no normal car can hang with the prototypes. The proto's are deep into the 1'40's at Thunderhill. I wish they had their own class. I can beat all but the fastest of them, but I'm at 735rwhp, 2995 lbs and lots of aero. What is the RWHP of the mustang? You might be able to squeak into TT1 and be extremely competitive. Nasa uses a formula for the hp of your car, it's not the peak, it usually works out to about 10% less than your peak.


Too many things keep the car out of T1, so TTU is the only class it fits in. It will be a fun deal no matter & that's all we're doing here.

Frankly, when Greg ordered the car, we were just planning a bad ass track car, not racing in any class. The engine is my Track-Warrior 3, which is our base LS7. Super durable rotating assembly & valvetrain, as well as a great ARE dry sump. We advertise it at 700 hp, but it will make 720 HP at the crank on race oil. Obviously less RWP. If we had planned to build a TTU car from the beginning, I would have recommended my 850HP or 900HP Dart/WCCH LS7s. We'll probably find we're somewhat competitive on lap times ... against most TTU cars - NOT Prototypes ... but off due to power. Greg ... and time ... will decide if we put a more powerful mill in it.


Ron Sutton 07-18-2018 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrackMuscle (Post 680264)
I hear ya! I run in both just so I can break more track records, but yeah worrying about cheaters sucks! I've got a stock ACR I run TT1 in and a 9 liter Viper I run TTU in, I've got 6 TT1 nasa records with the ACR and one in TTU with the 9 liter, I hope to add more soon. I've been following your build, been thinking about doing something similar but probably with a '69 Camaro body. I think I could end up being 350 lbs lighter than my current TTU car. Good luck at Thunderhill!


That's cool. What tracks do you like to run at?

Ron Sutton 07-18-2018 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrackMuscle (Post 680264)
I hear ya! I run in both just so I can break more track records, but yeah worrying about cheaters sucks! I've got a stock ACR I run TT1 in and a 9 liter Viper I run TTU in, I've got 6 TT1 nasa records with the ACR and one in TTU with the 9 liter, I hope to add more soon. I've been following your build, been thinking about doing something similar but probably with a '69 Camaro body. I think I could end up being 350 lbs lighter than my current TTU car. Good luck at Thunderhill!


Just some fun info to chew on ...
a. Greg's Track-Warrior GT weighs 2620# ready to run, minus driver
b. The 69+ Camaro "race weight" body is 85# less than this Mustang
c. Our Race-Warrior GT with thinner sheet metal & lighter design is 75# lighter
d. The Jerico Road Race 5-speed (Not-Sequential) is 55# lighter.
* The T56/PPG Sequential 6-speed is 55# heavier, but still quicker on track.
** The lighter sequential transmissions can't handle big power.

You could build a 69 Camaro Race-Warrior GT with 850-900 HP that weighs 2460# with the T56/PPG Sequential 6-speed, that would run mid 1:40's at T-Hill. Making the car any lighter would actually take away from performance.



DBasher 07-18-2018 06:34 PM

Ron-I went back through and saw pictures of the exhaust being routed through the tunnel, curious where and how it’s exiting. If I recall you’ve installed a mostly flat bottom with naca ducts for the rear brakes...any pictures on a lift with the full pan and what nots in place?

:flag2:

GregWeld 07-19-2018 08:18 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by DBasher (Post 680433)
Ron-I went back through and saw pictures of the exhaust being routed through the tunnel, curious where and how it’s exiting. If I recall you’ve installed a mostly flat bottom with naca ducts for the rear brakes...any pictures on a lift with the full pan and what nots in place?

:flag2:



We're not spilling our guts here...... LOL


Exhaust exits with dumps


Tunnel bottom closure/coverage is optional.... we'll be watching temps etc this coming NASA event now that it's coated with the 2000* stuff inside and out.


Remember the goal here --- was originally just for "me" -- so the fact that I might run 1 whole second slower average because of weight or aero not being IMSA LMP perfect..... yeah - big whoop.


Now --- having said that --- if a guy want to beat a track record -- or run with TrackMuscle..... then maybe all that has to be spot on.


See where Dylan is? See the muffler on the table --- that's going right above his head and then turndowns.... all of it beautifully TIG welded......





Attachment 66411

DBasher 07-19-2018 09:18 AM

Ahhh, I see...kinda. If I’m seeing and understanding correctly, exhaust runs through the tunnel, which can be closed off, past the rear axle (over or under) and dumps into the diffuser? If so, BRILLIANT!

Ron Sutton 07-19-2018 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBasher (Post 680454)
Ahhh, I see...kinda. If I’m seeing and understanding correctly, exhaust runs through the tunnel, which can be closed off, past the rear axle (over or under) and dumps into the diffuser? If so, BRILLIANT!

Haha. Not brilliant. Just common sense. But yes, the exhaust dumps in front of the diffuser so it can be extracted with the under car airflow coming out the rear of the car through the diffuser.

Track Junky 07-19-2018 07:21 PM

Dave Brown ran a 1:54 in Karl Chikas '69 Camaro w/stock subframe, lateral dynamics 3 link, 275's up front, 315's rear, & 650 hp at crank.
This thing should run 1:51's or less with ease

Vince@Meanstreets 07-19-2018 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Track Junky (Post 680490)
Dave Brown ran a 1:54 in Karl Chikas '69 Camaro w/stock subframe, lateral dynamics 3 link, 275's up front, 315's rear, & 650 hp at crank.
This thing should run 1:51's or less with ease

I assumed he was running 315’s all around.

Flash68 07-19-2018 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince@Meanstreets (Post 680501)
I assumed he was running 315’s all around.

Nope.

Flash68 07-19-2018 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Track Junky (Post 680490)
Dave Brown ran a 1:54 in Karl Chikas '69 Camaro w/stock subframe, lateral dynamics 3 link, 275's up front, 315's rear, & 650 hp at crank.
This thing should run 1:51's or less with ease

Dave Brown is not your average driver. :bigun2:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince@Meanstreets (Post 680501)
I assumed he was running 315’s all around.

Nope!


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