Quote:
Originally Posted by ironworks
(Post 624181)
All kidding aside I can guarantee you have learned alot of lessons through this process. Some lessons about the cars and some lessons on people or builders to be exact and I think you do the whole forum a favor to not be so politically correct. You don't have to name names. But others can and need to learn from other experiences. I think it helps the whole process.
I can guarantee you know 100 times more stuff now, then from when we spoke on the phone what seems like 100 years ago after selling your Porsche. There is a difference in bashing people and trying to rub their nose into all the problems and just hoping both parties become better people.
This industry has lot of customers who want the moon but really have no clue what it takes to get there. And builders who think they are everything to everyone. I see alot of builders who WAY WAY over promise and I truly think they think they can do it (inexperience). And you have customers who believe any story even though the builder has never produced anything because the want something so bad ( like the stripper at the dance club who says she loves you ). The builder just went to Harbor Freight with a 1000 bucks the next days opens a shop. Then you have the customer who has read every build thread and know they want all these parts and it should make him MARK STEILOW or DANNY POPP. OR they just carried away in their fantasy and dont even add up the parts total. Simple Math.
My guess of your history from the side lines is
1st shop just not cutting it.
2nd shop was just over their head for what you wanted
3rd shop way over promised
4th shop made other money doing bigger fancier stuff and you were back burnered with a project you were never happy with.
5th shop looks more your speed
I may have too many or not enough shops listed but this seems to be what I remember. I only say this as there is a huge difference between reality and how it works. And you have to be an expert by now or alteast learned some lessons you can share.
Every shop has a range of what they are good at. Alot of shops don't recognize that should say NO to something they suck, because they need cash flow or hate to see a job go somewhere else. And I think every shop serves a different level of expectation. Some shops are Sizzler and some The Steak house at the WYNN in Vegas. Each shop serves a client base. Its the guys who misrepresent what they serve or charge for that are the issue. And customers who have no idea what reality is.
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I have indeed learned more than a few valuable lessons here. And it's about cars themselves... and the builders/shops... and it's about you (me) as the owner/hobbyist. Lots of moving parts and just one of them not being right can really derail things. Sometimes it's about keeping up with your buddies.
I drove my fairly simple budget oriented car mostly as is for nearly 2 years upon buying it. Made some key "pro touring" changes/upgrades and it was pretty good to go. I got bored with it. The power. Everything. It no longer "scared" or excited me in a certain way. Sure, it was capable, but I wanted more. Remember, I had owned and daily driven more powerful cars than this so it was not surprise to me. Then it started getting a little stupid. My life is a little more conservative now (married, 1 kid) than when I first bought this car, and yes that does play a role in the bigger picture here. But then you started discussing shops and the constant delays/lack of progress with the car and those are issues pertaining to the shops directly. But the background is important and often times sets the stage - for better or worse.
While your quick assessment of the shops list Rodger is not terribly out of left field, there is no real need to get into specifics with each shop it's been at up until now. Most of that info can be found in this anti-epic thread if one is willing. I take responsibility for my complicit role in everything -- I am not one of those guys who claims he is always right and nothing is ever his fault. I am no mechanic. I am excited to work on this car (and drive it of course) once completed, but the serious work will be performed by trusted friends/local shops -- and there is good reason for that -- financial, safety and personal reasons are on that list.
Since you asked, here is my quick list of valuable lessons learned. Some are obvious and preached often, maybe some not so much.
Trying to stay local when choosing a shop makes sense for obvious logistical reasons, but don't force that issue if the right "fit" is just not there.
Productivity and efficiency (functions of experience) are KING -- not the bill rate.
Being the guinea pig for a shop is dangerous business. Take their track record of COMPLETING things seriously.
Personality and communication should mesh at a certain minimum level. Don't have to be best friends, but a working relationship is key.
Creative control - discuss this up front on any custom work. Do you trust them to just get it done in the best way they see fit? Or how involved do you want/need to be?
Don't let the cost of shipping a car to the right shop deter you from doing so -- it may save you thousands and be the right fit when all is said and done.
Trust your instincts. If it ain't feeling right, it is likely to not get better. Cut losses and run.
In sum, I could not be happier to have my car at Jim Pettigrew's place in Nascar country. Only looking forward from here.
P.S. Chad -- I love a good solid Panzer tank chassis. I'll see you at a CA track in 2016... maybe 2017. :cheers:
