Well, that's certainly no good. I wonder if it'll have any effect on GoPro.

So I decided to spend some money today and buy some more shares. For the fun of it, I did three separate limit orders. I was stoked to see all three of my orders went through especially since I didn't post them until 1pm EST. I should have shot lower. Every single stock I bought closed lower than my purchase price, lol. Oh well. Fun times.

Blaming the Gopro camera on his brain injury is the most stupid thing I've heard. How does a camera mounted outside the helmet with either a strap or double side tape have caused a brain injury?

Are you sure that's how it was mounted? Also, the double sided tape can easily be bonded well enough to radically change the forces applied to the helmet. Take 3M's outdoor double sided tape, the stuff with the red backing, it's ridiculously strong. Plenty of motorcycle riders talk about the drag the camera causes, too. It's very easy to understand how the camera could cause extra damage to the helmet depending on how it is installed/attached. If the helmet fails, then his head is virtually unprotected.

Greg, thanks for your candor and clarity. Amy and I had an epiphany after reading your response and realizing he really did not know what we were talking about and I found myself educating him. We laughed, in a pissed off kind of way, at the idea that not only are we paying him for advice but now I'm paying him for me to give him advice. WTF???

I can't wait for the day of ZERO EARNED INCOME! :military:

Financial Advisors always bust me up...


It's really hard to understand all of the tax rules - tax changes - little nuances that can have big impacts. An example --- I own an apartment complex that I bought inside our IRA... STUPID.... The income is considered "passive income" - that's not allowed in an IRA - so now the IRA has to file income taxes. Huge nuisance. Live and learn.

Here's my big point of the day. Nobody is more responsible for their own wellbeing than themselves... we owe it to ourselves to learn what to do - even on a basic level. It doesn't take very long. The internet has many sites that will explain stuff to us until we do understand. Investopia will give definitions on almost any term you can type in their search box.

A few bucks (a couple hours of their fee) spent with a tax pro -- and I don't mean the ones that set up shop at the mall just before tax time... I mean a real honest to goodness tax pro... is money well spent. Go to them when it IS NOT tax time! They'll save you money by helping you to not make mistakes.

A good brokerage - like Schwab - will also have people there that are well trained to guide people on IRAs and many other questions that people have. They WILL NOT help you pick a stock... but they can help with just about anything else... and they're FREE. It's so f'n easy.

Is it a good time to buy?
 

I wonder if the past 30-180 days performance, or lack there of, leads to a buying opportunity. An example is COP. They are down 13% since Sept 15th and down nearly 20% over the past 6 months and 5% YOY. There are a number of good payers out there so does it make sense to scoop some up at a discount. The saying goes, buy when people are selling and sell when people are buying? Or is there still discounting available to stretch the investing dollar? It is a long term hold pattern for us but my curiosity is getting the best of me knowing none of us have a crystal ball to truly answer this question, but there has to be some indicators to consider a good buy.

So I guess my question really is, what is a good indicator(s) to consider to make a buy but not wait until its too late and the "opportunity" to buy at a discount has passed on bye.

I will make this unequivocal prediction:


You will never buy at the low point - and you'll never sell at the highest point.


You buy when you can... and when you feel "okay" about the market. Buying is harder than selling. I "scale in"... I figure the position I want (in dollars or number of shares) and then I tip toe - then down or up - I buy more - and so on until I hit my position. Okay --- I fully get that I'm buying positions that allow me to do that. If a guy is buying 25 or 50 shares.... furgidaboudit. Just buy. If you're buying 100 shares.... buy 50 and then sit back and see how you feel about that (and all other inputs) and then buy 50 more when you're ready.


Now --- OIL is terrible.... all my oil stuff is terrible and anything related to oil is terrible. OH HELL YES I'M BUYING. As the price drops - the percentage the dividend represents goes up. The price that kept me out because the yield wasn't there - can now come in and that yield is suddenly in my range. I'm much more about the yield than I am about the few bucks the share price swing is "today - or this week". I'm going to go with my knowledge of the last 50 years that the price WILL go up over time. So the price I pay today isn't really all that important other than it makes me feel smart. What I'm really after is the yield on that particular investment. I'm a buyer in a terrible market I'm never a seller in that market.

What happens if I wait too long for just the perfect "low" -- the friggin' market snaps back on me and the next thing you know the stock I wanted to own has run away. So I just try to do the best I can over a longer period of time. Once you get your head around that kind of investing you have far less stress about it.

Real world "buying" regarding above question and answer about "when to buy".


Nobody knows. You'll never know. If you do -- you'd be the richest man in the world... the info would be priceless. I've never gotten it "perfect". I just do what I think is "okay".


I know energy is horrible - getting killed - might very well go lower.... I also know that September and October are ALMOST ALWAYS horrible months in the market. I stash some cash HOPING they are!! WTF.... it's like knowing you need sheets and you know every August all the stores have big white sales. Might as well get excited about the fact that you'll be allowed to put some money to work. Money sitting around is on vacation... a short vacation is okay -- but you can't let it sit around too long.


I bought 2000 shares of Energy Transfer Partners (ETP) at almost $59.... I bought 2000 more at $58.50.... I bought another 1000 at $58

I just bought another 5000 at $55.40

It might go to $50.... I don't know. I can't possibly know. But the yield on this is nearing 7%... and my average will yield near 6.74% (I haven't done the math - I just did the math and the 6.74% is my yield on my average cost). I'm done building this position. I will now sit back and collect the dividend at a respectable return. That's the best I can do.

Okay --- one more post this morning - because these markets are so "interesting" which gives me lots of fodder for posting.


The whole buying question is just "un-answerable".... I wish I had a pat response.


Here's one thing that I personally have trained myself to do. It took years to get to this point. I look at my investments as a whole. I don't look at them as "this stock sucks" and "this stock is hot". I own lots of stuff. Some of it's working - some of it is "okay" - some of it is "killing it". As long as I'm okay overall - then so be it. I can't get 100% working perfectly day after day. It ebbs and flows. I've owned property when you couldn't give it away -- right now - all the property I own (which used to suck) is deep into the green.... Right now I'm losing on my ETP purchases -- but I'm killing it on Con Ed (ED).... one is going down daily - one is going up daily. My "steady eddy" is the current hot ticket... WTF!! - my steady eddy is beating the pants off GoPro (GPRO) which would be killing me if I'd bought it near the highs.

After doing this for so many years --- I've come to understand that I'll never get it right -- but what I do know - is that I'm way ahead of where I was 10 years ago. That's winning. What happens today - isn't so important. I'm very confident that 10 years from now - I will most likely be richer than I am now. LOL What part of my investments that will get me there is anyones guess. I'll just keep plugging along. I keep my expenses low - and my investments liquid (for the most part) and I only invest in stuff that spins off cash... and that cash is the key. What they're worth this morning isn't the driver.

Today's market action is PRECISELY what I was talking about when I said you buy whenever you think or you can.


I bought that ETP when everyone was scared this morning - 5000 shares at $55.40 using a limit order... and now a few hours later they're trading at $58+

My first couple buys were too early. Okay - no biggie. I'll scale into the position and move my average cost closer to where it's trading. Might trade lower than my cost basis - but I'll move that direction in a down market. Ditto in an up market. If I was early and got some shares of "X" at $50 - and more at $55... and some more at $62.50.... I'm OKAY with paying up for them. WTF! The share are just doing what I hoped they'd do -- which is to go higher. Why would I then be afraid to buy more? Because it might go down? It might also go higher yet!! I can't ever tell so why get my panties in a knot over it. Do I want to own shares in the company or not. That's my more important question.


Am I smart? No. Lucky? Sometimes. But truthfully - it's more that I'm not afraid. I don't panic and sell - and I love to buy when everyone hates everything. You build calluses on your nerves. You look at your overall situation and think to yourself... "I'm in good shape"... "what does the income look like on the trade"... "are they going to go broke next year?"... "am I okay if it goes lower?".

I think they might be saying that instead of allowing a patch of the surface area of the helmet to take the impact (and flex accordingly), the gopro might have concentrated the load into a smaller patch or point, and caused higher stress on the helmet therefore causing it to crack

seems the journalist is now trying back track his statement a bit now.

http://autoweek.com/article/formula-...macher-reports

Quite possible as well. I honestly haven't looked into the situation at all. I just can easily see how getting in any accident with a camera mounted to a helmet can cause serious, unexpected injuries.

As for the topic at hand, my oil stuff is getting killed! The time to buy again is soon IMO. Weeeeeeeee fun times.

I think this is the first time for many readers where the market is probably spooking them. This is a good thing -- it's a good test for how people will react. We've had 3 or so years where the market has basically gone up day after day. Now we may be entering a new territory for "the newbs". Of course - nobody needs to report how they're feeling etc or what they're doing - unless they'd just like to... but let me say - it's okay to be afraid. It's okay to question what you're doing.

This is the time when you go back and review the longer term charts -- and to really understand what I've been saying about buying the best stuff and understanding the businesses you've bought.

I'll worry about timing the market in 25-30 years. I see every month as an opportunity to buy much lower than I'll cash out. :walkingdog:

My brother (whose a CFO of a large company) told me once, "its not timing the market, its time in the market". I like that one. I'm learning alot here lately.

Having a longer term horizon is probably the single most helpful "tool" a guy can have when he's investing. The day to day view will just drive you nuts.

Currently -- I think the biggest problem facing the WORLD economies are the very same things that haunt most individuals. They've spent way more than they can pay for. Eventually that will come home to bite people - whether they're an individual or a government (which is just a collective of wallets).

Thanks Greg.

I used your limit order strategy to pick up more shares in three of my existing positions at pretty good bargains IMHO this morning while I was on my way to work.

Time to go do some more shopping.

Yep,

I think everything I have is red except for 1 name I own in the financials sector...

it feels bad man, haha

But I am pretty confident in the stuff I bought, just everything seems to be dropping, I keep trying to channel my inner GregWeld and say "look at the 5 year chart, look at the dividends" haha

One beautiful thing that has happened in the last few days as a result of this pullback is the plummeting of mortgage rates.

I just rate locked this morning at 4.25% on a NON owner occupant 4 plex. The rate I was looking at just last Friday was 4.625%. And I was okay with that. But that's a huge spread in just 2-3 days. And that's a lot of fixed savings over 2-3 decades.

Basically, I just got lucky. :lol:

Yep, true that, last week I was quoted a 4.0 for my personal home and today at 3.8750 %

Sweet....Get the payments on auto draft with extra principal to get that baby free and clear in 15. Otherwise, you'll blow it on diapers and car warehousing. hahahaha

I'm a little uneasy with the pull back that's occurring as well. Mainly because I'm just not sure what to do with a couple stocks. KMP is a big one that I'm really not sure if I should pick up more shares in it knowing that it is going to be bought soon. I won't be getting rid of any of my shares but should I buy any more? I honestly don't know how to approach it since it will be rolled into KMI soon. This one may be beyond the scope of Investing 102 though.

OXY is going to suck for a while longer simple as that really. I'll add some more there I do believe and just ride it out. If I owned any of the other big oil companies I'd be doing the same thing.

My last oil stock is an MLP as well. It was and still is a gamble so there's not a lot of money invested there. It is so cheap that I really think I should spend some more on it and just see what happens. The dividend is well over 10% now because of the price drop. So yeah, decisions decisions. I'm glad I'm in this for the long run.

Trust me ---- everyone does the same thing no matter when they got started. At some point you're going to be dripping red ink. But you actually only LOSE the money if you sell!!! You don't sell --- you collect dividends --- and if you have extra dough - you but and bring your average down. Just don't get greedy.


Think about a guy that bought shares in 1935 --- or 1950 --- or 1986 or 1996! We are far higher today than at any of those points (just random numbers I typed). At each and every one of those points - they were most likely talking about how over valued the market was... or their houses.... or whatever else they'd bought -- like the nickel loaf of bread.

When I was a kid -- McDonalds sold you a burger and a coke --- 25 CENTS for both items! We thought it was ridiculous..... You only got 50 cents for raking old lady Smiths entire yard of fall leaves.

Trey -- I'm a little pooped after driving the semi 600 miles today. But I wanted to respond.


First thing people need to remember -- YOU NEVER HAVE TO BE IN A RUSH TO BUY.

Playing KMP is now what's called "arbitrage". In other words -- you need to do the calculations for what KMI stock is going to be -- because you're going to get "X" KMI shares PLUS CASH - for each KMP share.

I sold KMP (posted it up here) at high prices --- and it's come down a lot since -- but I bought KMI.... I took a hit in the dividend percentage (for now) but I had a huge cash gain in the KMP.....

RIGHT NOW - OIL SUCKS..... people are freaked out - hell - entire countries are freaking out. IMHO that's when you buy. We all know oil is a requirement for daily life. It might be on sale now - but everyone will figure out how to get it back up. It's too important to too many governments.

Just don't get greedy -- you'll feel better if it goes lower -- and of course - when things snap back you'll kick yourself for being such a wimp! LOL

GORDON..... as a borrower you suck. Nice score on the 4 plex!!!

Some good advice I read once on whether to hold onto a stock that has declined or not:

Regardless of what you paid for it, if you would be a buyer at the current price you keep it. If you would not be a buyer at the current price, then you sell it.

That would be nice if the building wasn't 108 years old (literally) and needing a tad bit of work. More upside!

Thanks. Let's hope it just stays upright for awhile. Kinda like you.

:hello:

This is why I think I'll just let it ride. I don't think I want to get into crunching the numbers to figure out if it's a good deal or not or at what price that changes. I have the shares now, they are earning a dividend, and I'll be rolled into another great company soon. If the sale of KMP wasn't already known, I'd be all over buying more though. Otherwise, things are peachy as far a I'm concerned. Thanks Greg.

Erik, I think that's a decent way to look a stock choice.

Here's a better way to look at a stock that is falling --- or a "market" which is falling.


If you loved the stock at 100 -- then you should love it at 80...


Here's why I don't play in the "priced for perfection" stocks. It's a given that not all of them blow up.... many go on to make people small fortunes...but when they blow up - they blow up.


You guys check out NETFLIX (NFLX) today..... DOWN 100+ ---- That's in ONE DAY. I can't personally stomach stuff like that.


BTW -- Yesterday while the market was taking a drubbing.... the account I use for sharing info on here was UP. It's also UP this morning. That's what I love, and can live with.

I noticed the same thing, this is what I'm really starting to like about dividend Growth investing...

Of the 4 I bought yesterday morning, 2 ended up for the day, the other 2 down a bit. Overall the account was up a half a point.

I'm shopping yet again this morning. It's real hard to not be tempted to get too greedy with oil stocks right now.

Well --- so here's something everyone needs to guard against -- and that's the opposite of FEAR -- it's GREED. We've had such fabulous market conditions for so long now - we've forgotten about real fear... and we just "ASSume" it's going straight back up. That can come back to bite people. We should never FEAR the market given what we should be invested in... but we should RESPECT the market. We don't control it - we're just along for the ride. There's so many old adages -- like Pigs get fat - hogs get slaughtered... etc. And these all ring true!! They're age old -- they're factual... and they're time tested.

So for those of you that are fearless --- remember these things. Scale in -- tip toe in -- don't go buying whole hog - and don't buy stuff you don't really understand -- "just because it's on sale". You'll end up with scratchy pants if you didn't know they were notoriously scratchy which is why the store put the on sale!! Yeah they looked great... yeah they're on sale half price. But buy ONE pair -- not a pair in every color! LOL



In the meantime -- I've made an absolute killing in the last two days. That doesn't mean I'll get to hold on to the gains... and I bought some stuff really well. But that's all that means -- is that I bought some stuff well. It could turn around in one day and I'd be bleeding in the streets. It's okay - I've been there many times. I'm still living to talk about it. :>)

I spent some time yesterday just selectively adding to positions I already held. I'm still not quite half invested again in my IRA account and I added some of the same shares into my ROTH.

This time it was much easier for me to hit the submit button on the orders as I'm 8 months in and have history and a good feeling/history on the stocks I own. Like Greg says, I'm tip toeing in...and I'll probably at some point regret not buying more during the dip...but given where I was a year ago, I'm happy where I'm at.

Anyone using OptionsHouse for their online account?

http://www.optionshouse.com/rates/

My wife ran across the site doing some stock research. Never heard of them but the prices look good. Just curious if anyone has any direct experience for how it compares to Schwab besides the rate differences they claim. Research tools? Reporting tools? Support? Etc...

Remember how skeptical you used to be??? After being burned in the market...


Isn't this different this time around? You're invested rather than just buying and hoping stuff goes up. That's a HUGE mental difference which WILL make a difference in your future. Being INVESTED and being comfortable being invested is what keeps you in the game.


Now -- A few posts back I told you guys about building 10,000 share investment in Energy Transfer Partners (ETP).... I was discussing the use of LIMIT ORDERS in order to insure I got a lower price during the day (you can set these for longer horizon if you choose that option). Well -- those shares are now UP 68 GRAND in just 3 or 4 days. MY POINT??? That's good money right? I would have blown those shares out so fast in the old days. I'd have scooped up the 68 Grand - had a 40% tax bill... and then been looking to put that back into something else. Sometimes that something else ate the rest of the gain the gubernut didn't take. THAT WAS STUPID.... Yes I made huge money on an annual basis "trading" -- but what I also did was paid monumental tax bills -- and my NET WORTH didn't go up. It was just trade trade trade.

Now -- I don't look at the paper gains... I look AHEAD at the dividend payments - what those are worth to me... and I pay a tiny fraction of the taxes I used to (my money is NOT in a IRA) --- and my net worth is growing. BIG CHANGE!!! HUGE!!! <Pretty Woman>

Or...just relying on a FA to make those decisions for me and then second guessing him or being pissed when I wasn't happy with the results or didn't understand the strategy.

Being invested myself lets me have a much clearer picture of what is really going on and actually takes less effort now and I understand the big picture better.

One can get bogged down in the details while trying to do too many things at once in the market. With just 10 equities to watch (I've actually got 11 now that I picked up some ETP) it's very simple and very rewarding.

Question.

My dad and I were talking about investments, he has been asking me lots of questions since he has seen me acting on what I have learned here. And yesterday he asked me to look at his 401k/IRA and asked what I would do.

Here are the specifics, he works for Halliburton (25+ years cant remember), he quit for a couple years to go with an independent oil co. they started to go south and Halliburton begged him to come back so before goign down with the ship my dad jumped back on board.

So he has his regular 401k, he has some restricted stocks with the company, and a bunch of unrestricted stocks and paid dividends just sitting in his account.

He is already retirement age, but wants to work till 2025.

My gut instinct (from what I have learned here) is to:
1)dump the unrestricted stock he has in halliburton
2)use it and the dividend cash he has sitting to buy some small stocks, and build a little mutual fund (it totals about 25k)

BUT is it "too late" as in he is too close to his retirement date? Should he just reinvest in the mutual fund his 401k is in?

I tried looking through the thread but couldnt find a similar situation

thanks gents

I'm not sure if this will apply to your father but for the masses here there is a little known fact about 401k's when you leave your employer. If you have a 401k with a former employer (and it's typically a poor assortment of investment choices) you can transfer it to a traditional IRA account at a brokerage of your choosing, Schwab, Fidelity, etc. If you do a "trustee to trustee exchange" this is a tax free event for you. The money can't touch your hands or go through your bank account, if it does it's a taxable even to you. It must be transferred directly from the 401k administrator to the brokerage handling the traditional IRA account. This opens up the possibility of investing in anything you choose, through that Traditional IRA account. The key is you can no longer be employed with that company that the 401k is with (you can't do this while you still work for the company). I just did this and didn't even change employers. The company I work for was bought by another company so my job is still the same but I still was able to take advantage of this and moved all of my 401k over to my Schwab Traditional IRA which I can now invest the "Investing 102 way".

My guess is that this does not apply to your father since he is now back employed by the company tied to the 401k but he might want to check since I'm not sure. Schwab or any of the brokerage firms that do this can answer that question for him. I talk to a lot of people that still maintain past 401k's with previous employers and the poor investment choices that usually come with them when they could be taking advantage of this perfectly legitimate "trick" (if done correctly).

I was looking through the options on his account (its through Fidelity) and on his 401k, its on a target date fund, and an assortment of target date funds and some bonds are the only options as far as the 401k

But I was talking more along the lines of the unrestricted stock he owns in Halliburton.

my only hesitation is because he is planning to retire in 2025, and I dont know if ~10 years is long enough to even out with stocks versus putting it back in his mutual fund

PLUS I know he will not actively look after it, which is why my thought turns to mutual funds even though I know they arent ideal

I don't know about the rest of you but this whole market down turn on the waves of dropping oil prices and ebola fears sure as hell wasn't as bad as they made it out to be. While I'm still down overall on a number of my shares, the trend has definitely been up, sometimes just as quickly as it went down, to the point where I'm going to miss some deals waiting for money to get transferred etc.

Ignore the noise.