As a former employee of Halliburton, I'm setup the same way. I don't have a crystal ball but I would think ten years is plenty for the market to go down and come back up. Oil is cyclical just look at the charts before 2010. If he was buying stock through the down time, he's sitting pretty with fantastic gains just like I am. I would pay attention of course but I wouldn't move the HAL stock just yet. It's what I am doing with mine. I'm no where near retirement age though. If he or you are wanting something more steady with better dividend payments, then there are plenty of options for you. I have no idea on the tax implications of selling the stock. I believe it simply follows the one year and a day rule even though it was bought through the ESPP.

Great, thanks for the info.

Also your post made me think of something that I had completely forgotten about, its not in an IRA, its just stock, so the tax side of it completely was not in my thought process.

Thanks again

OK, I will remove my tin foil hat after this post. GPRO, we know its IPO was a few months back and then it took off hovering around $90 a share for the last month. We then get a report stating that some famous race car driver's accident could have been caused due to the GoPro camera on its helmet.

On October 30th GPRO is scheduled to report their Q3 earnings. Which from financial report articles they claim they meet or exceed the earnings projected. Which if this is the case it could send the stock price back up.

NOW, could that article about the injury come out just in time to send the actual stock price down to allow more buyers to jump ship before the Q3 reports? This is where my tin-conspiracy-foil hat comes into play. Am I crazy to think this way? Or should I just stop talking and keep reading more.

sebtarta,

That would be something more like a day trader would do. We are investors.
You want time in the market not timing the market. What happens when you buy on the dip because of that helmet issue and then when the Q3 earnings report comes out they didn't do as good as well as they thought and the stock drops even further? Would you be mad?

Unless your portfolio is already loaded with good dividend paying stocks and your reinvesting those dividends and its some play money.

Just my thoughts
John

I'm going to agree with John on this. If you're playing with the GoPro money, then maybe you should be concerned. If you're investing in the company, don't sweat it and maybe consider it as a sale on GoPro stock. Go ahead and have the cash in the account waiting to buy if that's what you want to do. Don't wait until the reports come out to transfer the cash. It may just go right back up within a day or two and you'll miss it. Which doesn't matter in the long run but it's one of those small I wish I would've things that could just make you feel a little better.

Are you gambling or investing? When you're "betting" on something (one way or the other), that's gambling. When you're investing - then you're not trying to game the latest tick by tick info. And if the stock you own is DOWN and you're worried about it... then maybe you shouldn't be in that stock.

Nobody can answer your questions. Which is why I advise EVERYONE... know what you own - why you own it - what your goals are. To advise someone what they should do, or what they "think" some stock is going to do is fools advice. Nobody knows how you're doing financially - what someones risk tolerance is - someones mental capacity for handling market swings etc. Only one person can possibly know how they feel and what their guts are doing.

The reason I advise people reading INVESTING 102 to start out with great businesses - great names - things they can monitor themselves and that pay dividends... is so they stand some chance of feeling good about their investments. It takes awhile to gain some confidence investing in a market where you have ZERO control. I advise AGAINST gambling - because this thread is for beginner investors. While they "might" miss out on the next hot stock -- they might also miss out on losing their money. I'd rather see people stay in the market - and get healthy over time. Once they feel comfortable and can afford it - they'll know when it's time to take a gamble on "X".


Personally -- if "I" owned GoPro (GPRO) I'd be a holder. I wouldn't add to my position on weakness nor on any news. There's way too much speculative money in the name. These are not "strong hands".... people are just betting that it's going higher. That's usually when you get your ass handed to you. Just when EVERYONE thinks one way in the market - look out below. Companies like this can report a stellar quarter -- but the quarter isn't "stellar" enough for the market and the stock can drop. Read the posts about "priced for perfection".

Buying stock like FB and Gopro to me is just gambling. I invest in dividend paying stock. Invest in long term growth stock with dividends. which is what this thread is about. if your going to gamble on a few stocks, gamble with money that you can afford to lose some on. Gambling a bit allows me to use some of the winnings if there is some and purchase more investment stock.

example of what transpired in the last 1.5 years with me and FB

My Gambling thought process.
I use facebook, 98% of my friends are on it. the IPO didn't go as well as most thought. they just started advertising on mobile. I'm going to take a chance.

1-15-13 bought 16 shares of FB @ $31.53, cost $514.47 again in my house this is a couple weeks of eating out and keeping the wine-o at home supplied. I'm already pissing money like this away.
3-23-13 bought 12 shares of FB @ $25.92, cost $321.03 this brought my cost average down and I still believed in the stock and that it would turn around and show that it can make money.

On Gopro, my friend is on a reality show and they use suitcases full of these and demolish gopro cameras at a large rate. They are always buying more. Robyn's brother has one mounted on his mountain bike. He convinced me to buy one for my bike. I'll use it in my Camaro on track days also. I see a ton of people have them. I also been watching the crazy videos on facebook that users submit. I decided to gamble again and get in early but slowly.
7-1-14 bought 8 shares of GPRO @ $46.4 cost $381.20
7-14-14 bought 10 shares of GPRO at $38.85 cost $398.50

I gamble with small chunks of money. If I lose half my money its like me going on a trip to Vegas and gambling and losing $100 a day for a few days.

I have been watching my FB for a month or so going on a roller coaster ride so I decide to take some of Greg's advice and sell some when the pig was fat.
On 8-7-14 sold FB 15 shares @ $73.37 nice little profit.
ON 9-10-14 sold FB 13 shares @ $77.67 nice little profit.

Still holding onto my Gopro, I feel it will go back to its high soon.

The market stared to correct a bit past couple of weeks and gave me a buying opportunity so I used the money and profits from my Facebook and bought and added to my investing 102 type stuff.

10-10-14 bought 20 shares of BPT @ $82 which I already owned at a higher price point.
10-14-14 bought 10 shares of BPT @ $77.5 allowed me to bring my cost average down on my already existing shares.

This is how I'm starting to build my small fortune. I don't have large sums of money like GW but its a start, and I know I'm probably not going to hit onto mother load of money. However its a lot better than letting it sit in a savings account at .1%

Good stuff Bob!


It's NEVER about how much or how little money people have -- it's about earning and multiplying what you do have so that LATER you'll have SOME rather than NONE.

Baby steps.... Learning... understanding the market... WINNING.

Money is all "relative". Large investments also LOSE large on big market swings. So it's not all just fun and games! What I'm trying to imply here is that how a guy feels about losing is as important and how he feels about making money. Because as you have success -- and that pot grows -- so do the swings! This is why I encourage people to look at PERCENTAGES rather than dollars. Percentages are much more relational!

If a guy invests $500 and it doubles to $1000 --- that's a 100% profit!! How do you handle that? Do you skim some of the fat and reinvest in something else? Do you let it all ride and hope it doubles again? Do you look at that and think that over time it might be 10 times that? Or do you freak out and sell it all? Are you checking the market every 15 seconds... or do you look at your account once every quarter...


These are all thoughts that people go thru.... and it's what each individual needs to learn about themselves. It makes little difference to ANYONE if it's 50 bucks or 50 thousand bucks... The feelings and thoughts will be there.

I understand everyone's point of view on this.

One thing though is that you all assumed I wanted to buy GPRO and all. Maybe I do maybe I don't. My question was, could that article come out a perfect time to allow for a stock to go down in order to allow buyers to jump ship before their Q3 earning revealed?

What do you guys look for in 401k mutual funds?

My new employer has a pretty good number of funds we can select. My old job only had target date funds at decade intervals.

I looked at their charts, expense ratio, trailing returns and the percentages as far as stock/bonds/cash

Anything else I missed?

I selected 6 at 15% and 1 at 10%

they have different categories, like growth, income, bonds, growth/income, aggressive growth

I picked 3 out of the growth, and 4 out of aggressive growth

quite a few of the funds dont have a ticker, so I really didnt know how to research them

Given your age -- Growth, Growth and Income, and Aggressive growth are good choices.


Now you begin to see why I'm not a fan of "mutual funds" or company IRA's.... Wouldn't you sleep better if you actually KNEW what you were invested in?? Rhetorical question so don't respond. Not to mention there are all manor of fees and expenses that support just about everyone on the planet except you! UGH! I truly hate them -- but they're still far better than doing nothing... and there are tax advantages etc. so just roll with it.

Given that index funds have been shown to outperform actively managed funds I would have been tempted to stick with simple index funds. After that I would have gone with Vanguard funds if they are available. Their fees and expenses tend to be the lowest in my experience. I would not put any money into anything I can't research or track.

Don

Given this information - which we all know is true.... all I have to say to those folks is --- SUCKS TO BE YOU!!

Retirement SHOULD BE a happy place... when you get to play golf at all the places you wanted to but were busy working... or you finally get to build that car you really wanted but never had the time. Working part time at McDonalds or WalMart to make ends meet would not be a future that would be very satisfying IMHO.



http://natmonitor.com/2014/10/24/typ...-survey-finds/

Everyone should pull their money out of the market TODAY! Why? Because I just opened and fully funded my wife and Is Roth IRAs. This means the market will inevitably plummet today. Blame this thread and all the contributors to it(esp Greg Weld):sarcasm_smiley:

[B]Honestly, Thanks for everyone who has posted on this thread(esp Greg) and made investing easier to understand![/B

Jarrod

Thanks for the info, yea the funds that we can chose from have pretty high expense ratios compared to my old company (0.8-1% vs 1.3-1.8%), not sure why the difference.

I was able to see the top holdings in each fund, but I guess they didnt want to show the bottom, hahaha

I was just calculating, and at my old job I had a 48% return on my 401k contributions, which are now helping me in my personal IRA, :thankyou:

How can I tell if its an Index fund versus managed funds?

I know some of the ones I looked at had the managers listed, but didnt see any that did not.

I can list the ones that do have tickers if necessary.

As far as the bolded part, I had the exact same feeling

I SHORTED the S&P and the NASDAQ on your first post - knowing a newbie was about to invest. The short worked out fabulously so I thank you! LOL




Kidding of course. I never go short anything. Well... I AM short... but that's a physical trait.

Today is just another shining example of why I just can't get behind the high flying IPO's that have come to market lately. Maybe we LOVE their products -- Maybe they have really great businesses... but the IPO's valued them so richly... that they are priced for perfection and beyond. We need to learn to separate the STOCK from the COMPANY some times.


GoPro (GPRO) doubled a guys money since the IPO. Stunning! I like to make about 10% a year on my money --- and am perfectly happy with 5% cash flow from it. So looking at 100% return in a matter of weeks is far better than good! AS LONG AS YOU BOUGHT IT SOMEWHERE LOWER -- as in FAR LOWER -- than where it went... And that's the issue for me. Sure - if you bought at IPO prices... you caught a double. But if you were buying on the way up - then you most likely do not have a double. Maybe you have 10 or 15% which is far more likely... and then you wake up one morning and BAM!! The stock is DOWN and down hard in one day...

Personally --- I can't stomach that... it churns my guts (used to when I invested in this kind of stuff). It's like walking on pins and needles... euphoria on the big up days --- and suicidal when it all gets washed away in minutes!

Amazon -- Down today BIG. GoPro down today BIG... Netflix down the other day HUGE...

I prefer to invest... and go play... get checks regularly in the mail... and have restful sleep.

Just saying. Not saying people shouldn't invest in this stuff.... if you're young - have great incomes - have money to spare... have your investments totally squared away. Then by all means you SHOULD BE investing in these things. Just make sure you meet the above criteria - or gamble at your own risk.

Generally index funds have the index in their name. Any Vanguard funds on your list of available funds? What company manages your 401k? If the fund lists a manager then it is likely actively managed.

Don

the 401k is through Baird

We dont have any Vanguards

we have a few Franklin funds, a couple Fidelity funds, Hartford, American Century, Blackrock, Prudential, alot of SSgAs

the only ones that have Index names is SSgA S&P 500 Security lending series, a couple other SSgAs have the Index in their names, but I couldnt find info on those

Sounds like you did the best you could with the information available. My wife's 401k is completely blind. She just puts in her money and hopes for the best. Drives me crazy....

Don

Glad to hear, yea while it sucks that we dont have more options it is nice that they offer a pretty good match, so I'll take that free money thank ya very much, haha

Did you research those SSGA funds here:

http://www.ssgafunds.com/

Don

I tried, but I didnt find ours on there

Ours say: Class J, IX or VIII

This is the part that just kills me on this company funds... they obscure... and add fees... and all manor of stuff that just makes investing harder and harder for the uninformed.

I agree that matching (free) money is a good thing --- but if you kick in 6% and they kick in 3% -- but then hit you with 1% annual management fees etc... AND you don't get growth and or income... then you can be putting money into a black hole. Sometimes the "match" just isn't worth it when you do the math.

People forget that they can open up IRA's and ROTH IRA's etc outside of their work plan... and then control and or understand what their hard earned money is going in to. Frankly -- I'd rather MAKE 30% than I would get a 3% match. But then again - that is putting a burden on the investor and the average guy/gal just isn't up to the task.

There are income limits beyond which you cannot contribute. For those people 401k plans are the only option as far as I understand it. Married couples quite often exceed those limits.

Don

All true and I agree Don -- but that wasn't my point. The point is that people should at the very least - look into alternatives.

Personally --- I've NEVER been allowed to open these types of accounts due to their limits... I still looked into them.

I fully agree. I research this stuff extensively in large part due to what I've learned from you in this thread. Thanks!

Don

From what I understood in their 401k presentation is our company takes care of all the fees while I am with the company and if I leave then I am responsible for those fees from the point of my termination on.

My company matches 100% up to 4% and 50% above 4% to 6%

so its not bad, and I see what you mean about trying to make it seem like magic, by the way, the guy that does this is that fast talking used car salesman guy who wanted me to roll over my old 401k to my new companies 401k or an IRA with them

Anyways, I picked the funds that had the best returns over the past few years, had the top 10 companies that I knew, and the lowest fees.

So hopefully in the end I will come out with much more than matching percentage that the company gives

You do the best you can do with what you have to work with. Just looking into your holdings is more than most folks do.

Because it's CURRENT and CONTINUING... let's look at an EXAMPLE of a stock vs the stock price.

GoPro (GPRO) came out with an IPO with much hype (by TV talking heads) and fanfare! It has THE NAME - and all cameras that are of the type will forever be called GoPro's regardless of their actual brand.

WE - as sports people - know the name and brand and quality. So accordingly this is all of great interest for us.

Here's where we can learn from the IPO market -- using GPRO solely as an example.

When the market is "hot" and there's too much money chasing too little stock GROWTH... people get all manic (ma ny ick) chasing STOCKS. The latest greatest shiniest new toy is the hot money. When there's more buyers than sellers - the stock price climbs. Many times it climbs for no other reason than it's climbing!! This is where the old adage comes in - if you were a fortunate buyer of the issue - early! Pigs get fat - hogs get slaughtered.

So here's what happens -- some NEWER hot IPO comes out and the money flows out of the hot stock from last week into the new hot stock this week... OR people that bought at the TOP -- begin to see losses and then start to bail. What happens when there's more sellers than there are buyers??? Prices FALL.

LET'S SEPARATE your beliefs that a product or company is the next killer deal -- and begin to understand THE MARKET. The two things are completely independent of each other!

The tricky part for EVERYONE is to be able to INVEST in good companies with a good FUTURE long term -- versus getting caught up in the "hot investment". Some of these issues (IPO's) take flight and never look back. Some of them take flight and then once they leave the nest - find themselves falling to the ground. Some of them just quietly go away. The problem for US as investors is that we just don't know which one is going to be the real deal.

Here's what I've learned to do. I wait. I wait until the dust settles from the big coming out party. I investigate the underlying business.... I don't listen to the talking heads -- in fact -- the more they talk -- the farther I run. That's the first sign that you're in the hype mode! So I wait for cooler heads to come out and talk -- and when they also begin to dissect the DOWNSIDE of the stock but then say they're still buyers.... that's when I begin to take notice. But if the talking heads including guests are all saying "well... it could grow into the stock price" but right now it's a little "rich". PASS! If you still like the story and the company -- you have time to get some shares at far better prices!

I recently bought ALIBABA (BABA). I actually now have a gain in it. But the difference is this. Every talking head has said that the growth going forward should be (SHOULD BE) just huge... and that while it "seems expensive" it's not. Now - if you take GoPro - the talk is dying or dead... it's not even mentioned anymore -- and all have said "it will have to grow into the price". HUGE difference!

BTW -- I bought a whopping 500 shares of BABA. I only bought this little teeny tiny bit and will buy no more. Compare that amount next to my normal holdings of 20,000 to 40,000 shares.

Now -- I hesitate to post stuff like this -- because what I never want on here is for people to do what I'm doing. That's NEVER the point of these posts. What I'm trying to do is to use examples for what they are. Examples. Ways to think. What to watch out for. GoPro might grow into it's share price - BABA might be a huge flop in the US.... IT'S GAMBLING. LEARN HOW TO GAMBLE AND WHAT THE BET IS before you just get caught up in the hype. Open your eyes and ears and learn what to look for... This is a MARKET.. and markets can pick you apart if you're the rookie on a pro playing field.

Proud to say I just sealed the envelope and put the stamp on my son's custodial account application for Schwab. He has 1600 bucks to start with. Its been in a CD up until this point. Now we wait. Hes excited, I'm excited, sort of like the blind leading the blind here! I'll be rereading this thread again over the next week until the funds hit his account. Hes 11 so he is getting started 20 years before his old man did.

Thanks for the motivation!

Buy him $500 worth of three different stocks... Toss one in like FaceBook -- or Alibaba -- something like that. He's young and has to take a little risk on at his age.

Here's another one of those hot IPO's that are going to blow up right before your very eyes.... Twitter (TWTR). I actually had bought some of these shares early on -- they ran up FAST - and I cut and ran and pocketed a nice profit. Here's why I did that rather than INVEST in it. I found the service very helpful during the big Sun Valley fires last year... but after the fires were out... I couldn't find anything that was of interest to me -- and I certainly don't do anything that's tweetable! LOL

So here's where the Peter Lynch style of investing I've mentioned before comes in to play for INVESTING. I'm pretty damn comfortable knowing I'm mister Joe Average.... and If I stop eating at McDonalds -- and I can't find a reason to Tweet... then maybe others are feeling the same way. Guess what... Twitter reported less usage. SEE!! My guts and my head were telling me early on to listen to what I was thinking and I was thinking this is nothing but kind of a Fad that really doesn't serve a big purpose for me. Dumped the stock. Made some money.

My point isn't that I'm smart - I'm lucky as hell and I know it... my point is that you need to continue to be aware of your own senses... How you feel about a store - a product - the advertising - whatever! Invest in stuff you feel good about using... and if you stop using something and own the company.. DUDE! Time to sell!


For those that don't recognize the Peter Lynch reference -- he was the head of Magellan and grew that into the largest Mutual Fund in existence at the time... He's written many books on investing and you should all read them. One of his early "themes" was to invest in stuff where he was a shopper or was familiar with the products etc. I preach that method here because it works -- and it's easy to pay attention to your own habits and activities. The problem becomes on the sell side --- when you don't listen to yourself and recognize when you're no longer happy with "X". Say if you switched to shopping at Lowe's when you own stock in Home Depot etc. Or you're going to Chipotle and not going to McDonalds -- or you quit drinking Starbucks... or Budweiser...

Greg where do you read most of your information? I usually look at the news ticker next to the stock on google, but sometimes it takes you to these sites that make you question how true to their word they are.

I pay for a lot of the information I read... and I have multiple investment accounts at various institutions. As such - I have direct contact with people at those institutions. So the answer is -- I have a bunch of different ways I get
info.

Here's something that I get to do that most wouldn't have available to them. Let's say I'm having lunch with one "banker"... and he's telling me about blah blah blah. I shake my head and listen etc. But when I get in the car - I'm on the phone to my other guy... and I'll say "Hey... I was thinking about blah blah blah...." And I'll get another perspective.

The problem with "news" is that it's just that. News. It can be very factual - and it could leave out some pertinent facts. Example. The news headline reads "Obama raises tax rate on dividends to 39.6%"..... Catchy - factual.. but missing some serious details... like the fact that you'd have to have 400+ grand in adjusted income in order for that to take affect. So I never trust one source. Keep digging and see if there's something more you should know. The initial information should only whet your appetite.

By the way --- I have little or no life.... and I've been doing this stuff for 30 years... "Investing" funds everything else I do in life - so it's job one.

So here's a couple more of those "priced for perfection" stocks -- which in my opinion has little to do with the actual performance of a growth company...


Yelp! Reports it has 256% growth from the previous quarter -- the stock get hammered! Down 12% in 5 days...

FaceBook -- Huge growth in almost every metric - but not good enough - BAM! Drops like a rock after hours - it's down 10%

What do we learn from this kind of action?? Seriously? What's the take away... the companies have HUGE growth -- they're making money...

You learn that the STOCK PRICE isn't always connected to the actual facts.. and when that price is connected to huge expectations... even if the company does really really well.... YOU GET HAMMERED in the price.

Are these stocks good to buy on the dips? If I was a young man looking for some long term growth -- I'd be a buyer of FaceBook on the pull back. Not much but I'd dip a toe in. THEN WAIT! Wait for them to report another quarter... Never go jumping into the deep end without knowing the depth of the pool! Check it out first...

Why do they have pre market and after hours buying and selling?
Doesn't seem fair that they allow this. it should be open or closed.

It's fair NOW -- didn't used to be fair -- Used to only be open for high net worth guys and pros... now anyone with a brokerage account can trade pre-market or after hours.

There's many RISKS to trading like this. Most of it is done only with limit orders... and since you can't get a quote - you're basically trading blindly -- and in a very small pond. Meaning not many people around selling or buying. The volumes traded like this are generally very small.

YOU could go out and research why they allow it on the internet. :>)

Nah! easier to ask you, its not like your busy or anything.