It's like buying carbon fiber for a tank. Cool site and some killer stuff!

Dude..........you're dating yourself now, diapers have had 'velcro' tabs for how long now? Which is a good thing cuz Davey would bleed out before he got the 'safety' pins in. :lol:

No, Sieg... you're dating Weld. He's been courting you on these weekend getaways now for awhile.... just say yes already, will ya?!

Well it's a........Nope......I ain't gonna say it. :angel:

At our last autox event last Sunday, a long time autocrosser comes up and we start talking about my car. "Man that thing really looks good out there on the course, what springs are you running?" So I tell him and he looks at me with disbelieve and says "Just imagine how it would run like if you put stiffer front and rear springs in it, man it would really fly"...

The conversation ended pretty quickly after that. :D

Even after seeing in person how a Ron Sauce setup can make a big car handle an autox, they still can't admit that setup works better than the old go-cart stiff no travel setups that they've used forever.

There are others out there though, that have ridden in the car pre and post Ron Sauce and they listen intently when I'm answering their questions about the car...and I can see the wheels turning in their head as I'm talking. :rules:

We haven't met have we..... LOL


In my view of the world there are two kinds of car guys. Greasers and waxers. I'm a greaser. Bugs are a badge of honor. The most "waxing" I do on any of my cars is quick detailer spray... and that's only because I can't stand dirt. Has NOTHING to do with shine. Actually - after the crew at Brizio watched me clean up the '33 -- they asked me not to even do that.

The Little Yellow Lemon has a very nice show quality paint job on it. All I have to do is dust it once in awhile.

I think the first thing to do is to acknowledge that we as "hot rodders" and part time "wannabe racers" - is that we know NOTHING about suspension or brakes.

Installing some parts on a car doesn't make us "knowledgeable". Buying parts off a shelf or from a catalog doesn't make us "knowledgeable". Copying what someone else did, or has done, doesn't make us "knowledgeable". RON SUTTON?? He has real actual knowledge! When we get all done... I'd like to be able to comprehend 10% of what he knows. The beauty of working with him is that he not only can find and fix what's wrong - or make what's right - better... he is willing to discuss what he's doing, and why, so that you'll learn from it.

I will tell you what "I" have learned so far. That all of these parts we buy -- they all have interactions with all the other parts and the car as a whole! And it's more about having a plan - and doing some mental work - and having a real understanding of all the inter-related actions that makes the most difference. Just buying the most expensive triple adjustable shocks might make you feel better mentally - but if it's the wrong one or set up wrong... you just wasted your money. Kind of like investing but picking the wrong companies... That's not investing - that's just throwing money around so you can say you're "invested". If the investments don't work for you what's the point?!?! LOL

I'm smart enough (barely) to realize that Ron's depth of knowledge in this field is akin to my knowledge in the investing world. The small amount that I share in the Investing 102 thread only scratches the surface. Ron shares a percentage of his knowledge via posts... but there's no way you're going to be able to read that and go straight to the winners circle. What that insight should do for people is to show them how little they know and how much there is to be gained by engaging a pro like Ron. He's the best part I've ever bought.

To me - it's like discussing a motor build with a guy that just saw the biggest lift and most duration on a cam and THAT'S the one for him!! What an idiot. He doesn't realize that he just bled off all the compression in his 9:1 motor.... not to mention the spring bind and on and on.

Funny how many guys will spend 35 grand on a huge HP motor and then just buy a bunch of parts for their suspension... toss 'em on and think that's the hot ticket. It's kinda like putting expensive paint on an unblocked body - you just wind up with a crappy paint job.

Gregs track car
 

Greg,
I understand what a person can learn from Ron but I really think the
hard part is being a good enough driver to really understand that
it is working. I drove my firebird for almost three years straight with
ok suspension, bad ball joints etc.. I adjusted to what the car could do
Later we fixed some things, change some spring rates and it was much
better...trust me I won a lot of events with the car autocrossing but
really did not change much at first. Now I have coil overs (in front) double
adjustable shocks, new springs and it is better yet. I am making some more changes and need time
in the car but not sure I am smart enough to say it is finally handling
the best.. I guess if you start out right with someone like Ron's setup
and then start to tweak it...

My Can Am buddy hired an expert for a few races... we changed
some settings one way then went the other way and searched for
what is the best.. car time for that car is very limited... I used to
run against guys that ran 46 weekends a year.. now that is seat
time.. I always told my buddies when you and the car become one
then you know you are fast...having two completely different
cars does not help...

I guess changing things is what we need to do even if we think
it is good because it can always be better

Years ago in ESP "my old scca class" a guy from Socal came up for a
National event.. I was just starting and had not qualified for the event.
His car had 33 spring changes that year.. it was a pro solo
so they qualify and he was #1... end of the day before the
main event the next day he is under the car changing the rear sway bar
Car was the fastest but not good enough for him... driver knew...
most of us would have said we are good to go

I am hoping to learn how to tune my suspension and from what
I am thinking changing it back and forth is the only way to find out??

Panteracer

I travel TWO days to an event - TWO days back home.... I have two days of driving and I might get 4 or 5 20 minutes sessions in on a Saturday... 3 maybe 4 on a Sunday. An event WEEKEND is a WEEK for me.... By the time I load all the stuff up - shop for groceries - water up and fuel up and get everything squared away and unpacked on the return --- it's pushing 8 days.... The reward is a few minutes behind the wheel.

Sorry -- THE LAST THING I want to do is be under the f'n car in between sessions. Now -- I maybe run 3 or maybe 4 events per year. Life is short - I don't have the time in the seat to be able to figure out all the nuances of what the car is doing --- and then want to go back to the pits to wrench of stuff. I could spend years doing this and gain 10% of Ron's knowledge and a considerable amount of FRUSTRATION in between.

THAT IS WHY I HIRED RON SUTTON.... so that we can get the car(s) dialed in quickly and efficiently and then just be able to consistently have a good solid session time after time. I know exactly what the car is going to drive like - I know exactly what the tire pressures should be set to. And I go out and have a blast.

We're not RACING... these are track days. They're FUN days... Nobody is keeping score except Gaetano.

My goal for the cars and thus the addition of Ron Sutton is to make the cars more predictable and fun. With that Ron Sauce - they've become faster... but that's not my goal that's just a side benefit.

I didn't even know the Mustang handled poorly and would have kept driving it just the way it was... like you say - I'd adjust to the car. It just wasn't that much fun. Now it is. Now I can't wait to get behind the wheel. That was my only goal. So far it's been met and exceeded.

That's one way to do it Bob, and the way most will do it. I think the more Ron is involved on the hobby side of things and the more people he helps, it may become clear that hiring a professional is another tool in the toolbox.

Talk to the guys that have run some Optima events and had one of the more experienced drivers ride with them, I guarantee they learned something about getting the car to work better. It's no different.

Did Greg need to hire Ron? Uh ya, Charlie sold him a beater that needed to be gone through. Now he has a car that all he needs to do is fuel it, check the air pressure than go out and run it for 15-20 minutes and replace the motor!:lmao:

DBASHER