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- - Save GM (https://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17513)

The big three might as well be owned by China. Most of the industry is already produced in China. In the general repair business 90% of all the replacement parts I have access to are from China. Anyone who went to SEMA go over to the APEX show? Better be able to speak Chinese to talk to those vendors. Almost all the "American" parts producers are simply re boxing items made in the R.O.C. I believe even most of the bigger companies selling go fast parts are sourced from China. Isn't Pro-Form stuff all made there? Take a walk through Wall-Mart or Target and look for a "Made in the U.S.A." tag. You will probably be able to count the products on one hand. Every year we produce less and less in this country leaving only investment and executive jobs and then service industry. That wonderful widening gap between the haves and have nots. Kinda like the Feudal system.

A few thoughts on this...

1. I believe that this is a perfect opportunity for the US Government to squeeze the Unions out of the Big Three. "We'll consider the loans only if you play ball with us." Usually this means Greasy assed politicians want the most bang for the buck out of the deal AND ONLY if it benefits them any way the mop flops. Bankruptcy if the Unions are made a smaller player? So be it.

2. The Golden Rule. He who has the Gold gets to make the rules. Guess who has the Gold here.

3. I have to say, in my opinion, the Big Three need to be saved. The tremendous amout of companies that are 'Lean To" companies on the big three are just about uncountable. If 90% of the parts are made overseas, the remaining ten percent is critical here. Dealerships closing. Parts stores, Body Shops, fix it car repair shops all going under.

4. Jeff Trush said one time : This is how the Media reports the Big Three (He was specifically speaking of GM at the time.)

Assume that a house is on fire. There are five people in the house.Toyota runs to the door and grabs the closest person near the door.

GM runs all through the house and rescues three people, at great peril to themselves.

The headlines the next day reads:

Toyota saves One, GM allows one to die.

A brilliant analogy of how the US automakers have been spit on by the Media.

5. There has to be someone somewhere that lost his/her job over the question asked by the Senator about who flew there Commercial. These guys are 'schooled" about the vast array of potential questions that could be asked. Someone missed that one in a big way. I will confess to a "Tip of the Hat" to the dude that asked that one. Tou'chet.(Pronounced Two shay)

6. Last, but certainly not least, it never looks good to step out of your Lear Jet with a Tin Cup in your hand.

Make the cars that sell, cut the excess fat, better efficiency, and become even stronger than before. All of us would be required to do that. Can't ask for money with no plan of attack, that is ridiculous. I think GM is buiding the best cars they ever have right now.

I am the biggest GM homer there is and have a personal friend here that works for them, so I hope it works out.

The problem that I see right off the bat is that they (the big 3) have to show a plan to a group of people who have even less of an idea what a good plan is than the people who made the plan in the first place. that is one circular arguement right there...

I guess the thing that bothers me is... what qualifies the senate committee to determine if "the plan" has merit? For the most part, it seems to me that their exposure to the auto industry comes from comparing the relative merits of a Lincoln vs. a Cadillac when picking out a limo for the year...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart Adams (Post 179311)

Same Here. Most of my dad's Brothers worked for GM. I am a GM man all the way. I am pulling for them and the other "Biggies" Ford and Chrysler.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trapin (Post 179213)

Well of course you won't. You're going to stick with the popular perception because THATS the popular thing to do.

Why worry if the Big Three go under?

If won't effect you. Right?

Dude. Please don't try to tell me I follow others and don't think on my own. You don't know me. I do my research and make my own decisions, thank you.

I never said I am not worried in general and that I don't care what happens to people.

I have always loved GM (owned Nova, Chevelle, 2 Camaros, Corvette) but I just know we have bigger problems for our country right now than the automakers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 179386)

Fair enough. I am sorry I put words in your mouth. But you have to understand that when I read comments like, "I don't care how the German's get it done" and "I will probably never own a GM vehicle ever again" it just makes me shake my head and I wonder what we could have done so wrong to elicit such apathy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trapin (Post 179391)

Thanks. I am sure this is not easy to watch as a GM employee.

But seriously, you are always going to win some new customers with your new product line and lose some old customers. It's just the way it goes.

And for me, it's not what GM did wrong. It's the fact that I moved up the income scale in recent years and have been able to try out some German cars as daily drivers, and I happen to like them. They make much better daily drivers IMO compared to the GM cars I would be interested (Z06?).

I also just like variety and change my mind too often on cars. :yes:

After spending a lot of time reading and digesting the posts and the information available concerning the auto industry, I have taken the time to compose a post. My thoughts on the industry are based completely on the fact that I own an industrial distribution/engineering firm. In other words, I make my living as well as the 5 people I employee working with manufacturers.

It is no secret that I have complete disdain for the Japanese automobile industry for several reasons. First and foremost, they absolutely will not buy any products that are not manufactured in Japan. Forget about it. If you have the opportunity to walk thru a plant you will see what I mean, Sony computers, Panasonic flat screens in the conference room, and Hitachi tools on the floor. Etc. They use us for labor plain and simple. Honda has been in the news a lot here lately, talking about what a great company they are and they are not laying anyone off during this downturn. The real story is that 30% of the workforce at the Honda plant in Marysville, Ohio is brought in through temp services! So of course they have not let anyone go, but they sure as hell have kicked the temps to the curb! (and with temps, no health care or retirement) Honda fails to mention that they quietly closed the Goldwing plant here, because it could no longer compete with HD.

The legacy costs are crippling the big 3.

There is a lot of discussion about “build cars that we want” what do you want? You guys realize that GM up until last year sold more CARS than ANYONE. If you guys want them to build cars YOU would buy, what should they build because the rest of the country IS buying their cars. If you factor in truck sales, GM kicks Toyota’s ass by about 1.1 million units last year. (http://www.motorintelligence.com/m_frameset.html)

Now Ford and Chrysler, yeah you guys got spanked. Compare that to BMW, with 215,836 units. And the question was asked why can’t GM build a car like the 3 series for that kind of money? There is your answer, because they are boutique manufacturer.

About BMW and Benz, Lexus falls into this category as well. Anybody that has owned one of these vehicles knows about service. Can you imagine the media smear job if a new Cadillac required service calls that would total $1500-$2000 each time it went in? A buddy of mine has the new big Lexus and was complaining about his $180 oil change! My points is, the German cars, while nice and have quality details and safety features, they are expensive to maintain. I am guilty of having owned a Porsche 911. It had electrical gremlins and the service manager said to me as I was complaining of the cost of service, and the number if times I had it worked on ‘you have to pay to play!’

I have a friend that works at a shop that specializes in Italian stuff, Ferrari’s Lambos’ etc. He tells me stories all the time about Murcielago/Diablo’s having the clutches replaced with 7,000 miles! Or how about F430’s requiring top end work with 20,000 miles on them! And the ZR1 comes with a 100,000 mile warranty. I am not comparing ZR1’s with Lambos and Ferraris, in terms of styling or exclusivity but wholly smoke, 200 mph and world beater horsepower for 100k. All that with a warranty!

Should they be bailed out? absolutely, manufacturing jobs have a ripple effect, for every manufacturing job, it supports 4 other jobs.

The auto industry is in a strange mess. If the big 3 could shed the union contracts and the government would work an arrangement out from a trade agreement stand point (we currently export ZERO cars to Korea (another rant for another time) and less than 10K a year to Japan) the big wigs need to be removed and replaced with new management.

Whatever the answer is, short term they need the money, give it to them.

Darren

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluid Power (Post 179526)

After spending a lot of time reading and digesting the posts and the information available concerning the auto industry, I have taken the time to compose a post. My thoughts on the industry are based completely on the fact that I own an industrial distribution/engineering firm. In other words, I make my living as well as the 5 people I employee working with manufacturers.

It is no secret that I have complete disdain for the Japanese automobile industry for several reasons. First and foremost, they absolutely will not buy any products that are not manufactured in Japan. Forget about it. If you have the opportunity to walk thru a plant you will see what I mean, Sony computers, Panasonic flat screens in the conference room, and Hitachi tools on the floor. Etc. They use us for labor plan and simple. Honda has been in the news a lot here lately, talking about what a great company they are and they are not laying anyone off during this downturn. The real story is that 30% of the workforce at the Honda plant in Marysville, Ohio is brought in through temp services! So of course they have not let anyone go, but they sure as hell have kicked the temps to the curb! (and with temps, no health care or retirement) Honda fails to mention that they quietly closed the Goldwing plant here, because it could no longer compete with HD.

The legacy costs are crippling the big 3.

There is a lot of discussion about “build cars that we want” what do you want? You guys realize that GM up until last year sold more CARS than ANYONE. If you guys want them to build cars YOU would buy, what the hell should they build because the rest of the country IS buying their cars. If you factor in truck sales, GM kicks Toyota’s ass by about 1.1 million units last year. (http://www.motorintelligence.com/m_frameset.html)

Now Ford and Chrysler, yeah you guys got spanked. Compare that to BMW, with 215,836 units. And the question was asked why can’t GM build a car like the 3 series for that kind of money? There is your answer, because they are boutique manufacturer.

About BMW and Benz, hell Lexus falls into this category as well. Anybody that has owned one of these vehicles knows about service. Can you imagine the media smear job if a new Cadillac required service calls that would total $1500-$2000 each time it went in? A buddy of mine has the new big Lexus and was complaining about his $180 oil change! My points is, the German cars, while nice and have quality details and safety features, they are expensive to maintain. I am guilty of having owned a Porsche 911. It had electrical gremlins and the service manager said to me as I was complaining of the cost of service, and the number if times I had it worked on ‘you have to pay to play!’

I have a friend that works at a shop that specializes in Italian stuff, Ferrari’s Lambos’ etc. He tells me stories all the time about Murcielago/Diablo’s having the clutches replaced with 7,000 miles! Or how about F430’s requiring top end work with 20,000 miles on them! And the ZR1 comes with a 100,000 mile warranty. I am not comparing ZR1’s with Lambos and Ferraris, in terms of styling or exclusivity but wholly smoke, 200 mph and world beater horsepower for 100k. All that with a warranty!

Should they be bailed out? absolutely, manufacturing jobs have a ripple effect, for every manufacturing job, it is supports 4 other jobs.

The auto industry is in a strange mess. If the big 3 could shed the union contracts and the government would work an arrangement out from a trade agreement stand point (we currently export ZERO cars to Korea (another rant for another time) and less than 10K a year to Japan) the big wigs need to be removed and replaced with new management.

Whatever the answer is, short term they need the money, give it to them.

Darren

So the answer is "give it to them"??? So just give them the cash and HOPE things work out?