Steve, does your post include the Unisteer Rack and Pinion? Maval gear makes that unit, and it is a bolt on.

Jeff

I seriously hope you are not taking a crack at Tyler now.

Forget the performance aspects of the new sub. The engineering alone impresses me. Anybody can weld a bunch of tubing together and make a subframe work given the required skills and knowledge which is exactly what I am doing with help from the proper people. DSE's sub an is taking an OE manufacturing appoach to the aftermarket world and that shows incredible commitent to their products. I also beleive ATS has done the same thing with their spindles.

Mike

Couldnt have said that better myself.

One has to know how to interpret, not only the raw data, but also interpret the effects which those variables place on the overall system. Little things like migration and scrub have a lot to do with the big picture in more ways than known to most.

Without data, all you have is a placebo.
:lateral:

well i dont know anything about the DSE subframe other than it looks good and it comes from DSE ..and even with specs and all that crap I still dont know wtf that means lol ..but just like everything else a name brand most of the times it speaks for it self ....just like sony or alpine or hre or anyother over priced brand lol the only decision left is either have a dse subframe and go to a car show or have a chris alston subframe and find a place to hide at the car show ...i think last time i checked their subframes are based on mustang II parts including their spindles

Shane,
The overlayed bumpsteer graph is telling. You gotta do a graph that overlays the camber curve using all stock parts against the camber curve for GW/ATS combo. Then people will really see the benefits of the swap.

In the end, there is room for everyone. A stock clip with upgraded parts improves handling but has some limitations as well.
UPGRADED STOCK CLIP:
-Excellent Handling
-More Affordable Alternative (about $3K if you go to town, but keep coil springs and separate shocks)
Stock Clip Limitations:
-40 year old stamp & weld, rear steer clip.
-No place to properly mount a rack so you're stuck with a pitman arm, idler arm, and center link, etc.
-More limited wheel & tire sizes
-Coil over conversion (unnecessary in my opinion) brings price much closer to DSE.

DSE CLIP
-Excellent Handling
-Brand new frame (Study the stamped crossmember and reinforced UCA mounts/spring buckets to fully appreciate the benefits of the bare frame.
-Properly Rack & Pinion steering
-Room for big tires without sacrificing steering angle.
-Matched shocks and springs
DSE Clip Limitations:
-Twice the price of an upgraded stock clip. More if you stick with stock A-arms (but stock sux).

So, Steevo, that's 2 positive, and 4 minuses for the stock clip. And it's 5 positive, and 1 minus for the DSE setup? In your professional, and influential "opinion?" :rolleyes:

???
M

Hi
 

Hi, I am just a lurker and am only going to post this, and go back to my cave.

What I see is a bunch of grown men arguing over nothing. I swear from reading these boards, and especially this one, is how everyone loves to go back and forth over parts, which one is better, which one costs more, which one looks better, what brand is the best, etc.....

Does anyone drive their car anymore these days????? If people spent more time putting miles on their car then arguing over what parts are the best, then arguments like these woudln't even come up. Its ALL just bragging rights anyways or your building your car for the wow appeal. I mean how many people here would actually even have the skills to pilot their car fast enough and smooth enough too really take advantage of the difference? Just go drive your car and let the guys with more money than brains buy what they want.

Everyone wants the best stuff on paper. Gotta have custom front sub, 3 link rear, twin turbo, baer brakes, 3 piece wheels, recaro seats, etc.... but 1 out of maybe 300 actually has the skills or time, or balls to take the car to its potential. All about bragging rights, what makes people sleep better at night, knowing just what great research and parts selection they made.

Everyone knows DSE makes quality stuff, and I doubt this subframe falls short. Is it overpriced? probably not for the effort/development they put into it, but bang for the buck??? I highly doubt it. Lets be honest, no one here really needs any of this stuff, but it is nice to have.

:clap: One post....... and I like this cat already. :clap:

Couldn't agree more, been saying this for ages, they're cars not objects of art & most of these expensive parts being bought is just for bragging rights. No-ones gonna take their cars to the limit to see if there's a difference. A good test would be to have a number of cars for comparison.One fitted with a stock uprated frame & then one from the manufacturers like Wayne Due, DSE, Alston etc etc, but don't tell the drivers which one is which. Run them on the road & see how they compare I bet they wouldn't tell the difference on the street/showground/trailer, which is after all where your cars are gonna live. :rofl: :rofl:

Mark,
Feel free to fill out the list as you see fit. :hail:
/S