When you leveled the pitman arm, was that done at the flat area where the center link attaches or at the arm itself?

I'm pretty much doing the same, learning as I go. It certainly gives you a whole different perspective on all aspects of the hobby.

If you are really thinking about a welder I'd look at the new Miller 211 MIG. I sold 1 large and 1 small MIG and replaced them with the 211. Its an awesome machine that's pretty amazing out of the box. Don't think you can beat it for the $$


Agreed. I keep checking to see what else I can notice on Brian's car. He used the frame because it was for CP. I used the frame mainly because this is my first huge fab project and honestly I don't think I have the skills to build a complete frame that was correct and straight.... Maybe the next build

Thank you

I never planned to give up on the Camaro but I did get another car too. Picked up a 95 Mustang GT with the 5.0 and 5 spd for $1k. It was from the original owner with ~300k miles and the AC still works. Certainly no show car but its a great beater to practice Axing while I get the Camaro back. Last AX I put air in the old tires and added 2 qtr of oil. That was enough to beat out 3 of 5 BMW's on the course. Who knows what will happen with decent tires. Later on I plan to build it up as a NASA CMC car. Wont be as cool as Robs AI car but should be fun none the less.

Weld has seen the beast in person and can attest to how magnificent it is.

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Agreed. Funny how at first I was annoyed to step away from it but now I'm very glad I did. Although its coming time to get a bit more focus on it if I want to make the March deadline without stressing

I did use that part of the arm. It was the only part flat enough and I am assuming the centerlink hole in it is perpendicular. The Pitman needed to be level because the centerlink joint isn't a ball joint, more of a bushed shaft so I needed a closer tolerance to eliminate binding and keep things true.

Awesome score. :thumbsup:

Yes it will. :happy23:

Thanks for that info! So the centerlink needs to stay level at all times throughout the steering travel, correct?

Please keeps the pics coming...definitely appreciate them!

Based on discussions I've had with Sutton, yes but I'm not the expert. Maybe after SEMA he will comment more about this, I know he's pretty busy right now. My understanding is that if the centerlink is changing angles that means your inner tie rod mount is moving. The location of this mount will directly impact your bump steer step as well as ackerman (I'm pretty sure) on the car. I don't have my notes from his class with me to confirm this.

Gerno thx for the info on the welder.Just got in from work so I'll look it up...cheers

Good work, Steve. I know the feeling about stepping back. That's kind of why I've gone dormant on my build. I'm not giving up. I'm just not wanting to burn out. Good luck moving forward and making your March deadline!

A bit more progress has been made over the last week. The LCAs are all welded up with shock mounts added. I also tacked up the sway bar which has been driving me insane. Finally figured out a configuration that has zero binding during suspension compression, zero steering or wheel clearance issues and tucks above the x-member during suspension compression. I'm going to wait to weld it up completely until the frame is fully complete.

Next step is to clearance the frame a bit more for the tie rods during suspension compression and full turn, check the alignment to make sure I didn't screw anything up and then start to fill in all the holes I cut in the frame.

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Small progress but progress non the less. Upper coil over mounts made.

Next step is to clearance the frame for the outer tie rods. After that I'm waiting on the new steering box and u joints to arrive and I'll double check everything including the alignment before I start final welding everything, reboxing the frame and adding additional gussets.

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Your doing a great job!

Started to put the frame back together this weekend. Used a sheet a 10ga and made a press brake using some spare angle iron I had. Pretty happy with the results so far.


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Well aren't you just Mister Fab!


LOL


Looks great Steve!

Thanks Greg.

Long time ago I was told to work smarter, not harder. Many times I forget to follow that guidance but not this weekend. It took a few hours for me to make the brake and its far from a perfect design but overall I think it saved me a lot more time and made for a better overall end result. Now I just need to get the other side tacked up so I can make sure everything clears.

It's looking good, nice job.

Dave is just pissed he is not part of team CMC / AI :stirthepot: :popcorn2:

Looking at the progress you are making on the Camaro and your fab work I have no doubt your CMC car WILL turn out better than AO.

:wow: I gotta agree with these guys.

A little more progress has been made. The frame is clearanced for tie rods, all welded up and back to 1 piece. I also welded in the sway bar mount after moving it up 5/8" and back 1/4" in an effort to gain additional ground clearance with the sway bar arms.

I mocked up the car at ride height and did an alignment to make sure it was at spec before I final welded the UCA mounts. I found they were a bit off. I could have used slugs to get it where I needed but decided to move the mounts a little so I can be at spec with as close to a 0 offset slug as possible. After that was confirmed I welded up the UCA mounts.

Its about ready to pull off the table and mock up in the car again. I still need to add a gusset to the UCA mount and final weld the shock hoops but I want to wait until its in the car first in case there is some sort of interference issue. I also need to mock the engine back up in it before putting it in the car. I will be raising the engine so the exhaust is tucked under the frame. I could remake the headers but think moving the engine is the easiest and won't really impact performance of the car any way I would notice. Plus the bell housing was too low so that will be better too.

I'm hoping to have the frame bolted back up later this week


Oh yea, I also bought a new Sweet 10-1 steering box. Had to clearance the driver side UCA mount for it but it wasn't too hard.

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Mocked up for alignment

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Bare frame all welded up

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Gusset will be a piece of 1/8" flat bar 1" wide and the length of the UCA mount. it will sit on the inside of the UCA mount at basically the same angle as the base I made.

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Exciting stuff !

This is the fun part.

Still a long ways to go though...keep at it !

Keep at it, Steve. You're doing good work. Besides, I want to see what this thing looks like sitting on the ground when done :D

Thanks for posting the update, looks like you've been busy. I can't wait to see it back on the ground again as well.

Dang Steve, brave. Great stuff. What's next? How close u too final assembly?

Nice work Steve .

Very cool Steve.:hail: Maybe I will get a chance to see it in person next week.

So do I. Overall it will like pretty much the same on the outside but at least the engine bay should look nicer...oh yea, and it should handle a bit better too.

Trying to find the time. There's never enough.

Next is to mock it up in the car, cut the floors for clearance make new engine mounts to tuck the pan/exhaust better, rework the rear suspension, build a cage, remake clutch/brake pedals, smooth firewall and clean up the wiring....just a few things left...

Thanks

I guess that depends how many beers are consumed....





Made more progress this weekend. Overall pretty happy but did find a few new issues to think about.

Pulled the frame off the table and tested engine fitment. I wanted to raise the engine slightly to and header and oil plan clearance to make sure nothing would hit anymore.

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Found 1 problem - The passenger side header tube is too close to the rear UCA bolt.

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I could move the engine back but will need to shorten the driveshaft. and may have interference issues elsewhere, need to look into it more. Good news is I'm already planning to redo the firewall and tunnel so this is a possible solution

I was hoping it would be easier to move it forward, unfortunately this caused an issue with clearance to the centerline. This is will not work

Another possible solution is to take 1/2" off the headers at the head flange. Overall should be fairly easy except I've never welded stainless and am concerned if my skills are ready for such a challenge.

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Final option is to sell my current headers and get a set of Ultimate Headers. Obvious problem here is $$$:G-Dub:



Rather than make an impulse decision I wanted to go ahead and get the frame bolted up in the car to see if there were any other issues. Good news here is that other it bolted up. Only minor issue was the rear rails were a bit more spread than they were originally. I used a bar clamp to pull them back together and all seems well based on original alignment holes but I need to measure it for square.

I still need to recess the frame in the floors since I'm removing the body mounts to raise the frame 1/2" as directed by Sutton. Next week I hope to clean the pans with a wire wheel so I can mark and cut the floor sections contacting the frame

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Made it a bit further along in the last we weeks...assuming cutting a car to pieces is progress.

I purchased a set of Ultimate headers long tubes to better clear the UCA mounts. The new headers stick out ~2" vs the old SWs sticking out ~4" from he heads. I thought about modifying the SW headers but figure with the time needed it was smarter to buy new and sell off the old ones.

I was a bit disappointed the collector flanges were not welded on the headers as I was told they would be. I can do it myself but it is a bit frustrating to spend a good sum of money and not get what you were committed. Oh well, I'll live...moving on

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With the new headers in place the next step was to set the engine placement. I decided since I was modifying everything anyways I might as well try to get the engine as far back as possible and make sure the oil pan, headers and bell housing are all tucked in the frame. Unfortunately there is where I started to get a bit happy with cutting. Now I just hope I can put it all back together.

Headers had to be tucked deeper in the floor than expected. I decided in an effort to move the header further away from my feet and to better balance the weight of the car I would offset the engine 3/4" to the passenger side. Not a huge change but I figure it doesn't hurt to try

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I knew I already needed to redo the trans tunnel from better clearance so the tunnel got cut out .. You can also see the areas where I cut the floor to clearance the subframe

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Then because I decided to move the engine back and tuck the headers it got cut a bit more. You can see where the floors had to be cut for the headers.

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Then because the Torque Arm mount and trans mount are now very close to I decide it would be nice to have then mounted with a combined mount. Since I also wanted more ground clearance and everything tucked I decided to follow the lead of other 2nd gen builds on the forums. The floor if now being prepped for a full length x-member to be added. This will also be tied into the subframe itself and rocker panels for better rigidity. I'll make a dropout center section of some sort of the mount for easy maintenance on the car too

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Forgot 1 more thing. I also didn't like the accessory drive I had and it didn't fit with the shock hoops. I made a prototype of a new setup with the PS lower on the driver side and the alternator on the bottom passenger side. I also tried to focus on maximum belt wrap. This is just form MDF but I'll most likely make it from 3/8" aluminum and have it laser cut.


All the parts except the alternator are factory from a 2010 Camaro including the 2 additional idler pulleys. The alternator is a lower amp alternator from a chevy truck because it has a smaller housing. I figure this will be nice in case anything goes out. I can easily get replacement parts locally.

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Wow looking great! It's funny how things snowball. Once you start doing one thing it affects the next and adds to time,money,thought,planning etc. Great progress tho.

Yea, I wasn't initially planning all of these changes but I figure if i'm going to do it I want to make sure I do it the best I can. I'm learning a lot...a lot more than I thought I was going to.

Oh indeed it is. I've been there !

Love this build! I'm looking forward to seeing how you approach the cross member mods. Especially how you are going to tie it into the rockers.

Not sure this is a good or bad response...

When will there be a new update on your build?? I love that car.

Thank for the kind words. I wasnt really planning anything super crazy for the cross member. When I say tie into the rockers I was thinking to simply contour the end of the x-member to the shape of the rocker and weld them together. That may change when I'm actually doing the work but for now that's the plan



This also make me think of something else I need to decide. It's a bit of a big thing because it entails both safety and strength/rigidity.

I added the shock hoops specific for the coil over mount and the plan was to add another set of bay bars and tie the 2 together. Once they were in they ended up a bit taller than I expected. Now I'm not sure how necessary the second set of bars really is.

Part of me if thinking to just tie into the shock hoops and then add a brace across the engine. The hoops are 1 3/4 DOM so I don't think there is a material strength issue. I just wonder if having a joint is a terrible idea.

Here's a rough sketch of what I was thinking. Hopefully the blue lines I added are visible. I'll probably add this to Sutton's safety thread as well

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Looking good Steve. You really have a lot going on. Looks well thought out best I can tell. Bummed we didn't get to see it last month.

You are wondering if the 2nd set of triangulated bars going to the firewall center area are necessary ? In either case you would still cross brace the shock mounts and bring in the "down bars" from the cage to the top of the shock towers ? I assume if you did bring the triangulated bars to the center area of the firewall that they are penetrating the firewall and joining to a dash bar ?

Just arm chairing it I would say those could be overkill at least if you are thinking more 1.75" DOM, it depends a little on how much top view angle you are getting from the cage to the shock towers. I guess I would be inclined to bring in the outside cage bars and cross engine brace, and then maybe go with something a little lighter and removeable if you still wanted to brace to the center of the firewall. You could build cage reinforcement on the cockpit side of the firewall, and provide a bolt in interface, and then use lighter weight removeable tubing that bolts on to the shock towers and the firewall reinforcement plate that I just mentioned.

I guess that means you need to find another car to buy and drive back to Cali soon or you can finish BMF and drive it back..




Not wondering so much about the second set of triangulated bars. More concerned if its better to have a full 1 piece bar coming off the main structure of the cage and coming to the front of the frame or if I can weld a short section from the front hoop of the cage.

I'm wondering if the bay bars will be weaker if they are 1 pieces of tubing welded together. And if they are weaker is it enough to cause a safety or rigidity concern. I hope I never wreck the car but if I do it would be nice to be protected


[/QUOTE]In either case you would still cross brace the shock mounts and bring in the "down bars" from the cage to the top of the shock towers ? I assume if you did bring the triangulated bars to the center area of the firewall that they are penetrating the firewall and joining to a dash bar ? [/QUOTE]

Yes, this would be the case.

[/QUOTE]Just arm chairing it I would say those could be overkill at least if you are thinking more 1.75" DOM, it depends a little on how much top view angle you are getting from the cage to the shock towers. I guess I would be inclined to bring in the outside cage bars and cross engine brace, and then maybe go with something a little lighter and removeable if you still wanted to brace to the center of the firewall. You could build cage reinforcement on the cockpit side of the firewall, and provide a bolt in interface, and then use lighter weight removeable tubing that bolts on to the shock towers and the firewall reinforcement plate that I just mentioned.[/QUOTE]

I agree 1.75" is probably overkill. I was stating that the hoops are currently 1.75 and should note that the main cage would be too. I'm thinking the outer down bars from the main cage to the shock hoops will be 1.75 for sure but agree with something lighter and removable over the engine to tie the 2 hoops together. I would probably use something like 1.5" or maybe a little less for the inner triangle to the firewall. The bolt on firewall plate integrated across the hoop supports does sound like a good idea as well

Few more updates. Made some good progress on the trans/TA mounts and made some new engine mounts. took a while but I got it all in position. Engine is at 2 degrees and offset 3/4" to the passenger side. The trans mount has a removable center section and just enough room for the exhaust to tuck in. Everything should be tucked in under the frame, which will be really nice.

I still need to well in a sleeve to the engine mounts so they don't collapse then torqued down. Also need to drill the final mounting holes for the trans mount and weld the entire mount in but overall its mostly complete.


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The bearing race and tape roll are to simulate the exhaust. the angle iron is tacked to the bottom of the frame

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What a great build this is man!

Nice work!

Thanks, I always appreciate the words of encouragement.




I also just about finished the front accy drive. I still need to make 2 spacers and get a few new bolts but overall its done. Hopefully it works ok.

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Looking good Steve.

Quick question. Whose harmonic balancer are you using? Looks like a Powerbond unit?

Tu

Thanks Tu. Yes, its a Powerbond under drive balancer.