Okay so, a lot of you won't be too interested in this video, but some might. This was my first session Sunday morning in the wet. The first 4 minutes or so show what I have to do each time to get belted into the car with a HANS device, you can skip forward if you aren't interested in that. I just thought I'd leave it in just to show what we go through, I can't reach the camera once belted in so I start the camera before.

The first lap on track is a warm up lap, I am shadowing my friend Rodney in the yellow Miata to see if I can learn anything about racing in the wet from a veteran. You'll see right away how easily the car steps out and as I'm learning when and where i can push things and when I just have to be patient.



I had a blast these two sessions, apparently I love racing in the rain. :D It takes so much away from the car and setup and puts it right in the driver's hands. It's fun for me to try to figure out ways to find grip where there isn't any. I wasn't pushing for speed on any of the straights in these sessions, mainly just trying to learn how to corner.

Anyway, hope you enjoy...I sure did.

This was the last session I ran on Sunday. We started about 10:30 am and it was still about half damp on track. I used the things I learned in the wet to really start clicking off nice laps as I gained confidence that it would stick.

Really enjoyed the whole weekend, can't wait to do it again.

Definitely looked like fun. I'm still getting used to track days so not sure I'm ready to go out on a wet track.

What I decided right away was to check my ego at the door, it was muddy everywhere and I didn't want to get stuck or cause an issue. I went out thinking first...just stay on the track. After a lap or two I started feeling my oats a bit, trying to see if I could find the edge...still plenty slow enough that if I did loose grip I could easily catch it. Once I had a good feel of what grip was there, I just started having fun with it. I was waiting...big time...on the straights for Rodney, even let another friend go by so Rodney and I could run together. I really got a kick out of being able to out corner the "race cars" in the wet with my big pig. Pretty sure we opened some eyes...

Harry's lap timer shows 1.08 Gs on both left and right turns at around 58 mph, top speed 116 MPH on my fastest lap. 0.47 Gs on braking typically...

That app is pretty cool if anyone wants to log their laps on tack days.

Learning to drive in the rain or wet is an excellent learning tool! nice job! I have Harry's laptimer setup on a tablet in my dash with an external GPS and OBD feed. It even controls my gopro for me! If only I knew how to use it...

This was my first road course attempt at using Harry's lap timer. Took a few sessions to get the hang of it but it is pretty cool once you get it running.

I was able to export the CSV files of all of my runs, I don't have any OBDII data in them but everything else is there and it is very interesting. What I need to be able to learn to do is access that data quickly between sessions and apply what I've learned in my next session.

Where I need to improve as a driver is to realize just how much more speed I can carry in any certain corner. I was taking turn 1 7-9 mph faster Sunday morning in the semi dry than I was all day Saturday in the dry. I learned it would stick in the wet if I let off the brake sooner before turn in, tried that in the semi dry and was amazed at the speed I could carry.

So, I participated in the Midwest MuscleCar Challenge last weekend for the first time...man what a great event! I'll do a proper write up sometime later, but here's a couple of videos of some of the fun we had!

Snuck into the back side of the Advanced group for a few laps with my instructor Kenny...



And my best and worse autocross runs on Saturday...



The car did great and the driver did okay...main thing is I brought it home in one piece.

Learned a ton, met a bunch of internet friends in person for the first time and just flat out had a blast...

Was really cool to hang out with the UMI guys all weekend, and to let Barney and the Green Machine get to know each other a little better as well.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...pspkor9nfm.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psrajpnjgr.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psefxtycil.jpg

Ever since adding the 0.375" wall tube centerpiece to my front MuscleBar last summer, Barney has had a slightly loose on corner exit symptom because the front to rear lateral load distribution was out of kilter. This trait was amplified when I added 125 ft lbs and 100 hp under the hood over the winter. I have to be super gentle on the throttle on corner exit to keep the rear of the car under me. I now have 2 autocross events and over 100 road course laps at 2 separate tracks under my belt with the new setup and while we tried some band-aids with shock adjustments to help with this condition to get me by (and were somewhat successful), it is very apparent that I need to finally heed Doctor Ron's advice and make another suspension change to cure these ills. He's been after me for a while to make this change and I was hesitant because I didn't want to hurt the on street ride of the car. I have put almost 2,000 miles on the car so far this year...it gets driven... I finally gave in though and ordered the parts a couple of weeks ago. I have spun the car around on course more times in the past 6 months than ever before and in order to continue to get faster, this has to stop.

Enter the cure... Old rear spring on the left, new rear spring on the right. We'll call this Stage 4...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...pseuj0dfkk.jpg


Initial street test drive shows positive improvement, before on a long fast on\off ramp turn...a slight touch of the throttle made the car loose, now I can increase throttle more and it will eventually make the car a bit tight but still very manageable. My parking lot autocross turn test facility had a similar positive result.

The best part is, ride quality really wasn't affected that much. Under normal circumstances it's hard to tell the difference. The only place I really noticed a change was the 1" bump up into the garage that was pretty stiff. Nothing at all that can't be dealt with on a street car, especially if it cures the handling issues.

I am registered for a local SCCA autocross this coming Sunday and I can't wait to try the new setup out at speed on course.

I also acquired these while in Indiana last week.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps0av9nnoi.jpg

The stack on the left are leftover 275 Falkens from last year and the stack on the right are some gently used 255 Rival Ss. I begged them off of the Pichettes and the DragonLady GTA so I could see what dropping down in size but up to a Rival did to the car before laying down the cash for a brand new set of smaller Rivals. I'm not sure if I'll mount them up before this Sunday or wait a bit before mounting them up. I'm milking my way through tires for this year and have several more events left in the set of Falkens currently on the car. Not enough to warrant a dismount, then mount up again later though.

Stay tuned, I'll be sure to update with results after the event. I love trying new stuff, especially if I think it'll be much better and I'm pretty sure this will be a huge positive change for the car.

Good stuff Lance, keep it coming. I'm in the same dept as you, only phase II we'll call it. Got some stuff coming (well, que'd up) from the good doctor as well.....

Lance, would you be so kind as to share spring specs with us, please?
Will this require a shock re-valve?

I've spent a couple days driving the car around now and so far, I like it! The ride isn't bad at all, in fact it's better than when I bumped the compression in the rear shocks up to compensate for the too soft prior springs. I'm not sure I can accurately describe how the car feels on the road now, it's like it pivots or rides off the rear of the car instead of the front. I'm still getting used to how well it corners, rear grip has increased tremendously. I'm loving how I can drive it right up to the edge comfortably and it gets tight first instead of loose...with the rear staying under the car the whole time.

I still have the rear shock rebound and compression set at full soft (so I wouldn't freak out on the ride initially). I'll bump up the rebound to where I used to run it before for my first run at the race this Sunday and see what happens. :D

Doctor Ron said to put everything else back to where it was and run it. I've been thinking that it does seem to be tight once I race it, I can stiffen the rear sway bar up to loosen it up again. And I have plenty of adjustment available in the shocks as well if necessary.

My daily driver truck in on the lift now with the front steering knuckles off getting new upper and lower ball joints, idler and pitman arms...so I don't think I'll get to swapping the BFGs on before Sundays race. That test will have to wait until later.

Scott, I took out 250# springs and replaced with 600#s.

Lance, I could tell that they visually looked to be much higher rated. I'm amazed that you are experiencing a tight condition with these rear springs. Keep us posted sir!

Well, my first autocross with the new rear springs was educational. :D It started off pretty rough but with shock adjustments got much better by runs 3 and 4. The late roll thru to corner exit rear grip is vastly improved. I kept sneaking up on it not knowing what to expect and it never once surprised me which is a very good thing, I have fought that issue for over a year. It still needs more tuning though so I signed up for a bonus SCCA event happening in Topeka this Sunday. We should get a few extra runs and hopefully some fun runs after the event which will give me more time to tune on it.

I also mounted these up yesterday...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psc5rz597s.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psjll7nsko.jpg

They look SO small...but they seem to be pretty grippy so far...

My runs from last Sunday...

Lance, any insight on theory/logic of increasing the rear spring grip so drastically to increase rear grip on exit? That is in the opposite direction of what my noob understanding would of thought. I'd love to learn why this works.

Also, did you notice an impact on the front end grip on corner entry and mid corner (which I would expect with such a jump in rear spring rate)?

Did you or Ron calculate spring frequencies or motion ratio in making the spring change?

Finally, you didn't get a chance to compare before/after on the same tire compound on a course, correct?

Thanks for being willing to share on this stuff.

Chad, I'm sure Ron will be along to explain it correctly when he gets caught up, he'll do a much better job of it than I will attempt to here.

The huge jump in rear spring rate is largely geared toward reducing rear roll rate (or increasing rear roll resistance, whichever way you want to look at it) without relying on a sway bar or help from the front in this manner. This in turn lets the inside rear tire stay planted and working in the roll thru or corner exit portion of the turn which is where my old setup was severely lacking. Ron did all of the calculations and has been trying to convince me to try this for about a year now.

With my rear roll center being so ridiculously high and no way to change that without adding more parts (watts link) this was the next logical step in making the car faster for us. The front was not affected at all, this thing still flat turns anytime I want it too, I can't remember the last time it pushed when not not induced by driver error.

I did not do any back to back tests on the same course...as we never run the same course twice...but my highway off ramp tests were done before and after the spring change with everything else the same including the tires. The rear grip change on long on\off ramps was drastically better with the new springs, application of throttle used to make it edgy loose, now the rear stays stuck while eventually the front will start to slide just a bit when adding throttle, just a light lift brings the front right back in. It is MUCH easier to drive fast this way. The autocross I ran last Sunday was pretty typical of a lot of the courses we run and I did it on my Falkens that I'm very used to so it was a good comparison as well.

What I did not know where to start with on race day was my rear shock settings... I initially had the same amount of rear rebound that I normally run, no rear compression and I hooked the new rear sway bar back up for my first run. Hence the huge drift slide in my very first turn... :D The car was super loose on corner entry, something I was not ready for. The inside rear shock just picked the right rear tire up under braking and turn in and all rear grip was gone after that. For each run after I kept taking rear rebound out and eventually started adding rear compression and I got the entry much better. Roll thru and corner exit were AWESOME, really felt good to not be afraid to push on the loud pedal with authority on corner exit. I only got 4 runs at it though, I believe with a few more driver mods and a click here or there more on the shock knobs can really tame down corner entry and it'll be a much easier car to drive fast on course as well.

Chad, go to about 3:00 in the video above and listen to my exit from the left hand sweeper. An application of throttle like that with my old setup would have spun the car out no doubt...it hardly even chirped the rear tires.

Thanks Lance. Explanation makes sense to me (again I'm a noob at this stuff).

Again I'm just looking to learn, but why did you want to not rely on a sway bar to accomplish the increase in rear roll resistance? In the back of my mind is Ron's soft spring big bar discussions.

With my rear roll center like it is, a stiffer rear sway bar just picks the inside rear tire up instead of limiting body roll. Disengaging the inside rear is one thing, carrying it 6" off the ground corner entry to roll thru zone is something much worse...

I'm not saying this is how it is for everyone, it is just how it is with my car right now.

Making a car fast on any course is a combination of many things...first and foremost, the car needs to be neutral balanced so the driver isn't fighting one end of the car or the other loosing traction first. Once the car is neutral balanced, it is up to the driver to get the most speed out of the car in any given corner. Different driver inputs can affect the way the car handles (usually referred to as the driver mod) both positively and negatively. Then one might also have other mechanical issues the driver and car must work around that aren't really chassis related that affect speed. How a driver\tuner deals with all of the above is typically fluid and it is only once all of the above are almost perfect that one will run at or near the top of the speed charts in any given competition.

Throughout the multiple stages of development on this car (with Ron's fantastic help) we've done a pretty good job at keeping the car neutral. We reached a plateau last fall after the addition of the much stiffer front bar and the car had a loose condition mid roll through to corner exit that we could not tune out. Enter Stage 4 I call it, a huge jump in rear spring rate.

I ran one event last week with the new springs and had some tuning challenges. I could tell the springs fixed the issue we intended on fixing, but a few other issues popped up that we had to contend with and with only 4 runs at a typical SCCA event I didn't have enough time to dial everything in.

After some discussion with Ron, we came up with a few more tuning ideas and I entered another SCCA event in Topeka last Sunday with the intention of using multiple runs on a much faster freer flowing course to dial things in further. I can say now that the car is neutral once again and has MUCH more rear grip on mid roll through to corner exit. It took me about 4 runs to get the rear shocks and tire pressures set where I needed them and then I used the next 4 runs to work on the driver mod getting him used to the new setup.

Another issue reared it's ugly head once again though, I've wore out yet another clutch type posi unit and spent just about every right hand corner exit spinning the right rear tire while trying to put the power down which I'm certain really hurt my times. If you can't put the power down, you aren't going to go fast. Watch the right rear tire in the first run, you'll see the black marks it leaves on most corner exits. The second run in the video was my last one during the fun runs after the event was over and was my fastest run of the day (in the 96 degree afternoon heat even). I finally started to get a good feel for how the car was going to react and dealt with the posi issue the best that I could.



It'll take some more work (and $$$) to fix it even better but that's why we do this...right? :D I'm trying to decide now which direction to go with a diff replacement. I know a certain green car that has dealt with similar diff issues and just installed a locker...I can't wait to hear how it does on course with this new addition. Some autocross gurus recommend against a locker, while others like them. I have no idea which way I'll most likely go...all I know is it will NOT be another trac-loc going back in the car.

Just remember - when the 'locker' locks up - it want's to push the nose straight....

I run a locker in the Mustang - don't think I'd like it a bit for AutoX..... but the fast guys love 'em.

I went with an Auborn Road Race diff in my '00 WS6 autoX car. I couldn't have been happier! Auborn even has a "racers rebuild" program where they'll swap it out

Interesting... Who facilitated the "racers rebuild" program? A dealer or Auburn direct?

So, this happened last week.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psmvzyyq7h.jpg

I am continually honored and flattered by the attention this car seems to get. It is a huge testament to those that have helped me along the way, people like Ron Sutton, Bret Voekel, Ramey Wormer and Ryan Kirkwood, as well as my wife Terri for being so patient with my hobby and my good friend John Parman who never fails to come up with a fabrication solution for my never ending issues that pop up with it. Huge thanks to all of you...

Cool write up Lance! What magazine was that in?

Thanks Chad!!

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/

Also, I saw Ron's post about you and if you have gone from 80 something PAX time to top 20 PAX times in your local SCCA then way to go!! I'm impressed! My last San Diego event I paxed high 30 something out of around 130 and my last Cal Club event I paxed just over 100 out of 230. I'd love to consistently pax in the top 20 or even top 20% :)

Thanks... He was referring to raw times though...not PAX. My PAX times are generally further down the list than fastest raw times depending on the course design and number of entrants.

Participation in our local events has really stepped up the last year or so and we are getting many more faster entrants to our events. Our first event this year I raw timed 29th out of 142 timed runs and pax'd 31st.

https://kcrscca.org/results/solo/201...event1_raw.htm
https://kcrscca.org/results/solo/201...event1_pax.htm

Event 3 I raw timed 46th out of 162, pax'd 50th

https://kcrscca.org/results/solo/201...event3_raw.htm
https://kcrscca.org/results/solo/201...event3_pax.htm

Everyone else switching to Rivals and me being stuck on Falkens has hurt my finishes the past year or so. That is at least a 1-2 second advantage they have from what I can tell. I ran a wore out set of smaller Rivals last weekend to test and it is amazing how much more grip they had. Of course I had other issues which hurt my finishes there. Isn't that always the case? The short tight course at Midwest Musclecar dealt a death blow to my clutch posi, so the last two events I've been spinning just the right rear tire on every corner exit which really hurts on the stop watch. Working on a more permanent cure for that now.

Congrats on the writeup, Lance! GRM is always good reading. Your car for sure exemplifies what the CAM class was designed to be, and your sharing the experience here is a big part of that.

Super cool to see the ongoing development of your setup. I keep coming in here and always pick up something from the analysis you and Ron have done that I end up applying to our car in one way or another. Keep up the good work!

Thanks Duston, all we wanted when we started was a place to play with our cars...and look what it has turned into!

We are seeing more and more guys do like just yourself and take cars that were set up for drag racing and turn them into corner carvers so they can come play with us.

Nice press, Lance. Congrats! Best of luck with the continued success of the car.

It has been a while since the last update so here is a little that I have been working on.

For a while now I have been fighting excessive rear brake rotor heat during and after a track session. After some careful diagnosis and help from a few friends, hopefully this will be a big help.

I run the Ford Racing Explorer rear disc brake kit which includes a cast caliper bracket attached to a sheet metal rotor shield that also holds the e-brake internals in place. This shield completely covered the inside face and outer edge of the solid (non-vented) rotor.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...712161719b.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...0712161939.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...712161939a.jpg

A little work with a bandsaw should let some heat escape and some cool air get to the rotors now...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...714161435a.jpg

I had the axles out because I was repairing yet the 3rd or 4th burnt out clutch posi in the car. Actually...I was replacing it with this.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...0709161432.jpg

Barney now transfers it's power to the rear tires through an Eaton Detroit Locker with some of Ron Sutton's 40# internal springs. I've only driven it a few times since and on very crappy stock size tires...but I can tell already that I am going to like my corner off traction, especially on right hand turns...a TON better.

Speaking of tires...this also has happened...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...0714160813.jpg

The stack on the left are an old set of 275 Falkens that I've been running the past few years...the stack on the right is my new set of 275 RE71s. I can't wait to officially join the sticky tire club!!! Hopefully this next week I'll have something to mount those tires on.

Barney
 

Lance,
You will love the new tires.. wish they made a larger size
for my rears but the Rival S tires are close

Hopefully the rear end will hold up to the extra grip

Bob

Me TOO!!!

I'll have the new wheels on Wednesday!!

Very cool. I love how you are chipping away at the upgrades as weak points are discovered and time / budget allows. Run what you brung, upgrade when it brakes or your skills outrun your hardware.

I would love to watch you guys run somewhere, it looks like a blast.

Thanks...Stay tuned for more updates... :D teaser pic

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...0721160755.jpg



The SCCA is racing out at MCC in Blue Springs this Sunday, you should come out. I may or probably won't make it out with Barney though, just depends on how Saturday goes. There are lots of CAM cars already preregistered though.

http://www.motorsportreg.com/events/...4#.V5D-1PkrKM8

Ooooo, I know, I know! :secret:

:D Yeah I really hoped to have a race report to go along with the rest of the updates, but life got in the way once again and I didn't make it to the event. I'm very close to getting things wrapped up in that area so I can get back to racing more regularly which is a good thing.

Here are the new wheels installed with new RE71 rubber around them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...0721161817.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...721161817a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...721161817b.jpg


They are like works of art... They've been on the car since Thursday and I still stop to look at them everytime I walk by the car in the garage. Haven't driven on them much but the grip from the Bridgestones is amazing! Can't wait to race on them. #Stickytireclub #Finally