The distributor is driven off the cam which only makes one rotation to the crank shaft's two rotations. I agree though that it's best to lift a valve cover to make sure you're on the compression stroke and not the exhaust stroke

What spark plug wire separators do you have on your valve covers?....I have been looking for something like those but haven't had luck finding any.

Moroso, pretty common, Summit & Jegs, etc.

I knew what you meant, it was a good knuckleball you threw me considering the moment. :D

Poof should verify valve opening. Unless you have a plugged exhaust but pull the valve cover to satisfy 27% of us.

I think you need more timing, oh an be prepared to swap out that power valve. The power valve protection doesn't work as well as they like it to. It's cheap insurance, unless you have a tester.
If you have another throat fire just crank it more. The vaccum create will put it out.
Put a battery charger on it while you are doing the first start. Ensures the ignition and starter gets what it needs

Open headers.

Didn't have any "huge" pops, can you visually detect a damaged power valve as in diaphram compromised? I have a couple backup valves if that's the case.

Connected to charger while cranking, works until the assumed starter thermal protection kicks in. That's where the towel comes in handy. ;)

I'm going to check a tach wiring concern and see what I find tonight. The distributor has an internal rev limiter and I'm wondering if for some reason that may be what I'm up against right off idle? To program the limiter you ground and when it was wire I'm wondering if it was grounded and set the rev limit real low? Based on the symptoms that would make sense. We shall see.

Thanks for the help everyone.........Jerry too. :rofl: :thumbsup:

I have checked the PV by putting the hex end against my lips, then depressing the diaphram (push on other end), then suck hard and release your finger and see if the the diaphram stays open. Stop sucking and see if it closes, it will only move a little bit. Or If you lightly keep your finger on it and suck and release suck and release ..you'll feel it move in and out while sucking


HEY if it still don't start... just buy Vince's eng and have him get it started for ya :_paranoid :willy: and you're fricken welcome.. :cheers:

Could you supply video of the PV check procedure? :unibrow:

Technically Vince's engine could have fallen victim to the same circumstances......not that I would like to have it!

If that tach wire was inadvertantly grounded at some point, like when testing the starter or if the little Autoguage tach I'm using isn't communicating properly with the distributor the rev limit could "possibly" be set at 2K. Somewhat grasping at straws but that's trouble-shooting.

TACHOMETER INFORMATION
The MSD Ready-to-Run has a Gray wire that provides a 12 volt square wave, 20° duty cycle tachometer signal that will trigger most tachometers. It is recommended to connect this lead to your tach’s trigger input wire and check its operation. Note that the rpm limiter is extremely accurate and due to the variety of tachometers available, there may be differences in the displayed rpm.
PROGRAMMING THE REV LIMIT
A tachometer is required to set the rev limit. The limit is programmed by running the engine at half the desired rpm, then momentarily grounding the Gray tach output wire from the MSD. A Gray jumper wire is supplied to connect to the tach with another tee-splice coming off to use for programming. A switch may also be installed to ease adjustments of the limiter (Figure 15). The default rpm limit is 10,000 rpm and the limit is adjustable from 2,000 - over 10,000 rpm..
1. Start the engine and bring the rpm to half the desired rev limit (for a 6,000 rpm limit, raise and hold the rpm to 3,000).
2. While holding the rpm steady, short the Gray tach wire to ground for approximately one second. Note that the tach will go to zero while grounded.
3. The tach will now display the programmed rev limit amount for two seconds. If this value does not register on the tach, repeat the procedure and try a different ground source.
4. To confirm the rev limit value, turn the ignition key to the On position (without cranking the engine). The rev limit value will be displayed for two seconds on the tachometer.
Note: This rpm confirmation only displays when the Gray wire is being used to trigger the tachometer.

orr you can disconnect all that fancy stuff for now just to get it running and eliminate all the possibilities.
KISS me
I don't like first starts with no exhaust, just a personal preference. Its hard to hear the little issues that might happen.

The tach is kinda handy for break-in. :D It can be wired old school vs. using the designated lead. That internal rev limiter is a concern, so is a defective distributor the way my luck has been. :yes:

Understood on the exhaust........what do the pro-stock guys do? :unibrow:
I might cut it to length and tack it up........in my spare time. :thumbsup:

"what do the pro-stock guys do" We drag racers get used to listening to engs uncorked ;)

I don't think that the Rev limiter will make it blubber and back fire. It'll just miss (ever hit the rev limiter on your bike? I'll sound like that) You're doing the rt thing checking any and all possibilities :thumbsup: OH and that video is on it's way :willy:

Just checked the rev limiter's current setting........turn key on and "the tach will display the value for 2 seconds." My tach displays zero, and the needles initial mocement is towards a negative number. http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums...eadscratch.gif

I'm guesing that budget AutoGuage tach is not compatible with the new distributor.

Time to confirm tach wiring..........I can just run the lead to the negative post on the coil instead of the gray lead off the distributor.

It would be nice to just install this:
http://www.autometer.com/img/products/6001_d.jpg

Living in Eugene -- ever heard that Nike statement??


:rofl:

I did it and it don't do it. :willy:

:D

Disconnected the distributor tach lead and connected to coil negative, checked chassis ground, float level in middle of sight glass, tried to light it and advanced and retarded the distributor while cranking and cylinders are firing but possibly not all of them..........?

Time to check valve adjustment?

Hold on a sec,

Pull a plug first....see if they are wet or dry.

Wet (damp) last night when I pulled #1.

i'd fix that....fuel fowled plugs won't fire well if you were spot on. Your getting there.

Pull all the plugs and crank it for a few secs to blow the fuel out. If it were me i'd replace all wet ones. You should have at least 2-4 dry ones if it tried to run.

It's worth a try.

Current plugs are Autolite 3924 @ .040. Is wet and .040 gap vs. .035 enough to cause issue?

I by no means am a pro here as compared to others, but I'd like to give my .02 cents, might help or it might not

I recently did a valve adjustment on my 305, which ran fine after replacing all the top end gaskets from the block up, but it had some rocker arm ticking. so I attempted my first valve adjustment. After the adjustment she wouldn't fire at all, except when I sprayed some starting fluid in the carb, even then I would have to keep the throttle in a bit to keep it running, and while it was running the motor was shaking pretty violently. I was thinking it was timing and all that, but in the end I had tightened the valves down too much and they were hanging open a bit. Checking the valve adjustment isn't a bad idea!!

.035 for a street engine that idles a lot at stop lights etc... you're not going to see any performance difference by gapping larger.


I'd also buy a can of starting fluid... give it a small shot - and see if she wants to fire... sometimes that is all that's needed to tell you a lot.

Thanks guys. I'll have to chuckle if it comes down to wet plugs and lack of octane after all the speculation.........especially being an old 2-stroke motorcyclist that dealt with more than a few wet/fouled plugs in his day.

Like Vince said......KISS

:thumbsup:

Who adjusted the valves? You or the engine builder? No point in checking the valves if the engine builder did it...

If you're going thru the trouble of pulling the plugs - leave them out - pull the V/C and set your timing per the earlier post... then at least you know that's really really close. Doing the finger over the hole poof test - watching the valves so you know you're in compression mode after the intake opens and then closes - and seeing the rotor come up to number 1 is a good feeling and brings closure to that question. Bring your timing to zero - look at the rotor. Advance the crank timing to show 10* and look at the rotor - adjust the distributor to have the rotor spot on #1. Now you're timing is set dang close.

Then button it back up...

Try the starter fluid... just a little! That will tell you right away if you have fire. If she does nothing - then you know you have a lighting issue to chase down.

Floats in the middle of the site glass would be HIGH? Not familiar with your carb - but Holleys want the fuel at the BOTTOM of the hole...

Typically - a jab here - with OLD SKOOL carb motors.... :D I'd turn the idle adjustment all the way in - and back them out 1 and a half turns. That's usually "close" to get a motor running. Not sure about your carb... so really can't advise you there but a call to them could help you. :cheers:

Confident the shop managed to get the lifters right, same with the distributor. I visually checked the rotor and timing mark against #1 already.

Float level is still high but OK for jack stand starts.

Carb has internal central air correction adjustment to set idle mixture in conjunction with the individual fuel screws vs adjusting optimal butterfly position.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-w...-wzPvHfT-M.jpg

:unibrow:

Is the battery hooked up?? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Ship your monkey up here to check that for me would ya. http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums.../bitchslap.gif

Ok He'll bring that video too

:rofl: :thumbsup:

happy dance yet? :unibrow:

Didn't get home until 8, my 11 year old daughter had volleyball try-outs tonight. That was worth a happy dance! After 4 years of playing everyone's a winner she's on the A team and the talent level is impressive and they are focused. :woot: :woot:

Just installed the plugs. I'm thinking you nailed it........fingers crossed. Hopefully tomorrow evening. :thumbsup:

congrats! thats awesome.


don't forget to clear the cylinders before you install them. Where any of them dry?

Thanks.

I spun it a while with no plugs and left it open to breath all day.

Some were damper than others.......:D

That's where a little shot of starter fluid will help.... get's her running right now! And the heat will take care of the plugs.

You'll want to change them out anyway after the run in. They might start out fouled and then go glazed on you.

Plus - pulling them and letting us see close ups will help us see anything that might be tell tale.

I always (still) use the strap to tell me if timing is right... but that's a whole 'nuther discussion when we get there.:cheers:

Interesting........tried to light it this afternoon with the new plugs and I'll assume somewhat dry cylinders, first attempted no throttle and no response, so I gave it a 1 second shot of starting fluid into all venturi's and cranked it and it responded crisply but stumbled and went flat. Repeated the starting fluid procedure and when it acted like it was wanting to light I applied light throttle (visual on the squirters) and it went flat. Repeated the procedure same negative results.

Now I'm wondering if the fuel in the car could have possibly become contaminated? It was clear premium/E10 premium blend from the 1st of Aug. and the gauge shows half a tank.

This is getting silly considering it's a gen 1 tractor motor.......:D

I pulled drivers side valve cover and put the rotor on 1 & 6 and checked the rockers visually and by feel and I'm pretty confident they are adjusted correctly.

Thinking the next step is to try and fire it with starting fluid and feed it with a squirt bottle full of fresh fuel?

:willy:

Sometimes if I get a car with unknown fuel, i'll kill the supply and fill the bowls with fresh fuel but start on starter fluid, no pumping. Should catch on after a few seconds of running. Manually open the throttle and spray the fluid into the bores. Shut, then crank. I see alot of guys just spraying the top of the carb.

You should be fine , that fuel is what... a few months old? Don't worry about the valves they are good for now.

How high is the idle when it does run?
Keep going with the starter fluid. I'd feed it a bit more timing and a little more throttle blade.

Thanks for chiming in Vince, always appreciated. :thumbsup:

Haven't managed to get it to a point that I have a clue where the idle speed might be.

Never had a bad fuel issue with the car in 23 years and I'm still using the same fuel suppliers. Though with the previous motor you could definitely feel subtle differences between E-10 mid-grade, premium, clear premium and 100 or 110 race gas.

I'll give it a try priming with open throttle and if that doesn't do it I"ll try feeding it some fresh 110 fuel with a small squirt bottle and see what happens.

I had no idea she'd require this much foreplay! LOL

she's like an old WWII Japanese radio, you gotta hit all them knobs in the right sequence for her to go. LOL

Some are quick some are slow to go.

When it does go, does it rev them drop or does it just go bllluuubbbeeeerrble.

bllluuubbbeeeerrble.........excellent description! Rev only applies to my dog and he's getting frustrated too. :D

i'd say it needs a bit more timing and spray. Rotate that sucker 1/16 of a turn CCW and 1 turn in on the throttle. Don't be shy, the most she'll do is pop at you or rev.
Its will run better with too much advance than it will with too much retar....timing challenged.

Maybe I do need Jerry's monkey. :_paranoid

To be continued............