I was expecting animation with narrative from the science guy.

Nice work.

Very cool.

A lot more holes to plug in an OE sub, but it might be doable.

I think Mark has a lab coat.

Someone needs to con Mark or Paul into posting pictures of the rest of the hand fabricated duct work Matt did for the front brakes. They are a real work of metal art.

Mark, Is it safe to say that a majority of the cars on this site would see a disadvantage to this set up? I distinctly remember Wilwood telling me that many don't get enough heat in the brakes to make them perform at the top of their capabilities in our segment.

I expected that some of work you did on the new Z28 would trickle down into your new 69..

What are your thoughts on traction control for these old hot rods? Currently researching Racetronix & Bosch Motorsports ABS..

I'm inclined to believe that cooling would help Wilwoods A LOT. When I ran their brakes on my Camaro the aggressive street pads faded quickly, and the track pads worked right up until the time I boiled the brake fluid. I'm probably about ten development cycles behind Mark though, but stainless or better pistons and some cooling look to be an improvement.

If you’re not pushing your car real hard, big brakes and brake cooling should not be an issue. On my cars at my power and grip levels brakes and brake cooling become a big deal. Red Devil was right on the edge of not having enough brakes. My spotter we telling me my rotors were yellow the last time we tested it. I also tuned the clear coat on the calipers yellow.

On most Brembos they have a clear coat. Look at CTS-Vs at a track day. If the guy is on it, his front calipers will not be silver they will be gold. At work we get them to a carmel color.

On that note anyone doing hard track work should run a high perfromance brake fluid. I change mine twice a season.

ABS brakes also drive rotor temps up. ABS also allows later braking points which means you are trying to get gid of more heat over a shorter period of time. If you are braking at the 5 going into a turn and I'm braking at the 2 my rotor temps are higher and I'm going faster.

Thanks Mark

That is exactly how I did the Mustang coolers, even shaped like the the new Camaro's. Maybe for once I was ahead of my time.LOL

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/M...DSC00252-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/M...DSC00258-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/M...DSC00520-L.jpg

Traction control is a very tricky topic. Can it make you faster? Yes. Is it very hard to tune? Yes.

Not until the Z/28 was PTM (Performance Traction Management) ie Traction Control equal to drivers best effort or in some cases better. The other thing about PTM is it is much easier to drive fast.

BTM is very complicated. It is a fully integrated system that uses the following sensors:

Throttle position
4 wheel speed sensors
4 suspension travel sensors
Lateral sensor
Longitudinal sensor
Yaw sensor
Tire Pressure Sensors

All this feeds into a predictive tire models that predicts how much power the rear tires can take. We even use the suspension travel sensors to know if the car is airborne so not to cut power when it lands (Flying Car Mode).

So can it be done? Yes. Do I use it on my Hot Rods? No.

I don't have the time or the money to calibrate it. At 875 HP the integration time takes a long time and a lot of tires.

If I had a shop and sold cars to the public. (Not that guy in Woodland that can drive high HP stuff) I would think about slip based traction control to keep people from hurting themselves. My cars can do 3rd gear roll on burn outs! The pro race teams tune the TC systems to each track so it is easy. A one sizes fits all calibration is tricky.

Mark

High torque stuff too!

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-m...-mrsgVNv-S.jpg

Back on traction control - KTM's new traction management system on their 1290 motors is modulating power via the throttle shafts. A qualified friend who's old-school anti-technology said the feel of the system is very impressive. Is throttle shaft/butterfly modulation being used in the automotive world?

All new GM engines are throttle by wire, so yes the PTM system pulls throttle also. But, moving spark or dropping cylinders is faster. When you want and small correction in torque it is better than pulling throttle.

Mark

Does that pic make my feet look big ?

Not if you're at the Circus.

Thank you Mark.. I knew this would be a huge learning curve for me on these two subjects.. My biggest concerns on implimenting TC & ABS units that are designed for racing is the liabitiys.. I will have to have to discusss this with my customer..

Another..................

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...ttachment2.jpg

I was catering to the average guy on this site. For a mainly street application and autocross in a conventional brake set up, especially with manual brakes, I think heat is your friend. When you get to repetitive brake stop challenges and road racing, I agree completely. I cooked my brake fluid at almost every multi event and road course.

Maybe a set up when you can block it off for street and autocross.

Thanks for the explanation Mark...

Man. I took a dump this big yesterday.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...ps79acfb95.jpg

Hi Mark,

I don't know for sure what is going on in the picture... but I'm assuming the changes in color represent changes in air speed. It looks like the air is flowing through the valance, around the rotors, and out through the wheels. What a great tool for designing the valance and ducting for cooling the brakes. No guess work here.

I would be interested if you had any more details about this picture... cool stuff.

I cry foul! Where's my Royalty checks? The Beach Cruiser has be set up like this for a while! Maybe it is I that should be careful of the pictures I post :bang:

http://i539.photobucket.com/albums/f...psaac03114.jpg

:ttiwop:

Mark as of right now there are 54 pages and how many pictures to this thread...please go outside and take pictures of the damn snow if you aren't going to bless us with pictures of the Camaro.....
Signed everyone
Thanks

OK a crappy snow photo....

If you want car photos the Dutchboys will need to post them.

Lmao thanks mark...smart ass...guess I could have looked out my own windows to see that....but it does look like you've got more snow then us.
On a serious note when you built malitude you used a Canadian guy mmmmm his name is escaping me right now but he was too far from London ontario. I've got his name written down somewhere and address, my question is were you happy with the results...would you send anyone to see him for work. Reason I ask is for what I'm planning on paint requires someone to have a gentle touch and attention to detail. I can pm you the details if you need to know what I'm planning. Was kinda thinking about possibly using him
Thanks Ryan Austin

PS did you check out www.garagescapes.ca for your garage yet

I always knew that Stielow guy was a fake...now we all can see how he REALLY does it, stealing ideas from here and there, HA! Anyone can do that.....

AND NOW WE KNOW!!!

Lol!!!

No offense dude, but im sure the finished job will not look so crude on the Stielow version, id bet on that... right now!!

Lol!! Nice idea tough! And it works im sure of that, so serious points for the idea!!

Lead.

That could have been worded differently.

Looks good!

What does the spindle side look like?

Mark

It's just an L shapped Tab that bolts to the backside of the spindle to hold it in place. It's butted up against the back of the spindle so there's minimun air leakage. The air is routed to the inside of the brake rotor, I really should make some plates to keep the air from leaking out of the rotor and force it all through, but so far the brakes have held up pretty good. I could tell a difference in the brake dust patterns on the wheel before and after I did it.

And Lead, If I really cared about powdercoating my spindles and control arms, my stuff would be a close second to Marks. But I'm working on a shoe string budget for sure!

Man, that shop looks so awesome. Maybe we need a new build thread just for that!!! :idea:

Sorry for the long awaited updates, We have been really busy here in the shop along with getting Marks car into the final paint stage. We have been making a lot of progress in the last few weeks with the small needed details and looks like we will be getting the car in the booth for paint by the end of the week.

We just got the firewall, bottom of the car and subframe painted this last week and back together.


Mario and PPG hooked us up with all of the paint for Marks car a few weeks back. We are getting very excited to see some color going on it this week.

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...ps7738c248.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...psb07c9305.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...psa2855e75.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...ps56afc3b1.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...ps233c1aa1.jpg

More updates to come next week! The body color and carbon paint scheme should be pretty cool!

Can't wait. I know it'll be awesooommmmmmmmee!!:bigun2:

A lot of folks wonder why it costs so much to do a really nice paint job.
How much retail is that just in paint sitting on the table?


Jeff-

You are exactly right, the days of a $5,000 paint job are long gone.
Sitting on that bench in paint at retail has to be in the $4,000-$5,000 range. And that isn't even including the other things it takes to do one. Sandpaper,tape,paper,plastic etc.

Some people just don't understand why it costs so much to paint a car. But when you wrap up 5-6 grand up in materials it really adds up on top the the hundreds of hours it takes to get the car into final paint.

:thumbsup:

I would say somewhere around $3k

Did we get a paint color hint yet?

2021 is a great clear, but I gotta ask, whats up with the quarts?

I like the end result of 2021, I just hate trying to get that first coat on. It doesn't play as nice as some of the other clears.

Always like progress pictures ..... looks exceptional as expected!!!

Man there is not much left of that radiator support ... waiting on color shots!!!!

Where is the belly pan???

Mark is the worst (or would it be best) tease ever.. we demand satisfaction!

I can't wait to see the car with some color!