I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think you should drive my car. :lol: Come to cars and coffee tomorrow morning. I'm serious.

Dual 7/8" master cylinders feel completely different than a tandem bore 7/8" master cylinder. It makes the latter setup feel like spongy power brakes. The Pozzis thought my brakes just flat out didn't work when they drove my car at Del Mar. Fran at RCR specs out 3/4" fr and 7/8" rr for his GT40s. Campell Auto Restoration prefers the same for most of their builds, which is what Kevin spent a while chatting with me about at last years Grand National Roadster Show.

If you think about it, the 3/4" will have a longer stroke with less resistance, whereas the 7/8" will will be firmer and move the same amount of fluid with less stroke. On these setups you'll be able to use the balance bar to adjust bias. I'm guessing you'll want to roll the bar fairly heavily towards the front... Damn this is to hard for me to explain right now. I need to just show you some time lol.

Matt

Matt you're probably right...but I have a few thoughts on this. First is master bore size is one of those dial in things. If the first one doesn't give me the pedal feel I'll up or downsize. Secondly, master sizing is a function of fluid requirements for pistion bore size (sq area). On the Baer's a 15/16 or 1" is reccomended. C6Z's reqiuire 7/8" according to Tobin; I'm not sure what the prefect size is for your Wilwoods. Smaller bore moves more fluid and has more pedal travel in theory. Either way, balance bar goes way up front as you said.

So the goal is not to have a spongy pedal. I'm also going to call Baer on Monday and seek Rick's input.

I'd love to hear other's thoughts on this as well :lateral:

Geesh Ron, I'm glad I got a street car only so I don't have to figure out all that crap out. You racer/track guys are on another level. :faint:

[QUOTE=Gonzo;382696]Marty- We tore it apart & sold it for parts! Got a LS7 for sale!:unibrow:

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...n/IMG_1813.jpg




Do you have any pictures that show the distance between the side of the ls head and the frame rail? I'm curious about the how little room there is for exhaust clearance.

He's really just making it more complicated than it really truly is...

Bigger bore - less pressure - more pedal and more effort is required for the same stopping power...

Smaller bore - more pressure per effort - more pedal modulation.

More SMALL pistons in these "multi piston brakes" do not always equal more MC because - like motors - 5 liters is still 5 liters - 12 cylinders or 6...

Pedal RATIO is important - for brake pedal TRAVEL -- and the multiplier of effort. 7:1 ratio will travel MORE and produce more pressure per effort than will a 6:1 pedal.

It ain't rocket science. The other #2 thing people forget about or make poor choices about is what pad they choose --- because a super hard race/autocross pad will feel crappy on the street regardless of all of the above. :willy: :D

You'd better hope that one of the masters hanging there is for your CLUTCH numb nuts.....:rofl:

Just ask Kenny. He has trying to make the better softer in the 57 for about 8 weeks. He gone up, down andeven changed the pedal ratio in both directions. He thinks he finally has it figured out. So no clue how it ended up but we think it done.

Thank you Greg! you are good for something on this forum :lol:

Another thing that needs to be taken into consideration is mounting of pedals & calipers.. The stronger the mount.. The less defelection you will get & the firmer your pedal will feel..

Ron will get me the bore diameter on the calipers & we will do a calculation of what will get us in the ball park.. It is always different from our calculation due to how you want pedal feel..

We will have that when we tack the headers up...

[QUOTE=DJW32;383310]

LS Dry Sump Oil Pan Block
 

Lately we have been having a few LS7 with the dry sump systems on them.. One thing that was a pain on the oil pan plumbing was fittings that were big & the angles were taking it into the header.. I think this will help out with that.. Made our own oil pan block that sits it on top with a 30 degree angle.. Ordering fittings on Monday so the we can make a -12 fitting extender to take the hoses on a 90 degree..

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...n/IMG_1832.jpg


http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...n/IMG_1833.jpg

Very cool updates Ron.

Man! Cris sure does fab some cool stuff.

Nice valve covers. I just bought a set on eBay right before checking out your thread. All great minds think alike. :thumbsup:

However, what's all that triple stuff about? :lol:

Looking good Ron!

WTF!! You guys aren't done yet!! What year is this!!

Just kiddin guys :rofl:

Ron you know I love this build and Chris is ths man!! Friggin guy is genius.

My favorite part of this car is seeing the R888's in the back ground. You know when a guy is building a car and chooses R888's that he intends to play hard :unibrow:

Hope you guys make it to Buttonwillow in September. That would be the BOMB :thumbsup:

Heck, he'll def make BW in Sept...

Now RTTC in March... he better be ready for that. :cool:

Hey Ron
 

Nice progress.

Here is what I have come up with messing with my twin master set up for years. I am at .70 for the front and 3/4 for the rear. Running the Wilwood stuff (6 piston front 4 piston rear)and the sizing for my caliper piston area is about the same as a C5/C6 vette. My pedal ratio is 6:1. Caliper pressure gauges show 1200 psi front and 900 psi rear with about 100 lbs of leg pressure. I started at 7/8 in the front and 1 inch in the rear and could barely get my car to stop.

As Greg stated, the larger the bore the more fluid volume. I would have a higher pedal ratio (7:1) if I could have made it fit and run a slightlly larger bore size.The problem that I have run into is the masters are so small to help the pedal effort and to be able to lock the wheels, I do not have much fluid volume and you can really tell the pad knock back. If I were running power brakes with a large volume master (1 3/16), it would hide the knockback that I am getting now.

The balance bar is for fine tuning and you will need to try and size the masters as to run the balance bar as close to the center as possible. Then use the adjustment to fine tune or change for conditions. IE autocross, more rear brake, speed stop less. Reason for the larger master in the rear is for fluid volume and for the same given pedal effort there will be less force applied to the rear. Also, the rear caliper piston area is normally smaller than the front and will require less pressure.

Getting the corrrect pads will make the most difference in your stopping power. I was running Wilwood BP 10's and could not lock them up when cold. Swithed to a high bite autocross pad and it was like night and day. While trying to find the right brake compound I tried a full race pad, way too much for a street tire. I went to bed them in on the interstate, running 85 mph I hammered the brakes to start the heat cycle...front tires locked up. I was suprised to say the least.

That is a pretty racing looking set-up you have going there. Good luck with getting it dialed in. I would not run the same size master front and rear.

Sorry guys, it was a very busy weekend and I coouldn't get back to this!

Greg/Marty thx for the input!

Bry - the trips are for a better control/finer adjustment and as Payton said, you can really get to it quick depending on use.

Cris - great work as usual. That oil pan fitting is a thing of beauty! Time to update the JCG Products thread?

Gae/Dave- Gunnin for Sept. RTTC is gonna be tough...:willy:

Payton/Matt - thx for your guidance. I think everyone gets a little smarter when guys who've done it jump in. I did speak to Baer and got some data over to Cris this AM. We'll do the calcs and try to get as close to a good starting point as we can. It looks like smaller/bigger (fr/rr) is the way to go. As far as pads go, all I have at the moment is stock from Baer. I have some ideas on that but need to get farther down the road to dig into it.

:cheers:

Keeps gettin cooler and cooler Ron!!

Good luck with your September date. Lol....I used to set completion dates :lol:

Cris - great work as usual. That oil pan fitting is a thing of beauty! Time to update the JCG Products thread?

Time to update it indeed Chris, I will take one if you are making them.
Great car Ron!

Very nice as per usual Chris. I'd be in for one but I need to check and see if it will clear my (low mount) a/c compressor first.

G.

Machine shop made 6 of these prototype oil pan blocks.. Currently getting modified for clearance on the oil pan.. I still need one more custom fitting to proof fitment..
I will keep you guys posted on the these parts as I go..

Haha Brent. I wouldn't be putting completion dates out there either if I was on my THIRD cam...:lol:

Oooh saw that did ya? I promise this is the LAST one. :thumbsup: Might swing down there next week to take a first hand peak. :unibrow:

Anything new on the coil braket situation? Let me know if I can assist....

Got a little bit of progress this week! One header.. :D

http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...n/IMG_1856.jpg

Both headers are done & on the car for Ron to come check out.. The Kooks headers were a pretty good product to work with..

Nice!

Yeah, I guess I'd have a motor program too if I had unusally large cubes, C5R heads and multiple cam sponsors! :thumbsup:

The brackets should be in early next year. Maybe we'll call your friend together and see what he can do!

Thx Jeffio! I'm digging your sheet (metal) also....:thumbsup:

Them there be some nice headers buddy!

Meanwhile, back in Oxnard, CA…Cris is pounding away at the punchlist, and as he posted yesterday the headers are welded up. There’s still a little to finish, but I’m pretty happy with the way they came out. The issue has always been that besides AME there’s not much out there for a good fit for their sub and motor mount system. Sure, they make a nice piece but it only comes in 1 ¾” and I wanted 1 7/8” loooong tubes. Frank has been working on a Stainless works 2” set up, and that’d be great if I was building a drag car/motor. So months back I got a set of Kooks unwelded. The plan was always to chop and reweld to fit and that’s what Cris did.

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/a...d/IMG_2471.jpg

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/a...d/IMG_2468.jpg

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/a...d/IMG_2469.jpg

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/a...d/IMG_2461.jpg

As you can see, they protrude a little ( ~ ½”) beyond the side and bottom framerail, but I’m cool with that.

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/a...d/IMG_2465.jpg

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/a...d/IMG_2466.jpg

Also, Cris’ oil pan fitting was a hit and there’s plenty of clearance there too –

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/a...d/IMG_2463.jpg

Cris is moving onto finishing the firewall fab and bodywork it so we can (hopefully) start reassembly! I’ll also run by the motor shop next week and post some specs/pics.

Haha E, you beat me to the post by a couple of minutes! :yes:

Chris Did a fabulous job on those headers....Looking very Good Ron! :cheers:

Very nice. :thumbsup: I wish I could take pics like yous guys do.

I'll try and get a fix on the height of the sway bar for ya.

Headers look great Ron! So does the oil pan!:thumbsup:

X2 they look great.

Ron- Good to see that you liked the outcome of the headers & the oil pan dry sump block.. We will keep moving forward..

I made 6 dry sump oil pan blocks.. Two are spoken for.. one for Ron's car & just got off the phone with Jason/WAR.. he wants another one.. The -12 extenders are great pcs. for us to have around.. They help with situations like the ones required for the dry sump oil pan block..

We also just ran our new re-designed firewall plate... Like this one better because we can mount our fuel distribution block..


http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/...n/IMG_1857.jpg

All it takes is a camera Bry. Sholdn't be a problem for a baller like you...:D

Thx Guys...:cheers: Cris and company get all the credit. Oh and Motown...it's time for an update! :thumbsup:

Those parts look great I especially like the block off plate with the distribution block.
Ron I'll get on that right now.

Good stuff Cris. Love those headers.
Ron, you're in good hands. Should be a killer car.

The headers came out nice...

Thanks Ron!

Welcome Bro...:cheers:

Nice new jewelry for the engine bay! :thumbsup: