Lance, you've got a lot more knowledge on this then I do and an actual set up to stare at. With that being said....In my mind, articulating the axle does not seem accurate, we used to do this with 4wd suspension but we were looking for clearance and droop. Finding a point in which the 4 link binds with everything disconnected may not present everything you need to see...does it travel that far with CO's and sway bar in place? What about chassis/body flex and forces applied on the mounting points?

I'm paying attention and do appreciate you sharing what you're learning!

:thumbsup:

I'm sure it's not 100% real world dynamic, but it's a start.

Think of it this way though, if the suspension is binding with everything else unhooked except trailing arms and a watts link, just think how hard it is going to bind once weight is on it and sway bars, springs and shocks are all hooked back up again. Talk about stiction...

We've been working on this for a while trying to come up with a reasonable answer, and we'll get there. I just saw an opportunity to share a visual demonstration we don't usually get to see and had to go for it.

I saw the FB post and read through the replies, it's a great conversation amongst friends. Could you achieve a lower roll center by changing the mounting points and not adding the watts? It seems in the video that the watts is what was hanging up the suspension, unless it was adjusted all the way to the point that it wasn't doing much of anything anyway....just thinking out loud.

Keep on keepin on!
:thumbsup:

Yeah, bunch of good guys I have for friends...all just trying to learn how to make our cars better together.

I guess you could rearrange the uppers to help the roll center, not sure how good you could make it though and even then it would still be a fixed roll center, not adjustable.

Why go through all the trouble of rebuilding the rear suspension and not make it as good as it can be? I'm more in the clean slate frame of mind since I know I'm redoing it all anyway.

Bye-bye backseat!

Oh that ship sailed a few years ago already...

https://photos.smugmug.com/CAM-East-..._edited-X2.jpg

That's a nice clean back seat area there Lance. :thumbsup:

That's all I got. Carry on with the Basher. :)

Well, this just got more interesting that's for sure. Keep us posted, Lance, and good luck.

Thanks guys... It's good to have goals...especially when it's single digit temps outside and everything is covered in ice.

Spring will come soon enough though, so time to get cutting soon.

It'll be interesting to see what you come up with, Lance. I wonder how much lighter the car will be without that shag carpet.:peepwall:

That CAM legal carpet is pretty light... :)

Just an update to let everyone know I'm still around... :)

Life has gotten in the way of all things car related for the most part anyway. There have been several planning meetings with Doctor Ron and we believe that a solid plan is now in place, but the timing of putting said plan into motion has changed. It'll probably be mid summer now before I get the plasma cutter (and Visa card) out...but in the meantime Barney is still pretty much race ready from last fall minus a few preventative maintenance type jobs. Feels pretty strange not tearing the car apart in the off season, first time ever for me.

I did get to hang out with GW and a few of his car friends in Phoenix a couple of weeks ago and that was very cool. I also have several friends deep into off season car projects that I'm trying to help with and stay involved in so that helps to scratch the itch.

Meanwhile it's mainly been about house projects...both fixing up the old house and looking for a new house, both of which are very time consuming it seems.

Just wanted to say "Hey" and let everyone know I'm still around and watching... :peepwall:

Great to hear from you! Dr. Ron spoke highly of you in the seminar I attended last October. I totally empathize with you about "real life" interfering with your "want to's". Look forward to competing with you sometime in the CAM Challenge or Pro Solo venues. A/G bodies rule!!!!

Yep. This build is the inspiration for Montel, the Slow Sedan that we're doing.

315's square, turbo'd L33, 4L80E, 9" rear.

Thanks for wiping out my bank account. :trophy-1302:

I like this thread! Keep it coming man, nice to see a G-Body build.

LOL... That's precisely why I'm retooling right now and keeping my powder dry. Upgrading to 18" wheels and a locker last fall wiped me out for a while and the next round of upgrades are even pricier.

Just signed up for Track Night in America at Heartland Park Topeka in April, that makes 3 road course events I'm registered for so far this season, two are away trips also. Starting to get that itch... :whistling:

Thanks! The turning point for this car happened when I bolted on my set of TQ shocks... Some day I'll get them back in for some of this upgraded Secret Sauce I keep hearing about.

Thanks!! Did Ron also make fun of my cup holder during the seminar? :D

I "may" try to make CAM East in Grissom this year and maybe the Invitational in Lincoln as well, will have to see how the rest of my life gets along between now and then.

Yep, he sure did. Said it was the hardest part of the build.

milt

It's been a while since I've updated this thread...mainly because there hasn't been much to update on. Life has taken a front seat lately and Barney has been relinquished to the back seat for now, it's all good though...many updates are planned and in the works once my schedule relaxes a bit.

I did make an upgrade to my crankcase ventilation setup which worked wonderfully, it's detailed here https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=54712 and I also added the Chad Ryker GoPro external mic mod just in time for my first time out on a big track in almost a year.

Last Thursday I went to the SCCS Track Night in America event at the freshly repaved and reopened Heartland Park Topeka road course. What an awesome event...if there are any TNIAs near you, I highly recommend attending if you can. It's a great value mainly designed to get noobies acclimated to running on a road course but also gives veterans a place to play on the cheap as well. We got (3) 20 minute sessions in on course for $50...can't beat that.

The car worked great, this was my first time on a road course since adding the locker, big rear springs, 18" wheels and of course sticky RE71s and the changes were noticed immediately. I did have to spend some time knocking the rust off the driver, and could use some more of that apparently after watching all my missed shifts in the video. I think my shift rail has finally reached the point of needing some attention, I seem to struggle to find both 3rd on an upshift and 4th on a downshift. Coming over the top of a blind Alpha 0 hill at 130 mph at end of front straight may have contributed to my missing of the 5/4 downshift a few times as well... :D

The catch can worked awesome, the engine didn't use a drop of oil nor miss a beat and I LOVE the microphone mod... Check out the video of my last session and turn your speakers up..



I spent the first couple of laps trying to keep up with my friend Keith...unsuccessfully, once he got away I settled down and got a few good smooth laps in. I have learned (at least on this slick new pavement anyway) that these RE71s are slick when cold...have about a 2-3 lap window of goodness...then slowly go away again as they overheat. I don't remember the Falkens having such a narrow window of goodness...but the extra fun laps of stickiness make up for that I'm certain.

I spent last weekend at the Midwest Muscle Car Challenge stretching Barney's legs on the Putnam Park Road course and the concrete surface at Terre haute airport for some autocross. While we had some weather to deal with all weekend long, we still had a blast and got lots of seat time in.

Here's a little clip of the video I took while Ramey Wormer of UMI was riding with me on track. Not only were we broadcasting on facebook live during the session, but after Ramey was describing a better tactic for me to use in the upcoming hairpin turn...he decided to answer an incoming phone call while we were out on track! It was freaking hilarious!!



This video was taken during the 3rd session in the rain, so we were only running 6 or 7 tenths at most...but it was still fun to stretch Barney's legs with Ramey in the car.

This video was taken during the 2nd session when I ran my best laps. The first lap is a 1:23.672, 2nd is a 1:24.875 and my high speed was 122 mph. I'm still learning the new setup under the car along with the new tires and especially when to take full advantage of them during a run session.



This video shows my best couple of laps in the 4th and final session. I ran very similar times, middle 1:23s but the car was low on fuel and fuel starving on the straights (you can see and hear it nose over about the start finish line) limiting me to about 115 mph top speed. That just shows how much faster I was getting through the turns in that session.





The next day we autocrossed... The day was cut short by weather, only 3 dry laps in. Here was my best which put me right at mid-pack something I'm pretty proud of considering the competition.



The car still needs some help, there are some big plans for the future...I just need to get some other priorities lined out and finished first before we start on Stage 6 or 7...wherever we are now. Huge thanks to Ron Sutton for helping me get it this far, can't wait to see where it goes next.

Anyone who knows Ramey personally would not be surprised by this in anyway... that is the best part :D

Lance,

As always, good to see your updates and your track vids. :thumbsup:

Lance,

Cool videos.Is there any plans on going bigger with wheels & tires possibly 315s around?

Mike,

Naw, I don't think so. That would involve major sheet metal surgery and flares and this is too nice of a car for that. I believe we can make better gains by fixing other parts of the car that don't involve destroying the stockish appearance it has.

Finally figured out how to export my Midwest MuscleCar videos at Putnam from Solostorm with data overlayed on them. This first lap was my fastest lap of the weekend (1:23.684) chasing Keith Lamming... Check out the sustained cornering Gs and top speed on the front straight.

https://youtu.be/g09r7HZAdks



This lap was a 1:25.501 but if you look at the top speed on front straight it was about 7-8 mph slower because the car was fuel starving coming on to the straight. The rest of the segments were faster than the fast lap above.

https://youtu.be/JjRT9c0Zyl8





I did a little prep work on Barney this weekend and he is registered to race at Heartland Park Topeka next Sunday for the SCCA autocross there. Big plans are getting closer to happening with the pending sale of our house...hopefully will be able to show some parts soon...

Meanwhile...we wait...

Just got back from CAM East where Aaron Oberle and I wheeled Barney all weekend. Here is my update post from facebook for those that don't do facebook...



Finally caught up and have fully reflected on last weekend at CAM East. What a fun event... I know everyone has their own idea of what makes an event fun for them, this one just seems to hit 100% on all of mine. It's a great mix between a super fun and fast, yet still very technical course, a FANTASTIC group of attendees and people that put the event on, and just the right amount of fun mixed in yet still very competitive at the same time. Even though Aaron and I in Barney didn't have anything for the top drivers in our class...we gave the mid packers everything we had and by the end of the qualifying runs Sunday morning, I made it into the Challenge which was a first for me. I am so glad that I decided to go.

It was very cool to see so many of my distant racing friends (family) again, it's amazing how even though you may not have seen someone for a year or so, you start right back where you left off the last time. You all are good peeps for sure!!

Barney is wounded...but still left all he had out on the track. I have to say thanks to the Ron Sutton Race Technology tuned suspension and especially this weekend the RSRT locker which kept both rear wheels pulling all weekend long. Pretty sure there will be a few more of those installed in some other cars in the coming weeks. I worked course on corner 5 and there sure seemed to be a lot of mad posi units by the finish of every run. If anyone wants to know more about the locker, just let me know.

Here are my last three (and fastest) runs from Sunday morning. The third was a 44.5XX which put me in 14th out of 28 cars I believe in class. Watching these back along with other driver's videos, I know there was a 43.XXX for us out there for sure...that just shows why the really good drivers are always at the tops of the charts.



Can't wait to do it again, we'll be back locked and loaded ready for the fun and the competition this event provides.

Results from Saturday here...

https://dk1xgl0d43mu1.cloudfront.net...pdf?1502571663

Hey Lance, I sure would like to know more about the locker. I have read some people complaining about some posi units being too Loud for them. I know you like to drive Barney on the street yet, how is the noise level from the rearend in the car? What springs are in it? Sure sounds like you are liking it at this point.

The locker noise is subjective I think, some might think it's unacceptable for a street car, others might not even notice it. I have Ron's 40# springs in mine. During street driving, you will notice it clacking a bit when turning while backing up mostly. Once under way going forward, it really doesn't make much noise at all. You never hear it engage and only once in awhile will you hear it disengaging when entering a slow turn in a parking lot.

Driving wise on the street, the only thing I notice is every now and then it'll kind of pull one way or the other just a bit, never enough to upset anything....it's just something the you notice about how the locker acts just a bit different than a clutch or other type of posi.

On track, it acts completely different than a regular posi...and it makes more noise too. I still haven't figured out why the noise level varies, but when the locker disengages on corner entry, it can be anything from unnoticeable to a clang loud enough you think you dropped a driveshaft. I believe it has to do with how much tension is built up on the mechanism just before it releases and whether there is compression or acceleration input onto the pinion. If you are steady state when it releases or accelerating just a bit...it's not a big deal, if you are decelerating under engine braking on turn in when there is lots of grip (like on concrete) it'll bang pretty hard. You can clearly hear it in some of the runs in the video above.

Regardless of all of that...if you want spool like traction on corner exit with a diff that will also release for easy cornering on street or track...this is the ticket.

Thanks, Lance.
I think I can deal with some noise for the increased performance. I definitely prefer it to smelling burnt rear gear oil or even having to change out a smoked posi unit.

This upgrade is something I should have done a long time ago. Getting the rear spring rate and ride height we wanted...along with the preferred shock travel meant having no preload on the rear coilover springs. In fact, at full droop there was about 4" of gap between the top of the spring and bottom of retainer on the shock body. It got to where I carried a rubber mallet with me and if the rear of the car had been lifted, I'd smack the spring on the side to seat it again on the upper retainer.

This caused some wear on the shock body itself from the spring rubbing it when not fully seated (among a couple other issues also). So when I pulled the shocks off to send them back to Ridetech to get re-valved with the latest Ron Sutton Secret Sauce valving this week, I decided it was time to fix it properly.

BTW, HUGE kudos to Bret and Jeff at Ridetech and Ron for getting my shocks in, repairing and re-valving them and back out the same day!! Really appreciate you helping me with my limited time table to get this done.

On page 183 of Ron's new catalog are RST # 7750-A & 7750-B shown here, a spring divider and take up spring.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._143933-XL.jpg

http://www.ronsuttonracetechnology.c...alog/?page=182

Here they are installed on the car with suspension at full droop.

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._153247-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._153253-XL.jpg

and with weight fully on springs...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._153436-XL.jpg

No more carrying a hammer with me to reset the rear springs into the perches...or damage to my shock bodies.

And stay tuned... I'm working on a plan for a MAJOR upgrade being put in place to happen very soon... :G-Dub: Hopefully get things rolling early this week...

:peepwall:

Well. Do tell. What's the plan?

GREAT!!! Glad to hear you're ordering a Track Warrior so I can have someone to play with!

I thought you were moving to AZ? Or, is this before the move?

Woah woah woah there big fella...not ready to break the news just yet. ;)



HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! :innocent:


We are moving to AZ...soon. Going to try and get this job done before the move.

I won't tell anyone. Promise.

Stop... :D

I am getting email notifications of a BUNCH of tracking numbers heading my way!!!

:popcorn2: :G-Dub: :flag2: :ups: :cheers:

How many boxes does it take to have everything from page 65 of Rons new catalog shipped?