Wowzer, what a pile....:bang: There is no way that thing should have been on the track.

The good news, if you can get it mechanically sound, it's the perfect candidate to beat the snot out of and appears to have a solid chassis.

Welds track warrior
 

Greg,
It takes a lot of effort to do these things now a days
I am about the same age as you and know this well
I have been thinking that for the last several years myself
Not feeling well does not help but your mind is still working
to figure this and that out but sometimes the body can not
keep up to all we really want to do

It has taken me a while to figure it out that if it stops being
fun to do because of deadlines or too much all at once I just
push it off to cut the stress etc.. We have nothing to prove
and we really are doing this because we enjoy it

The thing I like about the cars if you need a break you can
just walk away for a little bit... I say a little bit because we
really cannot leave them alone for very long (our sickness of
having to play with them)

Hang in there buddy.. you will be back at it shortly and if
anybody can figure it out I know it is you.. just sorry to hear
about you and Ron

Bob

I withheld commenting on this as long as possible--I actually lost sleep over it last night. There are serious legal issues here, but with the evidence present, holy crud. In most parts of the United States, you can by a pretty darn nice house for $200k. That thing represents a serious lack of . . . patience.

It sounds like somebody didn't realize that baffling must be in place in valve covers, especially with a serious dry sump system; without baffling and a legit catch can and breather setup, you have a valve cover-based oil fountain. Not only is this a bottom level mechanical f-up, it's a massive safety hazard. We have guys here who work on oil rigs who've undoubtedly seen bad oil-related incidents (massive fires) first hand . . .

Air flow--somebody should have taken a look at the TA2 ducting system for the radiator setup . . . or a Corvette.

Best of luck in getting this sorted. Hopefully, it will serve as some sort of lesson/cautionary tale for those who wish they could pay for such a thing.

One day at a time Greg. Invite some buddies over to work on the car and see if you can find some enjoyment in it [beer]. I'm Canadian, so if I'm helping I'll just bring my own! [the good stuff]. Seriously though, try and step back and review what will bring your stress level down and follow that path. I always enjoy reading your posts and views on life.

I too have been reluctant to comment. I like both parties involved but, in my opinion what began as a cheerful, good faith effort, was overcome by the realities of trying to build a complete, finished race car (a prototype of sorts) in an unrealistically short period of time. I certainly feel Greg's pain and he has fulfilled all of his obligations in this contract. On the other hand, the most important part of the car (the chassis and suspension) seems to be rock solid and is the basis for a very fast car. There are perhaps design issues that need to be dealt with (airflow for cooling, for example) and Ron needs to work with his suppliers to sort out the engine oiling and cooling issues. He owes these things to his customer. The body is your typical aftermarket piece that needs 2 months and $10K worth of work to bring it up to Greg's standards. Proper bodywork was not possible in the time allocated for the build, so it got a hurried, cheap wrap to make an appearance at THill. Unfortunate, since it gave the impression of a less-than-professional effort. The car really needed another (or perhaps multiple) test and tune to work out the bugs - not at a NASA competitive event. Hopefully Greg and Ron can work out an equitable solution that will benefit both. Best of luck.

Pappy

In so many ways I am sad to read this post. A person's car, expectations, physical / emotional / mental health, not to mention safety, rise and fall with these builds.

I hope all parties can find a way forward to a resolution and internal peace at some point.

Mostly, I hope Greg is with us - keeping our heads and hearts straight - forever.

Thanks Peter!!

Hey -- back in the day --- like 44 years ago -- I used to run to the border and bring home a carton of Export A's.... LOL and some 222's !!

Moosehead FTW !!

I'm no longer stressed ---- I've let it go ---- now just having some fun burying the SOB so he can't do this to others..... my new "life's goal". A man needs goals.... this one is a bit easy but what the heck. He hung himself -- I'm just sharing the lynching so we can all live and learn. There's usually more to learn from things like this -- than if it'd been all perfect.

EH!

That's good to hear! It's just a pile of bolts in the grand scheme...

Make the best of it my friend!

“Moose head for the win”. Come on now, let’s keep this thread serious. Rolling Rock FTW

Yes Greg and Ron have worked out an equitable solution --- HE and all his friends are FIRED.... never to see this car again. His name and any and all association with him are zero'd out. Zero F's given. Pappy -- I hope you're not just another victim. Because it sounds to me like you're still a Sutton fanboi. You would not be if you knew all the dirty sordid details. And you should be on the receiving end of the texts, PM's, and emails I've recieved. YOU would have a much deeper understanding of this guys business. It's worse than you can imagine.

I've said that about many many projects --- They can all be fixed. I'm in a bit of a hurry... perhaps... and all know why. Makes all of this all the more painful. I've got plenty of skills plenty of money plenty of friends willing to jump in and help....

The car is in Cali --- my friends are all over the world.... it takes TIME to make sh!t happen.... and then it's WINTER..... and perhaps a season thrown away. For me --- winter --- skipping possible dates --- fussing with fixes --- is all a giant drain on my energy and at any moment -- that hour glass can be empty and there's not a dang thing I can do about it.

In the meantime --- I'm working on fixes and who's going to do what..... it ain't over til the fat man drives this POS and it all works as advertised.

Hopefully you'll continue to update this thread, as solutions are reached for the various issues.
e.g., I got a Peterson dirt late model oil tank, to try to deal with the projected venting problem: http://www.petersonfluidsys.com/drys...ecial-DLM.html

This thread is a goldmine of information for the rest of us with trackwarrior projects.

I will for sure my friend! You know -- I've got nothing else to do but blab with my friends all day --- and we'll learn together -- what I know - you'll all know. It's how roll. LOL I'm not the wizard behind the curtain -- I'm like the dumb tin man and the heartless lion.... and we're going to take care of this in the end

Curious about this. I learned more practical knowledge reading Ron's threads on here in 1 week than I learned in 15 years of reading books/internet and building myself.

So I drank the kool-aid hard. But I had a reasonably positive experience with Ron Fall 2016. I ordered a suspension design workup. He told me up front it would take a while so I waited and he did deliver after a few months, and then I had some changes and he did an update for me fairly quickly. This was a workup using his basic philosophy but somewhat constrained as I was adapting it to an existing chassis. When I could get him on the phone he was very very helpful. And every part I ordered showed up fairly quickly, although I didn't order anything too exotic or custom (I built or sourced those myself because I am impatient and experienced). So overall It was somewhat positive, but after 20 years at this hobby I'm also very attuned to certain subtle and not so subtle red flags, so I was glad I wasn't too dependent on him.

The car drove better than ever when I was done but I 've been burnt out for some time and I sold it before it saw serious track time (I need to write that thread).

However I still feel like his suspension design and philosophy make total sense so I'm very curious if others dont' feel the same way. Dusold certainly seems to have had success with his design.

NO --- MIKE DID EVERYTHING OVER AFTER TWO COMPLETE FAILURES.... I've been texting and on the phone with Mike just today over it. We're also cancer buddies..... He has nothing "Sutton" on his car. When he said he would tell about it -- Sutton threatened to sue him. So they agreed to go their separate ways.

ME -- I say HEY SUTTON -- you know where I am --- SUE ME ASSWIPE..... I'll own your house!

Thank you Greg

I feel that the design and performance of our subframes and chassis are the top of the Line. We did all the design EXCEPT the geometry on the front suspension, which Ron did and I think you are starting to see some pretty well built competitive cars out there now. we all know how long these can take to be completed.
This whole thing is sad
If any one has any questions about that subject i will do my best to answer them as fully as I Can.

What failed on Mikes design?

The suspension did work great on your beast, yes?


Full disclosure:
I purchased a “Full Frame, Suspension & Cage Design Package + TRS & Brakes”,
on 4-30-2014.
I have experienced poor communication at times,
Wrong (non fitting) parts, and long delays.
But—
Ron has always been up-front about being slow on reply’s and deliveries,
aways came up with solutions as problems came up,
and made good on issues with parts.
Yes, it’s taken a long time,
To the point I lost interest in the project for some time.
I still feel Ron’s knowledge, and ability to produce a great handling chassis, out of the box, to be a great value (for me).

But my situation is very different,
I have far more time than money.
I just paid for a design (and expected a few bugs),
not a turn-key product, within a guaranteed time-frame.

I've been working with Jay on a torque arm for my Torino since maybe March. In fact I think he figured out the hard part, I just sent pictures and measurements. He has everything under control, I am not concerned...

I am still a customer for this system even though I have only put a down payment on it. My health degraded this year, daughter is getting married in a few days, allot of things have changed in my life.

Count me in on believing on your business and products. Nothing in the thread would sway me, and I am pretty sure none of it's intended too.

Hopefully I will be fulfilling the order in January (when I retire) and am healthy again. I've been keeping Jay updated.

I am really looking forward to the purchase, and there are allot of people in the Torino community waiting to see it installed. Well maybe not FE Rob so much since he has the RS stuff, but I know he's rooting for me. Someone has to finish a Torino on here :lmao:

EDIT:
By the way of all the rear suspension vendors not one has followed through to help me until I spoke to Jay W.
Not a single vendor was interested in helping me with a custom torque arm. I talked to them all, not kidding.
That speaks volumes to your company and it's dedication to the community. I have spoke to them all and was ready to just get some shi### leaf springs and move on with my project.
Thanks,
Joe T. from Fort Collins, CO

First off, sorry Greg that you have to deal with all this bs, especially with everything else going on right now. And thank you for bringing all these issues to light.

I have been through this before (but much, much smaller scale!) with a previous forum member/vendor and his C6 subframe that I had to basically trash and start over. Which stalled my project big time and I just had to step away from it for a few years. I only own a Sutton Front TA and rear GT frame section so far, but no suspension pieces yet as I am buying as I go along.

My personal experience with Sutton so far has been good, but seems every time I check this thread, things seem to get worse :/ I hope he gets things straightened out quickly. But now I need to figure out how to proceed with purchasing the rest of the pieces I need.

Anyway, the car does look pretty badass in the pics! It seems like you have a pretty good base to work from and I am sure you will get the car where you want it, just unfortunately more time and money than should be required. Thanks again for putting this out there.

After talking back and forth with Rob all weekend, I’d say you’re a pretty patient man, Greg!

If there’s any good news, it’s that you have a ton of friends in the industry, and a handful of them have very professional shops that can get you and the car back where you’d like to be!

Now if I may, I’m going to give a shameless promotion for a friend and say that you need to give JJ a call when it’s time to get your car back out on track!

Greg,
first of all i'm sorry this happened to you
second, i'm sorry about the friendship gone sour
I am shocked, surprised and saddened.
I do not like excuses. My car got screwed the last two years because of two bad subs, the work was good (well, very very decent), but i missed out on so many events.

Like ELO said in that song when they sang backwards, "You can rewind this music, but you can't rewind time". Thats what truly hurts....

cheers my friend, see u in Utah. 5 weeks(ends)

Greg,

I don't really know you, but we most likely share some friends in common (I worked for GM as an engineer).

I feel for you after reading your experience. He put you in a tough situation. I think you did the right thing.

I am originally from the Sacramento area and raced circle track on a well respected team in the area. I'm not completely surprised by your dissatisfaction. I had heard some things while working/racing. I believe his latest venture is at least his 2nd or 3rd attempt at something. So I don't believe your experience is limited to the circumstances. Kind of makes me feel bad in a way also for not saying anything, but you can only do so much based on your experience with someone.

I'm sure you will get the shipped turned in whatever direction you choose. I hope you stay in good spirits and health.

P.S. Not trying to dog pile, just meant to reach out in support.

Woke up this morning feeling pretty good about finally shooting this asswipe in the head. Slept all night and never thought about him or the car.

It's just a car -- I have others -- and this one is a series of simple fixes. Takes some time and costs some money. I'm not worried about it, or me.....

WHAT I WORRY ABOUT IS YOU GUYS --- and the "vendors" that can/could take fallout -- and that's not right. I can afford this financially. My time is a separate issue, and unknown, and we don't dwell on that.

I want you guys to go out and BUY FROM THE GOOD GUYS out there --- support them -- there are MANY!! The SpeedTechs and the RideTechs and the UMI's and pick a name...... Don't let one bruise destroy the apple..... switch your orders from SUTTON -- call your credit card companies and reverse the charges -- get angry - warn your friends - post crap on his Facebook or Instagram....... and then move on --- support this site and support the great vendors -- bring your troubles to the surface and lets help each other to move forward.

I can assure you if you're waiting on a "tech support" call from him for months and months --- or that crap part that didn't fit or was welded wrong.... don't wait for a SUTTON fix -- there are people and vendors here that will help you. Call or email 'em and move forward with them. They'll all know what's going on and I know most all of them personally --- they'll pick up the phone and call you back and ship on time.

Here's something of interest -- I'd have never thought about it. My buddy Basher wants a Butler seat -- SUTTON tells him "5 weeks" --- He (schmart little feller that he is) calls Butler -- they say "7 to 10 days". So if you're waiting on something from the dickhead ------ call the actual supplier and ask them.

Wow this derailed quick. I always enjoy reading though your build threads, Greg. Sorry this happened to you.

Reading though all that happened and remembering the Prodigy problems from a few years ago two things stand out to me with both. Both parties talked a lot about how wonderful they were and how awesome their work is all the time. Something you don't see from other builders that seem to have very few problems like Iron Works, Roadster Shop, Speedtech, ect. Their builds always speak for themselves. The other thing I noticed is both advertised free tech support just a phone call or email away and you didn't ever have to buy anything from them. How do you have time to get anything done if you're doing that?

It actually didn't derail quickly --- it started for me on June 28th..... with a sh!t show of epic proportions...... and THEN the emails and texts from victims started showing up. And in fact --- it SHOULD HAVE STARTED long ago -- but I was blinded by the OLD YELLER car..... and it's success. When I go back and review ------ I'm on a text train with 6 other guys -- for 5 years or whatever it's been ---- PK never got specs etc for his 3 link set up -- still waiting for this simple info -- Gaetano got bad shocks and bad info -- Rob bought parts - that didn't work correctly and was supposed to get the parts to make them work right -- took MONTHS..... and I got the shaft.... that's 4 out of 7 --- the other 3 saw this train wreck coming and alluded to it -- but the rest - like you guys walked straight off the cliff like lemmings.

I don't like being a lemming. I will fix it. It being the person responsible.

Sorry to read of everyone’s troubles.

On a lighter note having never met you Greg it was entertaining for me to put a voice to the face while watching your video. Greg, you don’t sound at all like I had in my mind... :lol:

Take care and I hope you are back up and running soon,
Don

What a sad state of affairs that we're reliving the Prodigy debacle again!

First off Greg sorry to hear this happen to you, and thank you for bringing this to light for others.

The positive news is you still have the 65 and depending on how things are shaking out on the big car lets make sure to get some events lined up this year together..

Black Friday Laguna is 102DB day!! and then October at T-HIll

or if you want to do a track rental day let me know I'll pay my $$

Secondly the whole automotive industry lacks integrity. The sh** that's been pulled on my personal cars for years makes me sick.

In my professions you would be out of business quick but somehow these leaches and cockroach shops continue on robbing people.

Case and point I went to the "classic car" specialty shop in my town to have FI-Tech installed on my Nova. It's not difficult and time permitting id do it myself. I get the car back with what was described as "light detonation" and the Fi-Tech needs to learn. I jump on the gas and holy cow I got a full rattle can of marbles under the hood.

I take the time to investigate I pull the disti which needs to be locked out (it's super simple pull disti, flip the advance to lock out and remove springs etc). I take it apart nothing was done. I call the shop that did the install and ask them point blank did you guys lock out the disti per the installation guide. Their reply of course we did.. a straight lie to my face and that was the last time they ever saw my $.
The Fi-tech was adding timing onto of my mechanical advance of 18 I'm lucky I didn't loose a motor it shot up to 50+ all in advanced.

Nate

A little more to it. I sent Ron my measurements and inquired about a seat the first week of July and it took weeks to even figure out if my Sasquatch like figure would fit in a “tall” or if I needed a custom build. Once it was determined I needed a custom they had the money the following day.

The ONLY reason I didn’t cancel the order was Butler already had my dimensions laid out and we’re moving forward...it’s a slow part of the season for them and they were on top of the order in a matter of 4 days- 2 of those being a weekend. Kudos to Butlerbuilt!

After this seat and bracket deal I’m done with RSRT.

And another issue since I’m coming clean. The call to Butler was suggested by a friend who will remain nameless...mostly because I can’t come to grips with giving Dave praise for anything 😂

Thanks to Greg I’ve met some really, really good people from this site, folks I consider good friends and I’m pretty sure have me going in the right direction most of the time.

🇺🇸🦅

You do know how fast I can change that....... right?

Uh yea, duh.

But why would you? I’m not a liar or crook and only an asshole most of the time. Lol

Fixed it for ya......



:lmao::buttkick:

Blake you have nothing to worry about. Speedtech turns out nothing but high end, quality products. Additionally the customer service is second to none. Speedtech has a solid reputation that was earned by doing things right.

Speedtech equipped cars are dominating the autocross course these days proving the product works, is well built and dependable.

That’s it, the wedding that was never on is definitely off!

:sieg: :lol:

Fake vid, His normal voice actually sounds like tiny Tim.

Vendor/member feed back thread is a great place on lat g to post recent or current transaction experiences.

Describe and Rate any recent or current transactions good or bad and it can serve as a resource for those lat g members about to engage in a transaction.

Transparency is always good and it gives the vendors or members an opportunity to rebuke or fix any problems that may have occurred vice versa - tough part is to post even after getting burned but doing so just helps everyone else out so kudos to Greg for doing so.

My limited experience with vendors has left me top notch transactions with dse and forgeline - highly recommend both to all

Really sorry to hear you are dealing with this Greg. Messed up deal, REALLY messed up....Hope you are able to get everything sorted out in a quick manner. Your question on "I don't know how a guy could function or sleep at night knowing he's done so many people wrong. Amazing to me -- I'd have never ever thought it!" is a great question. THANK YOU for standing up and getting this experience out there in hopes others may be saved from dealing with it themselves.

I have a plan for Dirt Missile...... Leaving tomorrow to drive back to Cali (12 hours) and drag her to a few more hours for a full damage assessment.... Motor comes out and goes back for full rebuild after 30 laps.... don't care if it's hurt or not - I suspect every square inch of the car now..... did I get what I paid for.... are they really the parts as spec'd.... is the suspension worth keeping or is it scrapped for "more normal" or graft a SpeedTech sub to the front now... IDK -- but we'll find out and just move forward ASAP.

Thank you to ALL OF YOU - (and you know who you are) - that have come forward with advice, and support... THIS IS THE REAL COMMUNITY WE HAVE.