I don't do calm very well. But when i do, i jump for joy.

I hear what your saying though...as i've been trying to "average in", i'm just looking for those fundamental changes we've spoken about in the past....

cheers, mike

I’m not sure if anyone has suggested this maybe they did there are 600 pages. I also don’t know how much money you have to play with. With all that being said try to buy some property and rent it. My rentals bring around 10% return. If you have some free time and a little more money get into flipping properties/condos etc.especially if your handy. I’m sure you are because your in this forum and a lot of diyers are here. That obviously requires more money. Also unless you are in Kansas short term like less than a year. Do Not Rent. Buy a property for you to live in so you are not just throwing out money in rent. Better to pay your mortgage than someone else’s mortgage. Buy something that needs some light work like updating bathrooms or kitchen. Put some lipstick on it and your free time. When it comes time to sell maybe you will make 50k. There are also ways you can get into flipping while not using your own money. Easiest way is you get an equity line of credit on your home or your parents home (once you find an actual property to flip that’s the hardest part) doesn’t matter the interest rate as long as you can borrow enough to buy and renovate then sell. Within 6 months (depending how long Reno takes) you will have that line of credit paid off plus some extra money on your proceeds which you should use for the next flip.

Think of it this way, money opens doors for you to make more money. That’s why rich will always get richer and poor will always get poorer. Never let your money just sit in a savings account or IRS or mutual fund because then the bank uses your money to make themselves richer. Use what you have saved up. I’m sure in Kansas there has to be properties that are 50k. Maybe you polish that terd and make it move in condition and make 10-20k

Mike, Jim Cramer was banned from trading (stocks) years ago. He had a hedge fund and did . . . typical hedge fund things, but got caught; he is an entertaining and knowledgeable guy (TV personality!), but he's telling you (literally) yesterday's news. Sites like Motley Fool are paid to pump stocks (by writing crap that makes them sound appealing), which leads to buying in the midst of a (sometimes institutional/insider) dump. CNBC is designed to sell advertising, itself, and services, like all TV.

With easy "information," you get what you pay for, which is nothing. Read Benjamin Graham, maybe some George Soros, and use the education features that come with trading accounts you can get through companies like TD Ameritrade (or others) for free. Try a book like Trading (or Investing) For Dummies--it sounds offensive, but the information tends to be pretty good. Most books you'll find at Barnes and Noble on investing, however, tend to be junk. There's some decent content on YouTube . . .

No doubt, i hear what your saying. I just want to keep up with fundamental changes of the larger companies we invest in. Like new products, or change in leadership, etc etc....
I, like many of us here, very much subscribe to the Peter Lynch (One Up On Wall Street '87, head of the Fidelity Magellan fund 80's and 90's) school of thought. "If you like it, or theres a line, buy the stock/business"

KISS

thanx for all your feedback, appreciate it, mike

I like Motley Fool.. but with some caveats.

They seem to have two lines of web fronts.

Option A.. is using Cramers name all over pump and dump articles. It's click bait.

Option B.. Is a podcast that generally just gives a state of the union on the market for that week (report on earning calls etc). They also have a subscription option that they have a variety of profiles that has stock picks selected. I don't see how that could be viewed as pump and dump as they show you buy date / buy price / and if they sell etc. I've know a few people that just do option B and buy the same day and sell the same day and they have had a nice return for many years.

Remember please -- the basics -- you don't need Motely TOOL --- or CNBC -- or the wall street journal. If you think you do -- then you've misread everything here.

Interesting
 

Great read --- guy retires at 34 with 200K "passive" income... passive being -- it's not EARNED income == so taxes for the most part are going to be very favorable....


https://www.businessinsider.com/how-...-estate-2018-8

Today is a CLASSIC example of why it's so wrong to attempt to "time" the market....

If you've been holding WALMART --- you just picked up 10% gain....

This is exactly what happens OVER TIME..... but you have to be a holder (not just this name) to ride the big jumps....

Of course -- if you're not really an "investor" -- then you'll be out when things go great and in when they suck.

Remember -- in many cases - your leaders will change!! I've had a loser in ETP for a very long time - it went from hero to zero when oil tanked..... but now -- is a gainer again. YEAH -- it's tough to hold while it's glowing red... but overall -- I believed in the original thesis... "they have the pipes" -- oil and gas flow thru pipes. Not trying to sell it -- just trying to use this as one example.

Nice boost for MCD too.

I'm only up 62% in MCD. wish it was more lol.

Long haul.

Still having fun buying and selling melted sand. Cept' for the people..:bang:

WATCH HOUSING FOR EARLY SIGNS OF DETERIORATING ECONOMY or for strength -- ditto AUTOS.... these are early "tells" for the consumer. The consumer is 2/3ds of the economy. Everything lives or dies based on "sentiment" -- and what folks feel like going forward. You don't buy a house or new car if you're not "feeling it" -- so check your own pulse first.

I hear ya. Loud and clear.

Whats the other 1/3? government being the majority of that portion of the remaining 33%?

The way this country is headed -- with more and more losers waiting for handouts --- the government (which is really US!) is probably 50% by now.... and that's why you can't buy as much as you really want to! LOL

Any tips for paying a mortgage early?

I have been reading about Home Equity Lines of Credit (HELOC) and "Velocity Banking"

I was skeptical when I first read about it, but after running the numbers

So as it stands we have a 30 yr mortgage (payoff in 2046) and are paying "3.875%" interest and if we change nothing will end up paying $135k in interest

After running the numbers with a 4.5% HELOC and using 65k for that Velocity banking scheme, we will pay it off in 2025 and only pay 40k in interest (both on the HELOC and Mortgage)

Thoughts?
Opinions?
Advice?

The only CON I can think of is the variable interest, but my calculation has the interest rate going up in a curve with max .45% increases and .20% decreases

Have you factored/calculated the interest deduction benefit on your tax return for each year?

What about the opportunity cost of that money being spent to buy down the mortgage? That answer is different for everyone, but you should consider what you would do with that money if you didn't pay it off.

Personally, unless I am sitting on Weld type of cash.... I won't pay off my 3.75% 1st mortgage early. I'll invest that money elsewhere.... or buy cars/car parts. :D

Right now is the last time you want to get a variable rate on your primary residence in my opinion. I've seen many get caught with their shorts around their ankles doing just that.

No way I'd refi or have a HELOC or any other "extra" loan on my house....

You have a great low interest rate.... if you choose to save on your total interest paid -- just pay additional on the principal only when you choose to. That way you don't HAVE to pay anything extra -- or if you want to you can pay one extra payment each year and cut that 30 year to a 20.....

Altria (MO) pays over 5%.... just to pick one super simple investment...

I'd invest in almost anything over paying that mortgage rate down.

Thanks for the advice guys.

I just have a hard time wrapping my head around paying 170% of the loan I took out

luckily we were able to put a giant down payment from the last house we bought/sold (got lucky and bought after the recession bottomed out)

I have calculated the tax deduction, but generally come out ~1-2k above the standard deduction

It would just be awesome to be mortgage free

but like pointed out, we have a low rate and that variable interest scares the hell out of me

Fixed rate is the way to go in these times. It's the main reason the current RE market is on pretty solid ground (although near or at the peak) all things considered.

Do not forget about the time value of money (TVM) when it comes to long term financing. The primary residence interest deduction is just a little icing on the cake.

Don't let these guys talk you out of paying your house off. It comes down to your own risk tolerance and goals. The majority of Americans should shoot for a free and clear by retirement age.

Epic Facepalm alert...

Like Greg alluded to, if you can't put your money into something and exceed a 3 or so % return (his mortgage rate MINUS a little for the net interest deduction) you are either math-deficient or unwilling to put a little effort in.

Hey, it's your money... :)

:action-smiley-027:

Make extra payments on the principle. It’s just that easy and there is zero risk...

Don

Hey, I'm not saying it's a bad play, but it may not be right for him.

I've never met one person with a paid for home that told me it was a mistake and I've met more than a few. Not everybody is looking to conquer the world and all the trouble that can bring. Some like a simple life with little risk.

Plus, you need a much higher return than 3% to make the math work. I don't know what it is, but I'm guessing 10+ percent to make it worth the trouble.

Bottom line, having a paid for home puts you in a very good position to have choices and security.

Your 10+% guess is wrong. Way wrong. LOL

But I don't disagree that it is not for everyone. Not everyone has the risk tolerance to leverage and make their money work for them.

I don't think anyone would argue having a home free and clear - I know for damn sure I wouldn't.... but I'm also RETIRED.....

I think my point was that he should NOT do any fancy financing schemes to try to gain a little... and perhaps put himself at risk.... WHEN it's just so simple to throw extra at the principal.

His rate is under 4%.... fixed 30 years. You have any idea how good that could look 10 years from now? OMG.....

There are more ways than you can imagine to be SECURE and comfortable than to simply have no mortgage... and in fact -- I could argue endlessly why I would NOT want to be mortgage free prior to or even after retirement. That is all based on your ability to generate income.

People worry about their mortgage so much - they fail to realize that they NEED LIQUIDITY. A home isn't liquid if you get sick and lose your job... and having it paid for won't help you one bit when you have to take out cash or refi - when you don't have income or other assets.

Instead -- What I'd suggest is to cut your mortgage interest paid by adding extra payments to principal AND investing in other liquid assets that can be instantly and painlessly accessed should you need to.

In other words -- if you owed 100K and you have 200K in other cash based assets.... I'd say you should not be worried about making the mortgage payment. And you can borrow cash on cash for a hell of a lot cheaper than ANY mortgage should you need some.

I'm doing the one extra payment per year thing to cut my 30 year mortgage down a few years. That alone saves a good chunk of change and it is very easy to do. I recommend it so long as you have your rainy day fund and retirement savings funded as well. As already mentioned, I wouldn't play games with this using different accounts.

Tell me what it is Obi One Kenobe. :mock: Or do you want me to Google it for you? ha

Everyone loves to say they don't mind risk...... right up until they lose their ass.

lol... :lol:

I didn't give a specific number because there isn't one. Your personal tax rates and investment vehicles would dictate what the number would be. Unless you are being taxed at 150+%, it is not 10%.

Try to keep up. :lol:

Still love ya Todd. :cheers:

As you know, there's risky business and there's calculated risk.

Nothing in life is guaranteed.... except your kids getting diarrhea and puking after an international vacation. :disgusted::badidea::wacko:

At this stage of my life, I abhor risk...and do everything I can to avoid it at any cost. Hence why some keep telling me to have a much larger mortgage than I am comfortable with.

Pretty sure I'll be filing a 1040EZ this year...and I'm VERY okay with that. :peepwall:

You're full of &&&& too. :D

You'll have to tell me what I'm trying to keep up with? I'm simplifying and delegating every chance I get. More and more equals more bull**** to deal with. I've had plenty of that in the last 20 years. I'm headed for the simple life, my friend. Hope you are well...

You're retired, right Lance? I don't blame you one bit. I don't want a big mortgage when I retire either.

Not sure who is telling you to have a bigger mortgage then you're comfortable with, but they suck. :computer:


Who isn't full of SH%$ around here? :lol:

I just assumed you graduated from Investing 101 already.... my bad. :lol:

All joking aside, what is clearly illustrated in this discussion is the fact that we all have different situations.... different risk tolerances... and our differing ages and earning power drives a lot of these things. And that's why it's an Investing 102 discussion I guess. :)

I am happy whatever you are doing is working for you.

You are still without a cool car so you currently suck. :action-smiley-027:

Well, I'm kinda retired... ;) I'm not working a 9-5 anymore but I still have to do things to earn a living.

Mainly it's those that would rather have my money working for them while working for me that make suggestions such as this. Thankfully I quit listening to those types a LONG time ago.

I have three cool cars, they are all paid for. :D

My strategy will stay similar. I like a small to no mortgage on my primary, invest 15% of gross income into retirement (half into vehicles I can access like individual stocks or an index fund to give me flexibility for opportunity), and take advantage of the real estate cycles. Try to buy low and sell high with investment properties when the numbers are great and the market is pessimistic. This is what I know and I'm content with where it got me at 41. Get rich quick, hardly, but I like the view from the tortoise. I don't have the desire to start over if I can help it.

The hot rods are paid for (of course) but the 2 daily drivers still have a loan them -- why? Because the rate is 2%! (Same theme - I can make more return on that money in a bad year).

Hey, just because Dave Ramsey is scared to death of debt (due to his previous Bankruptcy) doesn't mean you have to be. :mock:

Not all debt is evil or crippling. It's a tool in the toolbox.

Keep on truckin buddy.... :cheers:

How do you think I've bought the 11+ properties I've owned? Using other peoples money. I read Rich Dad/Poor Dad as a young man. You aren't pulling the wool from my eyes. That's a big part of my financial success.

This reminds me of a good buddy in Phoenix. He always told me that he hated money in the bank and he leveraged it all out. He did extremely well and then went broke in 2008 including losing his primary residence. I'm talking from baller status to zero in no time flat plus a BK.

I know you are likely more conservative and have far better income stream than my buddy, but poor economies do come and so do bad streaks stocks and real estate. We've all been flourishing and riding a giant wave for a long time. Sounds kind of familiar.....

https://image.flaticon.com/icons/svg/25/25297.svg

:yes::yes:

Bummer about your buddy. You shoulda had him call me in 2007 .. woulda told him to sell his RE like I did. Greed is a b!tch.

Rich Dad / Poor Dad was a decent read .... in sophomore year of college. 😂

Not sure I’d consider myself a conservative investor, but we’re a dual income family now and my wife’s niche is like death and taxes ... it knows no economic cycle. So that’s nice.

While a 30-40% drop in local RE values (or rents) would suck in theory, it wouldn’t cause me to lose sleep at night. We’re not very leveraged.

We also drive 12 year old and 5 year old vehicles. So no baller status here.

I think you guys are hitting on a few good points that people often over look. Debt has been talked about here before but I'd wager a lot of people, for whatever reason, put their daily drivers in the "necessary debt" category and I disagree completely. My Tahoe is a 2006 that I bought two years ago with 135k. I'm looking at buying another toy that's less than 15k and at minimum 15 years old. I won't carry debt on them. My fiancee's Fit is a 2010 model that's long been paid for. Car's today are very reliable for the most part. Buying a used or older one for cash frees up so much money to be put into assets that actually appreciate. No car any of us are going to buy and use as a daily will appreciate. Unless you can write it off for work/taxes, it's costing you money. Finding ways to minimize that cost is great. Apply that same perspective to areas of your life where it's relevant and see how much more money you suddenly have available. I just think a lot of people aren't willing to truly be honest with themselves concerning what they really need to spend their money on. If they would, I think they'd be better off financially.