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Thanks again guys! I am pretty happy with the direction that the car is going in now.

No cup holders, no stereo, no E-brake unless you count a block of wood, but a good possibilty of side windows.

Sieg, I do miss the thought of 4 doors though

GW, I want you to make that East coast swing a reality..just make it next summer so I can participate.

Watts adjuster will be through the back window, the Accel link adjuster will be behind the passenger seat.

Ihave been holding out on the pictures for some time, so here are more of the front down bars and dash bar.

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...psieihjdla.jpg

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...psmsckwdlp.jpg

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...psdpnyozqq.jpg

decoupled seriousness going on here.

Wow, very nice progress! !

Oohhhhh

Ahhhhh

This will generate some tilted heads & furrowed eyebrows.

:)

OK.......now this thread is becoming XXX Rated.

Who are you going to hire to drive this Beast?

:underchair:

Someone faster than me...want the job?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton (Post 600034)

Oohhhhh

Ahhhhh

This will generate some tilted heads & furrowed eyebrows.

:)

Started already:y0!: ...still trying to figure out how that wizardry works

Almost like looking at an Audi's front suspension

Nice thing about that set up is you can run a ton of anti squat.....if you are into that kinda thing.

Ive been trying to talk Guy into this set up for years. Maybe 4 or 5 more of these pop up and he'll cave.

In the simplest terms...

On a conventional 3 link, as you move the top link down in the front, creates more forward bite on accelleration. The further you move it down and forward bite increases, it effects corner entry (decelleration) making the car loose. So you are limited to how much forward bite you can put in a conventional 3 link.

By adding the top bar (decel link) in a decoupled 3 link, you can tune/maximize forward bite/grip with the accel link (bottom link) and not have the loose problem since the top bar is controlling decelleration/corner entry.

Ron Sutton can explain it way better than I can, but that is it in a nutshell

NEED........ MORE........ TRACTION.......

Oh! Wait! Just crank on this thingy right here..... EEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHAAAAAA

Very Very cool Payton

Payton's back ...with a vengeance-;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince@MSperfab (Post 600049)

Sure would be fun to put one of these together huh Vince. :cheers:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Payton King (Post 600057)

I think you hit all 3 links with that explanation Payton. Really Awesome build. :thumbsup:

Too Funny Skip!

So just like about everything else on this car. The place for the fuel cell was made to a dimension that no off the shelf fuel cell would fit. We also did not like that there was no protection for the cell in the event of a rear impact.

The rear section was cut out and re-made.

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...pslp6ujdgw.jpg

One of the benefits of living in Charlotte is all of the used NASCAR parts as previously stated. I picked up this used can for $50.

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...psmnoj7xig.jpg

$50 for that?? That's Petty theft.

That was punny. LOL

DG-Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Payton King (Post 600203)

That was punny. LOL

DG-Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Its just cause your project is looking better than all the other ones. :action-smiley-027:

going together quicker too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Payton King (Post 600203)

DG-Don't hate the player, hate the game.

I hate the car... the game... the player... everything... :lol:

Still wanna do a sale or trade? I didn't think so... :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 600218)

I hate the car... the game... the player... everything... :lol:

Still wanna do a sale or trade? I didn't think so... :D

Lol!

Going together nicely Payton. Where do you intend to run this car?

Will there be any of that foam or other material to prevent fuel sloshing put in there, Payton? I know nothing about a NASCAR fuel cell. I just figured there would be something in the tank to help keep the fuel around the pump.

Car's looking good as always now that it's in capable hands.

Looking great Peyton :thumbsup:

What's the capacity of the can?

Quote:

Originally Posted by WSSix (Post 600229)

That is just the protective case that the actual cell fits into. Either foam or rubber blader.

http://www.atlinc.com/pdfs/Racing/AT...log-Page14.pdf

Plan on running the car everywhere I can. Carolina Motorsports Park is 1 hour from here, Road Atlanta is 3, VIR is 2. I am close to some nice tracks.

...But it will be tagged for the street too! Vanity plate "ECBMF" East Coast Bad Motor Finger

I can get an out-of-date NASCAR bladder for $200. Per rules they can only race with them for 3 years, but they are good for 10 to 15 years. So as stated above, will have a bladder along with foam. Will be using a CTS-V pump with the help from Carl at Vaporworx.

It is an 18 gallon cell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Payton King (Post 600252)

VIR is 2.

Are you really that close to VIR? I would have thought almost double that time!

What are you towing with? ;-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Payton King (Post 600252)

LOL... if anyone's car is a little bro to the other... it's me to you!

So one CTS-V pump is good enough for 800 hp? I know jack about the LS EFI stuff..

Great Build And Congrats On The Truck

The truck is a BEAST.... your wife must be proud. :lol:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 600278)

The truck is a BEAST.... your wife must be proud. :lol:

Around here those are known as prostetic enhancements.

:underchair:

Hey Guys!

For those not familiar, this is an offset, decoupled three link. The reason to offset the top link is to counteract the torque transmitting through the rear end housing.

With all 4-link, centered 3-link, truck arm, torque arm, leaf spring style rear suspensions there is a significant amount of torque steer. The friction of the bearings & gear mating surfaces in the rear end cause power loss ... in the 7-12% range. Due to the friction drag, that 7-12% power goes into rotating the rear end housing down onto the left rear tire & up off the right rear tire. This causes uneven tire loading. The LR tire gets 7-12% more loading ... and therefore 7-12% more grip ... than the RR tire. This causes cars to have more grip on the exit of LH corner & less grip on the exit of RH corners.

With a 3-link ... if we offset the top link to the passenger side the correct amount ... we neutralize the torque steer. When done correctly, the car now has the same torque applied to both rear tires for even grip on corner exit, regardless if LH or RH corner. We can't do this practically with other styles of rear suspensions.

The decoupled part is ultra bad ass. Because it is the only rear suspension version where we can have it all ... almost.

In all 4-link, centered 3-link, offset 3-link, truck arm, torque arm, leaf spring style rear suspensions ... the instant center (swing arm pivot point) defines the anti-squat for corner entry handling & corner exit handling. If you move the instant center to increase anti-squat for increased corner exit grip ... you are affecting the corner entry handling ... the opposite direction ... moving it toward loose handling on corner entry.

With any 3-link or 4-link track car, we're typically adjusting the top link(s) down at the front chassis mount ... bit by bit ... to increase grip on corner exit ... until the car starts to get loose on corner entry. Then we adjust the front of the top link(s) back up just enough to not be loose on corner entry. It is always a compromise between corner entry grip & corner exit grip. This is the case with any rear suspension model, except a decoupled version. FYI: There are decoupled torque arms, but they don't have the advantages of the 3-link. So I only focus on decoupled 3-links.

With a Decoupled 3-Link ... we have a dedicated top link for acceleration & a separate dedicated top link for deceleration. For short, we call them the "Accel Link & "Decel Link".

The Accel Link only loads up under acceleration. You can see the blue bushings in the Accel Link photos. Under acceleration, the top of the rear end housing rotates back & pulls on the Accel Link ... and compresses those bushings. The instant center formed by that Accel Link determines the anti-squat ... and therefore the tire loading & grip ... on corner exit. Under deceleration, the top of the rear end housing rotates forward & pushes on the Accel Link ... and releases the load on those bushings. The shaft inside the Accel Link "free slides" forward on deceleration ... to the point there is gap between the bushings ... and therefore no load on that link.

Under deceleration, just before the load is fully released on the Accel Link bushings ... the load is engaging the red poly bushings in the Decel Link. Under hard braking, the top of the rear end housing rotates forward and compresses the red bushings in the Decel Link. The instant center formed by that Decel Link determines the anti-squat ... and therefore the tire loading & grip ... on corner entry. This is completely independent of the Accel link.

Under acceleration, as the top of the rear end housing rotates back & pulls on the Decel Link ... this releases the load on those bushings. The shaft inside the Decel link "free slides" back on acceleration ... to the point there is gap between the bushings ... and therefore no load on that Decel Link.

It sounds complicated, but frankly it is pretty simple. I'm sure whoever came up with the original idea had sleepless nights figuring out. But once it is installed, it is simple to tune ... and bad fast. We typically set the Decel Link at 12°-15° uphill (to the front) and start with the Accel Link forming its instant center directly under the CG of the car.

I love this next part ...
Set the Decel Link as close to 15° as packaging will allow ... and forget it. From there we tune the Accel Link for optimum corner exit grip with no concern about how it affects the corner entry ... because it doesn't.

Tuning:
Need more corner exit grip? Place a 1/2" ratchet into the top of the adjuster cone you see in the photos & rotate clockwise to lower the front of Accel Link. Adjust it until you have optimum corner exit grip. If you go too far (getting "greedy" I call it) the car will push on corner exit. Simply turn the adjuster counter-clockwise until the push goes away. Easy-peasy.

In summation ...
In my experience, the offset, decoupled 3-link is the ultimate track car performance rear suspension. It allows the optimum grip on corner entry & corner exit, no torque steer & no impact on mid-corner handling. No other rear suspension can do all that. But there is a down side. It rides rougher on the street, as the poly bushings in the Decel Link add spring rate. I have some clients that run this set-up as a simple offset 3-link on the street, and swap in the Accel & Decel Links for track days. The 3 bolts & swap takes about 10 minutes.

IMHO this is not a suspension for most ProTouring cars. For 95% street use, little to no fabrication and keeping the rear seat ... I prefer a Torque Arm or Triangulated 4-link rear suspension. If done right ... 3-links, Offset 3-Links & Offset/Decoupled 3-Links are for hardcore cars that prioritize track performance over everything else. But these require professional fabrication, roll bar or cage & eliminating the rear seat.

:cheers:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Payton King (Post 600020)

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...ps52kgs3xs.jpg

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...psxql8iqis.jpg

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...pseqjp1jp0.jpg

http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...psiket4ik7.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton (Post 600283)

The decoupled part is ultra bad ass.

Bringin the tech!! :lol:

Seriously Ron, this thing is so wicked cool. Thanks for bringing it.

:cheers: