It makes me sick to see all this going on. You go with what's supposed to be the best and have the same problems a second time that could have been avoided. I hope this next plan goes better and quicker then it has gone so far.
Drive safe and keep us in the loop.

Greg,

Don't forget the "baby and bathwater" scenario with a hasty reaction. A 1:53 (in the correct direction) by a Porsche GT3 was an extremely fast time at a recent NASA event. Your car could have run that, even with its growing pains. You recently said this in one of my threads:

"I'm not a suspension "guy" --- frankly -- I could care less about it. I have a guy that knows a guy that knows a thing or two about that stuff.... so I can keep my pretty little head as empty as possible...."

and Blake posted this in this thread:

" I feel that the design and performance of our subframes and chassis are the top of the Line. We did all the design EXCEPT the geometry on the front suspension, which Ron did and I think you are starting to see some pretty well built competitive cars out there now."

I'm not being a "bois" - just pointing out that Ron is a master at suspension geometry, and if you are going to make changes you need to make sure you get advice from someone as equally qualified - or you will could up with a slower car. Just my $.02 worth.

Pappy

Pappy ----- ONE (of the many) epiphanies I had trackside this last weekend ---- there were 200 cars there -- all running hard and fast and having fun. I had a crew of 4 -- So called Masterbaiter -- so called car builder -- so called mechanic and so called electronics man..... EVERYONE ELSE WAS RUNNING JUST FINE....This group couldn't get 3 laps per session and not make other sessions.

The thing that makes me smarter than the average guy --- I know I can build - maintain - run - set up - adjust -- with other guys. There's no magic in this. It's not new. It ain't even special. What it will be going forward - is sans bullsh!t.

IN other words -- there's zillions of people that know more, and will be in my corner at the drop of the proverbial hat.

Let's start a list of seeing hands --- I pay $3,000 per weekend plus expenses.... all you have to do is be honest - have a clue - and keep your mouth shut about "me, myself, and I".

Greg, when is the 2019 track tour starting?

I told Rob I'd make a couple tracks, and I want to see you lap him in the Dirt Missile.

😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳

We would all like to see Rob get lapped by the DM.
Greg has cameras so we would get good view of it happening.

Greg,

I've been lurking on this thread and watching this build.

Thank you for stepping up and sharing your experience with us.



Merritt

It's started when I dreamed up this concoction!! Ordered a new truck from Rydell -- worked on designing a new trailer so I could haul us both.... Rob started on his comp license as did I..... and then I stepped in dog Sh!t.

So we're waiting on The Mayo clinic to tell me I'm done or that I beat this **** again - or something in between.... and then it's game on or we're all going to my funeral. Racin' or pushin' up daisies...... Semantics.

You'll get through this, Greg. You are way to ornery for this to get the best of you!

Pappy

A candle that burns real hot -- can light the way -- or be used to burn your ass, if you tip it over.

Right now it's in burn the house down mode.

Then rebuild.

Wow this build and thread went in a direction I never saw coming.

Does seem like Prodigy all over again.

Kinda hope it all works itself out and thats not the case.

This year did suck for you guys. You stepped in dog sh!t and Rob's dog stepped on his eye. You better be able to lap a half blind man. Hoping next year is MUCH better!

I just noticed Rons vendor section is no longer there? Sad if he goes silent and doesn't try to repair all of this.

Are you going to post in the feedback section Greg so others don't have to search for this information through your car build? It would give Ron an opportunity to resolve this if he was going to. I still can't believe he's gone silent this long.

Ron Sutton Race Technologies was removed as a vendor by Lateral-G.

Was he removed as a person from the site as well? He's been a ghost since this all came down. Not even ONE post trying to defend himself. Guess that goes to show his character.

Sometimes even your best intentions aren't rewarded.....







No I'm not --- since nobody else did either - and that's EXACTLY how this crap gets perpetuated. I've done enough heavy lifting.








Maybe he's busy shipping and catching up? Let it play out.

He still has a regular user account... his vendor status and ads were revoked/removed.

Lap seems like a big ask. I don't see it happening. Even out of one eye. :popcorn2::popcorn2:

IDK about Prodigy that was theft, but it's worse in some very personal ways.

The betrayal of commitments made to Greg and the lack of respect for Greg, as a friend battling a terminal diagnosis, should make anyone, with a soul, sick to their stomach.

Greg was providing a platform for Ron to showcase his entire business. Remember Greg was not just a customer but a friend who payed all the bills forward. Does everyone realize that capital and the ability to generate Cash flow is paramount to getting a business off the ground?

Imagine if you had a friend willing to help you catapult your business forward and didn't ask for anything more than the product you were selling; At a price higher than what you would eventually sell that product for; NOT a discount.

You'd screw that friend over by wasting some sand in his draining hourglass right? Makes me want to throw up thinking about it.

On one hand Greg makes me want to believe there is good in people.

On the other hand after watching Gregs scenario play out (and some dealings with a few friends on the forum have experienced; not theft, just disrespectful treatment of them) Ron reminds me to put my trust in my dogs.

Everyone on here is an adult. Decide for yourself who to do business with and take care of your own issues like an adult.

I had been following this build and even asked a few questions along the way because I thought I could use the info in my build. I haven't dumped $200K into my '69 Firebird, but I did buy brakes, seats, harnesses, and info from Ron. I have to say, that I am small beans compared to some of the people that Ron deals with (ie Greg Weld), but he always seemed to give me great advice and service. He even went to the lengths to loan me pressure gauges (for free)when I was dealing with a brake set up issue. He was also available via talk/text when I was figuring things out.
That being said, I am also a business owner that has to deal with online reviews. I don't get into public online arguments with clients because it looks bad and is a no-win situation for me and my business. Hopefully Ron will make things right, but I don't expect to hear much about it initially (at least on an online forum).
This build took a turn that reminds me a lot of online dating. The last woman I went out with looked smokin' hot in all of her Facebook pictures. I mean, to the point that I thought she was going to be the best looking woman I had ever gone on a date with! With much anticipation we finally met in person. Let's just say that the years haven't been good to her and all of the filters a woman can use on her pictures can work miracles!!! The video that Greg posted about the build quality of his car make me look like Chip Foose!

Rob's (FETornio) post sums up the situation 100%......

I could have bought a brand new Porsche Cup car.... I could have bought a Howe with all kinds of upgrades.... I could have bought any number of well sorted designs. We weren't forging new ground here.

Go to a track -- on any weekend there are 100's of other guys doing this and doing it faster and better.

I didn't need any new cars. I built this to satisfy two desires -- to help a friend and to get a car with a sequential. My other three cars would not tech for NASA TTU or even HDPE. Simple fixes that would take two weekends and some rattle can touch up.

I chose, instead, to let a man stand on my shoulders so he could put his nose over the wall... I chose poorly - my head told me just to order a car from an outfit like Howe - that's all they do - would have been over the top for a track day toy.... and is a proven platform..... But that didn't satisfy the "help a friend" part of this ordeal.

THAT IS NOT ALL THAT TRANSPIRED HERE ---- There's all the other folks that came forward that changed everything for me. So many people who have also had their hopes and dreams hanging on a thread - waiting - losing valuable time - crushed in many cases..... THAT IS WHEN I GOT MAD.

Trust, honesty, and my friends/family, are EVERYTHING to me.... without that - you're nothing. My name and doing biz with people means something to me. It's so much more than MONEY to me. I can buy my way out.... most can not. And I personally don't have time for phony friends that use me. I supposedly already have terminal cancer (second time doing this dance) -- I don't need "cancerous friends". And you guys don't either.

Call SpeedTech -- UMI -- BMR -- Ridetech -- Morrison -- Schwartz -- Roadster Shop - Chassisworks...... all top notch supporters here with real actual businesses.

There is no way in 2018 this should keep happening on this site.

I see two reasons why it's happened twice:'

1. It takes guts to call someone out publicly.

2. It's embarrassing to admit you got taken advantage of publicly.

A simple vendor rating system would likely go a long ways in defeating the above. Look at every major website that sells anything, they keep their vendors and products accountable. They do it for the integrity of their business and that means looking out for your members FIRST. In the long term, it rewards the good guys that are doing it right.

I agree 100% with Todd here. It may be time to change it up.

The problem is there are always 3 sides to every story. Like Greg said he was trying to help a friend just as much if not more then getting the actual car. The car was a by product of the actual end result.

The bigger problem is the education and the quality level of what is actual good enough and acceptable. We have all seen guys post work on their own car or professional work that people are having done that is posted on this site and think damn that looks rough. Or that isn't going to work and see plenty of people comment below with any emoji saying how awesome it looks when it doesn't and probably wont work or work very well. I wont name names but I got a text a few weeks before this messy situation came to light with some people questioning some things that were posted in this thread.

And In my 18 years of being in business I have learned that some times the customer can be smarter then the builder or the builder and the customer are both totally clueless. Or the customer thinks they are a big shot and know exactly what they want and think this is going to do exactly what they want because some companies marketing campaign told them it was what they needed. I have started some projects in the past from other shops that I'm convinced could never have been completed. The customer was unaware of that fact, and I wonder if the builder was just that shady or if they were just as clueless as the owner. Building a car takes alot of different things into account that have to be done in a proper order and with proper fore thought. Everything affects everything it seems some times. Some times we would have been better off to just have started over completely. It would have been less work in the end.

Greg, I know you will get it resolved and I wish more people would stand up and say what was wrong with the parts you txt me pics of and stuff. People need education. There is no reason to drag anyone through the mud further, pick up your stuff learn the lessons and move on. Dont trust a guy just because he said he is trust worthy. Look at the entirety of their work not just the smoke and mirrors. If some one has to tell you how good they are, they probably are not as good as they say.

I think it's important to note that Ron Sutton Race Technologies has also been removed from other websites. This isn't just a Lateral-G thing.

I have so many thoughts and questions on how and why this happens. I have dealt with Ron on my JRI SHOCKS purchase. I had a major issue that he could of told me I'm **** out of luck but he made good on it. I know this isn't Greg's $200,000 build . I think these guys get out of there lane and this is what the end result is . Stick to WTF you know . I use this board for a lot of info and I do ask people who they would or wouldn't use . Charley Lillard saved me a ton of money and headaches on a certain engine builder I was going to use. He PM'd me instantly and told me to run. And I did . But not everyone is going to do that . But Charley could of had great experience with this guy and tell everyone he was great then all hell breaks loose now what, its not Charley's fault ! Guess what I trying to get at is . We can't control when these guys are going to go bad . But If Greg recommended shop XYZ and it goes wrong I would not hold it against him . I understand where Greg is coming from on this matter. He is a great guy who holds his friends in high regard . I would like to hear anyone's thoughts on this I hope I made sense .:grouphug:

What blows my mind is Sutton thought the car was ready for racing. For him to think the situation was worthy of that sais a ton.

What decisions people make tells way more than that one decision.

Again --- I remind people -- this isn't about the CRAPwrap/body... that was just an easy bullet to put in the chamber.... There's so much more that's wrong.... and so many more people involved and on other sites as well....

My issues - with this car - were the tip of the iceberg.

We'll all get over it and move on. Buy from real suppliers - there's a ton of great ones.

I have thought long and hard about how to respond to Greg’s situation, or even if I should. We have many RSRT parts in common, as with many others on this forum, and have all been dealing with Ron Sutton. I’ll start there.

I met him through the forum, like most, when he first started posting. He posted up some great stuff, technical advice, and theory, that eventually became sticky forums. He was very willing to offer advice and suggestions to help improve my car and others, at the time, free of charge. This Ron I really liked, said he was just giving back.

Told me around summer of 2015 he was developing front and rear suspension clips, JRI shock package, as well as a brake system from Stoptech. Sounded really good, based on everything he had told me, and all his testing he advertises on the his website, must be a killer, proven setup. I ordered and paid for everything in Fall of 2015, with delivery to be right after the new year in 2016.

This is when I started noticing the change in Ron, it was the start of him being very difficult to reach or long delays on responses (the birth of RSRT). The most irritating thing was to have a question or need an answer and be told he’s too busy and will get back with you in a few days or week, but see him answer forum questions during this time or post on FB! I’m a PAID customer, and that should take some precedent. We had a discussion where I told him that, and he explained he just had too much going on. I understand that, but if you try to be great at everything to everybody, you’ll not be very good at any of it to anybody. Scale back to what you can handle and be great at.

So without getting into the the nitty gritty details, the rear frame rails were delivered summer of 2016, and the clip, late Fall of 2016. Almost a year from the time ordered. Still no brakes, those would be mid-2017.
There were issues with the blueprints that caused lots of work to be performed and then redone to correct. This eats up valuable time, and this is what is most irritating about the delays in response. Greg touched on this a bit, and he “gets it”. I am just a regular guy with a job. I have to plan and block time to work on my car. I don’t get to block a lot of consecutive days, but on the few occasions I have, I’ve run into blueprint issues that took days to resolve because Ron was too busy to respond. This kills my allotted time and is demoralizing to me as I build this. It just kills my motivation when i have to remove or move something that was incorrect in a print.
I’ve had issues with delayed parts, wrong parts, wrong prints, and wrong dimensions supplied to my wheel maker, but suffered through with the impression I am building a bad ass suspension car. I still believe that, because if I don’t, then all this was for nothing, and that I’m not willing to accept given the time and money I have invested in this.

We all wanted to post our issues, but none of us were done with our cars. We would need setup advice and dimensions; to post would mean a clean death as we are nobody’s and Ron was the forum “superstar”. This could have only been done by someone with clout, that’s you Greg.

Now that it is done I have mixed feelings. Where do we go from here? I hope Ron continues to support and help his customers utilizing his suspension systems (me included). I hope that all of us with builds become a priority customer. I hope he realizes what I stated earlier, "Scale back to what you can handle and be great at”. I personally have just been very frustrated and disappointed with the parts and service I paid for. That cannot be undone from this point back, but can be a different and positive experience from this point forward. Only he can make that happen and I believe it will be the defining moment for Ron Sutton, RSRT, his customers, and the future of all involved.

Guys, there is a member/vendor feedback section already.

https://lateral-g.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=71

You can have the biggest baddest most awesome feedback function in all the land... it means nothing if users are unwilling to use it and make entries.

Go back and read my #1 point. That's calling out a vendor publically and that's the major problem I see.

A simple 5 star rating system that can be anonymous. Vendors are welcome to solicit positive feedback and folks with bad experiences can provide feedback. There could be a verification to make sure they utilized the services.

Rodger, I get your point, but the cream rises to the top no matter what. The best can't please everybody, but they please more than their competition.

Paid advertisers have caused major harm around here twice, something needs to change.

My two cents, go to the manufactures that Ron sourced his parts from for tech help. I’ve been getting calls from customers friends and others in the community that are in the same situation as yourself, and going back to the original source seems to work best since it’s become pretty clear that Sutton doesn’t have the knowledge that he claimed. I’ve refrained from saying anything for a while or getting into details, but I have talked to manufacturers/distributers that have had to spend HOURS on the phone explaining to Sutton how the parts that he was selling worked... these are things he should have known if he was giving a seminar on how suspension works. Nobody should have to spend two hours teaching Ron the basics of how a JRi shock works, but that happened a few weeks ago...

Cathartic isn't it Craig....... a weight lifted - a dark secret you hope doesn't get out because it will have repercussions. "It must only be me".


34 years of AA..... best thing in my life wasn't to stop drinking. It was to be HONEST. Make amends to those you've hurt. Forget it and look forward to what you can do about "it". My amends is to try to lift up - to reach down and lend a hand just like so many people did in my life. Sometimes we just have to be honest and know we're not always going to 100% successful. It's a percentage game - reach out to enough people - a percentage will be rewarding..... some won't get it.... some you'll be honest about and acknowledge you knew they were a waste of time when you started.... You did what you should and that's all you can ever do. THEY WIN if you let it beat you down. YOU WIN when you pick up a tool and do something with it and make the dream move forward.

XOXO to all

I don't like it. Anonymous means it's not controlled; vendors can stuff the box with false feedbacks, and vice-versa. A lot of places use the five star system, but there's no way to know if it's real or not. We have feedback available and if you're not willing to put your name on it then I guess it wasn't that important.

Took the words right out of my mouth Jody.

I really debated today about starting a feedback thread on this, but this ship has sailed. I have worked with Ron since early 2016, been to 3 of his seminars and looked him straight in the eye when he told me " I was hoping to get at your calculations before the seminar, but.." I too had noticed a change. Early on it was great, response usually the same night. One on one conversation. I wondered how he could do this for everyone. There was a couple minor issues with parts that I never even brought up to him. I figured this is race stuff, get me started, and I'll take it from there. So now I sit here 8 months after ordering springs and shocks, no springs. ..waiting for calculations to determine correct rate. Luckily I have the shocks already, but that comes from Ridetech, who have been right on all the time. Maybe he will still come through, maybe I'm s.o.l. on the springs, time will tell. On the positive side, I enjoyed visiting with him, he is smart, when staying within his confines. I was able to twice tour the Ridetech facilities and have a nice conversation with Brett Voelkel, who is the most unassuming down to earth guy, ( that's a good thing)
I was able to meet David and Mary Pozzi, James Shipka, and others too many to mention. These were the good times that kept you coming back. Smoke show, or an honest overeager business plan? I don't know that is what made this one sting a lot. I think this is mutual to many. We will move on and finish our projects, just lean on the good people there are many here.

Per a few pages back “Vendor/member feed back thread is a great place on lat g to post recent or current transaction experiences.

Describe and Rate any recent or current transactions good or bad and it can serve as a resource for those lat g members about to engage in a transaction. Heck include part or service rendered and post the post sale experience/support.

Anything ordered on amazon can be rated, the vendor making the sale and the product sold. Key again is posting your feedback. Good vendors will continue to do well and so so vendors are given a chance to make good on any hiccups.

Transparency is always good and it gives the vendors or members an opportunity to rebuke or fix any problems that may have occurred vice versa - tough part is to post even after getting burned but doing so just helps everyone else out”

Greg gets a pass on vendor posting feed back - poor guy has done enough heavy lifting his back might give out )

I don't get why everyone on here is venting about Ron and their issues instead of the feedback section. When I knew Scott Mock was a joke I put on my big boy pants and my flame suit and immediately posted about him. I was a new member and he was a long term member for years here.

I knew there was going to be backlash brought on myself from disbelievers but that was expected and I knew I would have to have my ducks in a row to prove my case. Guess what, he's no longer a vendor and no longer a member.

Even after multiple people got the courage to posted up after me I still got hate messages and people asking me
"Are his frames really that bad" uhmm yes look at the pictures I posted?

Why wait years to post complaints about Ron on someone else's build thread? Why would anyone even want to do business with him still if everything that's been said is true and he burnt another member of his friendship, time and money.

Point is when something isn't right you have to man up and post it regardless of the backlash. Right is right. Help others save their hard earned money and most importantly time. Money we can all make again eventually, time we can never get back.

Anonymous to the public, not the moderators. There has to be accountability.