[QUOTE=Bucketlist2012;418934]Yes, I'll go to a shorter loan period, but not in this current house. It's a great place at this point where I still have kids at home. Upon retirement, I'll downsize to a house in a different part of the state, closer to my family. I've got that part planned out.

I do live in an area, though, where I still see people my age (and older) constantly moving up to bigger and nicer homes. My goal is to retire into a paid off mortgage. But several comments in this thread regarding not tying that money up prompted my question.

Greg .... my wife insists that she's only 29, so I've got that part covered!

That would take a book.... but I can tell you that really hitting pay dirt for us was more luck than smarts. I was a made a partner in a multi million dollar business in New York City in my mid 20's... Sold out in 1983 and moved back to the west coast... had enough money to live decently and start a new business as a wholesale distributor in the patio furniture industry and at the same time Gwen went to work @ Microsoft in 1984... when they had a whopping 600 employees and PRE IPO... My business went gangbusters and at the same time MSFT went nuts too. BUT and here's the big BUTT.... many of our friends that had MORE stock options than we had by 5 times... they've gone broke and many are back working! We stayed in our same house - and invested our windfall. One of those investments that was made more recently (7 or 8 years ago now) just rang the bell in an all cash transaction (it's public info) for 2.25 Billion.... and we owned 1% of all the outstanding shares... so once again it was luck. For us - this was icing on the cake and came late stage in the scheme of things. We went from a very comfortable early retirement to being able to do almost anything we want. Not private jet rich but set up pretty nicely and luckily at a stage of life that let's us do a few things we'd like to do.

Here's the real take away from what I've learned over the years.... and I'm talking about handling money and watching others mishandle it.

All of us - regardless of where we are in life - have the ability to spend more than we earn.

To this day I marvel at what others have... I look around and think "geezus - how do they do that?! They must be really rich!"

I've stated earlier that all our friends have second homes... we don't. They're all still working, we're not. They have "stuff" and expenses... we have cash that earns income. :unibrow:


Wealth is a variable statement that depends more on the desires of the person than the amount available in the bank.


My Mother in law lives in a great little house... 1/3rd the size of the family home which was sold after an early death of my Father in law. She's been retired since then (1983) and has about 350K invested + Social Security. She lives great and has traveled etc. Buys a new Honda Accord every 4 or 5 years and pays cash. There's the key -- owns the house - no payments - saves money even to this day (in other words she spends less than her income). She doesn't have that much income but doesn't need much either! She is wealthy compared to my parents that never had anything but had a Cadillac in the driveway and couldn't live unless I helped them every month AND I owned the home they lived in. (they're both deceased now)


INVESTING EARLY in life is the key to real success LATER in life.


If you want to live well for a long time - you need to either be really lucky (me) or be really diligent EARLY in your careers... and invest rather than piss away money. Whether that's buying a rental house... and every time you get more dough you buy another... and then parlay that into a fourplex... or you invest in a business of your own.... or you just work and pound every extra dime into the stock market...... ALL OF THESE STRATEGIES REQUIRE TIME TO PAY OFF.

You need to put yourself into a position in order to be "lucky" later. Even if this means you drive your old car for 4 years AFTER you finished paying it off... BUT you have to put that same payment in the bank every month so when the next car purchase is made -- you buy a late model USED car and pay cash and keep pounding the payment you would have been making in the bank.

Wealth - or being "comfortable" doesn't require great wealth. It requires great management of what is available and that might mean that there is some tradeoff in the "appearance" of wealth now for the real "wealth" that will come later.... when all those azzholes are still working as greeters at Wal-Mart when they're 73.... and you're sitting in your lawn chair at a car show in Santa Barbara.


I will tell you something else that I don't think can be understood but I'm going to try to put it into perspective and this is just purely a personal "how a guy lives" kind of statement.

The entire time I was in Italy -- in very world class hotels -- eating at the worlds best restaurants -- being driven around in a MBZ.... I said a 100 times to Gwen "I'd just as soon be in Willows eating Mexican food with my friends" -- and I MEANT IT.

So wealth - to me - is really more about getting to some level of life's little pleasures that you enjoy and that doesn't mean they have to be expensive or the best or the biggest - or the baddest in the universe. I'd live in a shoebox house in Wenatchee and have a used Yugo before I'd go back to work to keep what I have now. Because to me - the only thing I have of real value is my time and no amount of money can get me more of that. :thumbsup:

Dang Greg...

Great advise.


I am still working on my Wife to understand your post fully. She came from nothing, no prom, no money, nothing...

I came from a fairly nice background. My Dad was a doctor, and we had Trawler's when I was growing up. I never knew the value of the dollar, and I suffered for that greatly..

But in the end, my parents lost everything due to mis management of money.

From that I learned a great lesson.. Never to repeat what my parents did.

Over my Life , I have been luckier than smart. Sure I sold a home years ago, only to have it go up 500K in the next few years, OUCH.. But I let it go and moved on.

Now 20 years later, I am not Rich, but doing OK. Also watching and capitalizing on the Bubble from 2006 to 2008 helped greatly..Remember that I had seen the bubble before and I was on the losing end.

That loss prepared me to see the bubble of 2006.. "The past does not equal the Future.."

So, I am working on the Wife to understand why I have put XXXXXX amount of Dollars into Investments that I will NOT touch. I call it my Generator of Electricity.. Without it , I have no power. Or Income..

I have so many friends that will not listen, and want it all now.. I give them tips, and Kiplinger's , ect... and they do the EXACT opposite.

If they live a long life, they are screwed...If I live a long life, I will be OK, and maybe more than OK if I do it right..

It takes years to achieve wealth, and wealth is a relative term. Two years ago at 50, I was given my last rites on my death Bed, and had my Attorney and his Notary writing my will in the Hospital..Now that is service...Costly but needed.

So Health to me is Wealth. And having all my basic needs covered. Sure I am working on the next level because I do want more, but I will NOT risk what I have to get there.

It isn't how much you make, it is what you keep.. And what you do with what you keep, that gets you to the good life..

Great stuff Greg. :cheers:

My twenties was filled with great income and more THINGS than anyone needs in a lifetime. I really think if the booming economy would've happened in my 30's I would've made some different decisions. I made many good ones but pissed away more money than I care to think about. :lol: Had one hell of a time so I have no regrets.

Now, in my mid thirties, I'm thinking exactly the opposite. I have clients that are exactly as your describe. 60-70 years old with two nickels to rub together. They have a distinct look of desperation in their eyes. Most of us have to work a lot harder to make a buck and to me that should really open your eyes. How long do you want to keep breaking your back to sustain your lifestyle? Make the changs now. The older you get, the harder financial independence will be before you're to old to give a damn.

I like your comment about percieved wealth. You can still have nice things if you buy used and right.

Your Mother in law is a prime example of why I said you many never regret paying off your home. She's got a fixed income and virtually no bills. Where's the risk? I bet she sleeps like a baby.

I've preached many times -- about controlling the expenses -- then you don't need as much income if you don't have much outgo!!

Where most go awry is that they wait too long to start on their saving/investing. Then -- unless there's a super lucky event... they're just so far behind the curve they can never catch up.

Then there's the attitude that I run into all the time where people have just given up... or say to me... "well... I don't have 10 grand to invest". No - and they never will - because you don't save 10 grand at a whack -- you save $50 bucks a week and eventually you have $2 grand... and so on.

I've really come to the conclusion that it's MIND SET not income levels or even luck.

When I was in business --- I'd pitch a deal to a dealer here in Seattle and the guy would say to me --- well... if I could have 4 colors in that trailer load instead of 3 you have a deal. Okay then! Dude - let's rock and roll! Same deal pitched to a dealer in Portland - and the guy would stare down at his feet and say... Gee... I could never do anything like that.

Yep! You're right buddy - because you have a failure attitude! They have a plan to fail not a plan to succeed. I used to call Portland the "welfare attitude" -- they always let someone else taste all the success. Seattle dealers had the "can do" attitude -- they would rise to the challenge and tackle it head on. It's why I moved from Portland to Seattle in 1984... It was all about the attitude.

Thanks for sharing Greg. Lots of real lessons in your stories.

A truer word has never been spoken.

I always say....ATTITUDE is ALTITUDE..:thumbsup:


Bad attitude and you are with the Turkey's...On the ground

Great attitude and you fly with the Eagle's...High in the Sky.

A survivalist once said that if you put two people in the jungle and the expert has the bad attitude, and the rookie has the great attitude..The rookie will find a way to survive, and the whiner will die..

Also how you talk to yourself....If you say"WHY is this happening to me", you will find an answer to make you happy, but you WON'T succeed.

If you ask yourself, "HOW am I going to fix this or do this", you will also find the answer and you WILL succeed..

I have used these techniques since 1989.. And they work..

Also surround yourself with successful people. They leave clues to success and tales of their failures, and that will accelerate your learning curve..

Amen, Thanks Greg...

You get me motivated even more than I am, and when I share my thoughts to you guys, it just makes me better at what I do.:cheers: :woot:

Well.... we're really just blabbing... no different than hanging out at the track or in the "shed"... but to me - it's all good discussion. And frankly - people don't have enough of these kinds of discussions.

:cheers: