Having a rating system will not stop what happened here. In the past this site has removed problem vendors way before other sites. It has always been the site members over money here. I just see too many negatives with your rating system.

In that instance, I'd think the public would have just as much right to know as the mod's would. I mean, we're the ones who'd be vulnerable to spending or shall I say losing hundreds to thousands of dollars, right?

LETS PLEASE TAKE THIS DISCUSSION SOMEWHERE ELSE --- not in my thread.

The FACTS are being lost and there is little or no solution because people are afraid to state their case.


BACK TO CARS PLEASE take the backroom problems elsewhere.

Sounds good. Time to move on.

Haven't been here in years but same old BS people using the forum like its their personal phone conversation. Posting a hundred pages of a love fest and oh's and ah's of pictures when nobody can actually see the work they are commenting on. If someone dares to post an actual intelligent question regarding whats wrong they get attacked by the "Hey Thats My Friend" nonsense.

How do you end this? Easy stop these 100 page posts where people turn their builds and the people doing the building into untouchable gods. Its like reality TV I admit I read 10 pages because its interesting but after the long winded I love you fest its time to realize its these posts that are the problem. Its like getting into a group chat with the popular kid at school and having the chance to maybe get their attention.

No rating system needed just stop these personal look at me builds. You want it about the cars well stop posting long personal comments that take these builders from just that, builders to Gods.

bash away!


Projects section and maybe a Personal section where people can chat away.

Maybe another 10 years away will do you some good. Doubt it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

:hitaxeonthehead::buttkick::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao ::lmao:

Not sure what forum you’ve been marooned on for the past 4 years, but believe it or not, we are all friends over here. So we tend to “chat” like friends. And poke fun with each other like friends. And enjoy each other’s company...like friends.
Not sure why you have a problem with this. You don’t like us? Delete your account. Bye.

Gentlemen. You are all better than this. Just stop.

Not me:D

Lmao ... me either ..kick rocks buddy . Maybe go away for quite sometime and then when you think of returning ... dont

WE now have a solid do over plan for Dirt Missile!!

She's going to SPEEDTECH PERFORMANCE for Blake and the boys to make it what it should have been.

They understand the thin race bodies -- they paint in house -- they weld -- they race -- they understand a thing or two about suspension.... and they certainly understand what's NOT RIGHT.....

I've had so many offers to fix it -- and I thank all of you for reaching out and offering a helping hand. Blake et al have been friends for years.... and they're close (relatively) to us... and I know they can do the job.

Good deal Greggo!! You're in good hands now...

Outstanding. Looking forward to following the Rev1 build.

David

DIRTMISSILE 2.0



LOL



Hope I live long enough to see it run in it's new form.......

You still have to make it perfect, sell it to clill, and buy it back....



Jeff-

Yes we are!! Its all Lord of the flies up in here. Time to pick ourselves up, rub some dirt in it and move the F on.


Back to build progress, build pictures, correction details and some F#?@!ing track pictures.

well that's how it should be Greg. Go speedtech!

Greg,

First of all, sorry to hear about a friendship lost.

Secondly, I'm glad that you're moving forward to version #2. I hope that you/Speedtech can post pictures of things that are potentially wrong or mistake so that the rest of us can learn from.

Like many others, I really enjoys reading your build threads.

Best of luck to you (health wise, and on the new version of DirtMissile).

Tu

The seat is custom and bolted in..... and I purposely had the bars built for 5' 5" or less.... Lurch missed it by a full foot.

LOL

Good thing I love him.

Funny, Greg. Go 2.0!

Dirt missile 2
 

Gregg,
You can always cut bars out
I had to do that to reposition the damn seat
in the Mustang I sold to Chet.... was so far
forward originally my knee kept hitting the door
handle opening it when shifting

Good to hear Speedtech is taking over

Bob

I thought you did that to keep me from being able to record a lap time in it. :shakehead:

It will be good to see you get it sorted out and more importantly see YOU drive it. I doubt that it will be that big of a project. It has some decent bones.

Please post all kinds of pics ... you know so you can rub it in our faces .. look at me as that other guy put it . I love living thru other peoples builds and having it rubbed in my face . .... wait .. what ?! Lol

The docs gave me 18 to 24 months --- I've burned thru 7 of those already and the car is still sitting in California -- and will take a few weeks or months depending on what decisions are made and what I want changed.... so figure that burns a year..... You can see why TIME is important to me. If I can't drive it - I'd like to at least see the SOB run some serious laps and know I succeeded. Me driving it is more of a pipe dream now - just that much further away now. F it - it is what it is....

Well. You are healthy enough and capable of driving it now.
The oiling issue is a quick fix for somebody who knows LS motors.
The suspension is already more competent than you.
Just sort the motor and drive the dam thing. Maybe some additional strengthening of the LCAs and run it.

Don’t forget to cut the cowl back and vent the hood....Maybe toss a couple more sheet metal screws in the taillights so they don’t fall out, lol
What a turd! An easily fixed turd...You’ll be on track before you know it.

...... she's a turd alright! I've owned similar in the past - mostly bought off FleaBay sight unseen. They were a little less expensive than this one... LOL


There is so much more "wrong" here - that doesn't meet the litmus test.

#1 - Blowing oil out of the breather (same issue from June T&T day)

#2 - Blowing oil out of the valve cover (same issue from June T&T day)

#3 - Overheating/possible hurt cylinder already (30 laps?)

#4 - Various and many electrical issues

#5 - Safety concerns of Sutton designed "Taco" Lower control arms

#6 - Safety concerns over catastrophic failure of various links in De-coupled Three link

#7 - Body fit and finish (possibly unsalvageable)

I now have come to the conclusion that the ONLY REASON FOR A DECOUPLED THREE LINK REAR --- is to create DEPENDENCY on Ron Sutton for set up - for advice going forward - and for an escape route for him - when sh!t happens with it -- he can simply claim "you must have done something wrong".

I'm having a friend that built many chassis and raced Trans Am cars and many other types... take a look at trying to understand the pluses and minuses of this style rear. So far --- and these are not new folks, they've been around for a long time in various versions --- the prevailing view is "WHY?" -- it's been described as "BUSY" -- "adds complication and parts without any advantages" -- "failure of the acell and decel links causes catastrophic failure when the pinion is free to rotate to the sky".... in other words -- it's more SUTTON SECRET SAUCE that is mostly hype/bullsh!t and dependence building (on him).

So -- when you take your crap to the track -- look around -- see what others are running -- you WILL NOT find ANYONE running J hook LCA's and you won't find anyone else with a decoupled 3 link..... Which means -- you can't walk over to the guy 3 trailers down and discuss set up or nuances. NOPE -- you're going to have to call mister Secret Sauce -- and maybe he gets back to you and maybe he just opens his mouth and more salesman sauce oozes out. The Instructions - which just finally came out this week (people have waited months or a year + for these) -- and my guy says -- "For what it's worth, from my point of view I see a lot of vagueness in the explanation of how it actually affects the instant centers and a lot of steps that need to be tuned by "feel"."

Can you all hear that giant sucking sound??? Sorry for all of you that are in this together. We shall live and learn.

Greg if Blake needs hands for help getting that body straightened out just let me know I'll be more than happy to go down and spend a few days to help out. I really wanna see you drive this car. Your time line just hit me like a ton of bricks !!!!:(

Thanks buddy! I know you'd be first one there to help.... and I love you for that!

COOL
BTW I have a line up right now if you were to come and start on Monday we could get to Gregs much faster :thumbsup:

Front end
 

Okay ---- here's some simple pictures that ANYONE can understand.....


One is a picture of what is on DM..... a long - unsupported "j hook" design - that wants to BEND under braking (3:35 Hoosiers can supply a LOT of braking forces).... and also wants to TWIST and break that welded "eye"....



DIRT MISSILE currently:

Attachment 66688




NOW --- Let's look at the SpeedTech front design that is supported and beefy and nothing will be allowed to bend/flex/rotate..... a 4 year old might draw a little better (LOL) but it's pretty obvious there's a huge difference --- BOTH TAKE 3:35's up front --- one I'd drive and one is scrap.....




SpeedTech Extreme subframe design:



Attachment 66689

THIS is an actual photo of both sides of the SPEEDTECH lower control arm that accepts 3:35's...... Compare this to the WEAK SAUCE on Dirt Missile.... LOL Yeah that is all going away and we'll be putting this on FTW!!!




Attachment 66690





Attachment 66691

I'm no suspension expert but won't that lower control arm cause a negative caster gain? Giving a neutral or even loose steering feel? Probably a real handful in an off camber turn. The bent rear arm which if it was supported in the same plane as the front could be reinforced with a diagonal tube.

Since I have the Extreme subframe from SpeedTech now, I can attest to how hefty that LCA is.

One thing I spoke with both Ron and Roger at SpeedTech about that I liked from my previous JRS setup was the spherical bearings in the control arms. There is a lot of friction (Ron calls is stiction) when you go to move the arms with no spring/shock in place. I've thought about making a set of my own, it wouldn't be that hard. Aftermarket kits are available for the C5/C6 to do exactly this, but they are stupid expensive. You can get the high quality bearings for < $50 each (I did for TOW). 8 of them gets you to $400. But its the sleeves and standoffs which will take the machine time. Anyway, I digress...

Another thing about the ST LCA's: they are designed to go on a (typically) much heavier street car than I think Ron designs his race car parts for. That said, the race car has the capability of inflicting MUCH higher loads / stresses on components I would expect... So perhaps the higher forces of a racecar offset the raw weight of a street car. And thus this is certainly not a place to save a pound I think. (I'm rambling out loud here now...)

Good luck on the new plan. Like everyone else, I just want to see you out having fun with this or Yeller or whatever car you're driving!

Greg, the Sutton LCA setup is the same stuff I ran on my asphalt late models. I didn’t use the “fishhook” style rods, but it was a straight tube. Otherwise the same. Maybe Ron needed clearance for turning radius, hence the bend?
Either way, it’s a very lightweight simple setup, that’s not meant to hold up at all. ANY contact with another car, or a simple brush with the wall, and they went in the dumpster. I carried two sets of each side on the hauler, and would often have to change them out after practice, due to a pass with slight contact.
I really can’t believe that he used a setup like this on a car like that.
And the wiring on the missle...I’d re-do every inch of it. Looks like a third grader wired the car...
Looking forward to watching SppedTech make this car what it should have been.
Your on the wrong coast, or I’d be there today helping!
To everyone with their hands on this car...LETS ROLL!!!!:flag2::flag2::flag2:

I assume Blake will build a new set of LCAs using his design but retaining the RSRT pick-up points/geometry. Moving the pick-up points changes all of the current suspension geometry. Changing the effective length of the LCA would, for example, require a different length or repositioned rack to retain proper bump steer. The angled (not parallel with the centerline axis) pick-up points of the LCA move the lower ball joint fore and aft slightly with suspension travel, which affects dynamic caster gain, which I'm sure is a deliberate design feature of the current configuration. Moving either of the LCA pick-up points up or down changes the roll center, dynamic caster gain, and/or anti-dive. And as you point out, changing the relationship of the UCA and LCA lengths changes the camber curve. Lots to consider.

Pappy

I think it would actually be advantageous to update the geometry of what's on the the Dirt Missile to what Speed Tech is using. It really is dirt track stuff at the moment. It is either from Howe or copied from Howe, and as Mike at Muscle Rodz pointed out, I'm pretty sure the current lower control arms are actually going to lose caster under compression because they are not mounted parallel to the longitudenal centerline of the car.

Now I’m a bit worried. I have the very same chassis as Greg’s, except it took 6 months to get the LCAs & 8 to get the UCAs. One of my first thoughts was I should order a spare pair, and beef them up somehow, in spite of added unsprung weight.

we have built a couple prototype uca and lca with bearings in them. it is more work and more machining. we were going to offer them as an upgrade to the current arm but honestly other that talking it over with Ron you are the first one to mention it. so that being said does it make "Cents" out of dollars ? or the other way around