I never said M struts were the ultimate but I don't see pushrods or two valves per cyl in those purpose built cars you mention should we start chucking those LS motors? So I agree double wishbone is the ultimate set up. I have seen plenty of production cars on the track running struts and winning in thier classes against double wishbone front ends. I don't remeber the pinto front end being the pinicale of that design forum so maybe we should consider that not all double wishbone suspensions are created equal.


I had a 66 and there was a crossmember between the frame rails? My Torino has one. I wouldn't say don't run a Mustang II fron but it isn't the ultimate. I would say the best looking set up I've seen is the Griggs Racing GR350 kit for early Mustangs. It is a double wishbone with it's own integrated K member but big $$ and from what I hear Griggs isn't the easiest to deal with. Plus I was building a Torino so the mustang kit wouldn't have worked without mods.

For me the struts accomplished what I needed, didn't break the bank and no need to hack up the car.

I was just saying what ive read...seriously i have no personal experience with either setup yet...your more of a expert on it then me. BUT i do agree with some of the critics that at the very least the Mustang II should be tubularly braced from the frame rails and back into the firewall to unify it to the Unibody again. Ford never designed the thin wall frame rails to carry the entire weight of the front end. I dont know how you had your installed and how much fab work you did to beef it up...but I know ive seen people just cut the few inches of thin frame rail then weld in the strong mustang II front end...personally i would want subframe connectors..beefed up frame rails and tubular bracing to the firewall...all that would add up to be way to much of investment for what i need. But i do believe your right that the basic setup and geometry is better...but unless your installing a wide late model modular motor or something similar (and you need to room) i dont know if its worth the money unless you can do all the work yourself.

I hear nothing but good things about the Griggs GR-350 suspension. Definitly more money, but well worth it. Im running the Griggs stuff on my 67.

Well have you priced the other stuff ? I did when I did my car and its just cheaper to do the m2 setup if you want good brakes coil overs and the nice steering of a rack.

You will actualy spend about 1500 less on a m2 front ifs with coilovers and tubular arms then you will on a full bolt in system and rack and pinion conversion and big brakes to fit the stock setup.


as for what your saying about the frame rails well they arent carrying any more weight then they did with the shock towers the towers are part of the inner fender and frame rail and when you cut them out and weld in a piece to replace them the frame rail is just as suported by that piece as it used to be by the shock tower.

i used the heidts system not the martz that removes the inner fender completly

it also includes 8th inch thick steel reinforcment plating to stiffing up the front frame rails.

the marts system requires you tie back into the firewall because they put in a whole new front subframe and there is no more inner fender welded to the frame to tie it into the front of the car and fire wall.

but the heidts doesnt do that it leaves the inner fenders in place and only removes the shock towers.

if you look here you can see how beefy the cross member is and how you just cut the towers out not the whole suport of the inner fender.. once you weld in the replacment panel that is just as suporting as the shock tower was but you now have a real cross member in there to tie the two halfs together

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1...g/DSCF0290.jpg

here you can see the 8th inch plate that comes with the kit to reinforce and spread the load ont he stock frame rail

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1...g/DSCF0288.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1...g/DSCF0287.jpg

BMW still uses MacPherson struts in alot of their stuff. I'm not an expert, but I think their M3 etc. are pretty badass on the track.

A MacPherson strut suspension does not travel in a vertical plane though. It travels along the axis of the strut which is typically at an inward and rearward angle which will give some camber and caster gain.

http://www.lanciamontecarlo.net/imag...suspension.gif

I'm not trying to stir anything up, but any/all suspension setups have tradeoffs. I'm not a suspension design engineer, but I would suggest just learning as much about each and making the best choice of performance and cost for you. Someone will always be able to say well this is better or that is better, but it really all comes down the intended purpose and budget.

Another option, We have a full chassis with No bind triangulated 4 bar rear suspension and unequal length a arm front suspension, with optimum camber curve and no bump steer.
Thanks

Now that is a sweet looking chassis
 

Very cool. It all just depends on your budget.

as in full chassis do you mean complete front to rear frame rails like the Artmorrison MaxG? there is a guy on the protourin forum doing the ArtM chassis with airbags..its quite impressive

Heres the full frames Jeff makes http://gmachinechassis.com/ i have seen one of his under a Camaro it fit prefect was well worth the money the car did handle a lot better then any Camaro i drove.I have never used a mustang 2 kit or wouldn't id like to not cut on the car or do anything thats not a bolt on just in case i change my mind on it.Only early mustang i drove with one i didn't like it was a 68 fastback with a mod motor it was too front end heavy and was done cheaply and wrong.And yes id run a support bar from the front of the frame rail to the fire wall to help support the extra load on the frame rails with a mustang 2 kit.Ford designed the car for the firewall to take most of the load.I have global west coil overs in the front of my 68 mustang and if i had to do it over id use them or one of Jeff's full frame too bad no one really makes anything for the 71-73 mustangs but for 2 people most just cover the 64-70 mustangs.

I am looking for options for my 71 cougar and have found little support.