Lateral-g Forums - Ridetech four link vs speed tech torque arm rear suspension

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- - Ridetech four link vs speed tech torque arm rear suspension (https://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?t=47154)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBasher (Post 564931)

Ron I'm sure we are talking about the same car. I didn't want to mention the shop name or the company of the TA because I only had part of the information.

So if properly set up, are they silky smooth? No more or less vibration and noise transmitted up under the driver?

In most cases the type of rear suspension doesn't have any effect on NVH (Nosise/Vibration/Harshness). NVH comes from a LOT of different sources, from front control arm bushings, motor & trans mounts, steering, etc. The NVH that comes from rear suspensions is more of a function of the rod ends, joints or bushing type chosen. There are exceptions.

Leaf springs have a lot of harmonic noise going on, because they are doing three jobs ... rear axle side control, suspension link & spring. When driven hard, they "can" create some ugly harmonics that are counter productive to smoothness & grip. But during street cruising those loads are there.

Torque Arms that mount to the trans mount "may" or "may not" transmit some of the transmission/driveshaft NVH through the car. But that depends on the mounting method.

Otherwise 3-links, 4-links, Torque Arms, etc are going to be similar in NVH. I believe the decision for each car owner ... is where do your priorities lie. If the car is more of a driver/crusier ... a variety of non-metal bushings will offer less NVH. If the car is meant to be a serious performer, zero friction rod ends & monoballs will allow the suspension to much quicker reacting & produces substantially more grip. It is a compromise either way & a choice for each car guy/gal to make for themselves.

Don't confuse NVH with ride quality or handling/grip. Ride quality is primarily influenced by spring rate, sway bar rate & shock vavling ... and secondarily by suspension bushings.

Someone read my Track Handling Thread & thought I wasn't a fan of Torque Arms ... which is not exactly accurate. Because I'm a racer, tuner & looking for every edge ... I run offset 3-links in race & track cars whenever possible. Frankly, decoupled/offset 3-links if I can. This is the fastest, most tunable rear suspension.

But for multi-purpose cars, street G-machines, true Pro-Touring cars that will be street driven a lot, the Torque Arm is a great rear suspension choice. You don't have to cut up the rear floor. You can keep your rear seat. Most designs put the pick up point 45-50"+/- ahead of the rear axle CL. As mentioned above, that puts the pick up point far enough ahead to avoid problems from too much anti-squat. All in all, a great performing rear suspension.

Make sense?

Ron, every time you post something it makes sense! Greg can vouch for me when I say I don't know anything. :buttkick:

The owner of the busted TA knew he had some wheel hop issues, it sounded like he was trying some different things to get it taken care of before it broke. I didn't look to see what kind of bushings/mounts he had, just know he made mention of not the ride quality, but the noise/vibration after the change from leaf springs.

To the OP, I'm running leafs and a panhard bar with adjustable shocks. Part of this decision was cost, the other major part was that I don't have an understanding of how to properly tune other combos.

Dan

Quote:

Originally Posted by 31069ss (Post 564843)

Is the ride tech able to
Run 335 rear tires ? I'm going to be ordering rear suspension soon and I'm not really sure what to get since i have been running lowering leafs for the last 6 years .... Any help would be greatly appreciated

yes you can run 335 tires...but that's up to you, you have to mini tub you car, leafs and 4 link achieve the same result, the leaf is more violent on the track compared to a link rear system (anyone's link not just ours) our 4 link is a simple install with the least amount of fabrication, parts and welding

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBasher (Post 564849)

I talked with a guy in Portland at the USCA who was running and broke a torque arm. Besides the busted parts he had talked about some other issues with the TA that he didn't like. The biggest thing I remember was the noise and vibration, he hated driving the car after the install because of these two issues.

Nothing wrong with running a good set of leafs and quality shocks. That being said RideTech has a great track record of putting out quality parts that work.

Dan

You are talking about Keith from Custom Works, I should probably clarify and add to the info you posted. We have been looking at the torque arm that came out of the car, and have pretty much determined the cause. Keith runs Afco double adjustable shocks. the valving on them (according to Afco is a Drag Race set up) is SUPER soft and he was experiencing brake wheel hop (we never see this and even Ron Sutton who I asked for a non bias opinion said flat out "no way you should be getting any brake hop from a torque arm unless the shocks are too soft or too firm). due to the shock not being able to control the rear suspension. This in turn transferred into the torque arm and the metal was deformed and stressed to a point that it tore. we have NEVER seen this in all the time we have been building the torque arm 6 years now, you know how my Nova gets Driven.... and there have been no issues. we have addressed the issue by supplying a different set of shocks for Keith to try and I am positive he will not have the problem again.

In Talking to Keith I don't think he "HATES DRIVING THE CAR" he said to me that he likes the way it drives it is just different than his old leaf spring set up.

Drag valving on a PT Car.........:bitchslap: :bang: :D

This is why I didn't mention names, always another side to the story. Just a group of guys shooting the sh1t in a parking lot...talking about broken parts.

Glad you both are getting it worked out, looks like a well built and fun car.

Ron Sutton should start a business helping people build and tune these cars:confused59: He's everywhere!

:thumbsup:
Dan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blake Foster (Post 565079)

Yep...there is always another side to it. Its frustrating for any of us manufacturer or consumer] to become a victim of an unusual combination. As a manufacturer, who would have thought that the customer would be using a soft drag racing style valving on a autocross/road course? As a consumer, who would have thought it mattered?

I think both designs have a lot of merit and would work nicely in any car they were optimized for. This is more than just a politically correct statement. If there was a CLEAR advantage to one over the other, one of us would have changed over to it by now.

In EVERY engineering project, one must start by deciding the priority of the performance criteria, knowing that as the project goes along you may have to re-evaluate those priorities. In no particular order, weight, fitment, manufacturability, price point, tunability [and the customers ability to tune] and ultimate performance all go into this mix. Every manufacturer has their own [valid] idea of the correct priority.

Although I am familiar with the torque arm design concept, I do not pretend to be well versed on it because I have not spent years living with it. I have however raced against cars using this design. The self serving part of me wants to tout that we have always run right with those cars. The reality is that those cars have always run right with us too :)

So, which is better?

Carry on...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sieg (Post 565081)

Drag valving on a PT Car.........:bitchslap: :bang: :D

Well in the customers defence Afco did not provide any valving information or dyno sheet (from what I am being told) so it may have been hard to know if they were correct.
The shocks I sent him are Ridetech single adjustables so we know there wont be an issue with the shock going forward, if there is he can call Bret!!! lol

You guys are awesome.

:cheers:

Quote:

Originally Posted by bret (Post 565096)

As a consumer, who would have thought it mattered?

If there was a CLEAR advantage to one over the other, one of us would have changed over to it by now.

The self serving part of me wants to tout that we have always run right with those cars. The reality is that those cars have always run right with us too :)

So, which is better?

Carry on...

Lack of consumer knowledge regarding shock valving is a major challenge. I'm continually surprised at the number of people I come across that have been longtime motorcycle or car enthusiasts yet have very little understanding of shock function and valving, let alone how critical it is regarding comfort or performance. Of the two groups the ones who best understand it are the faster off-road motorcyclists.

There are numerous avenues to get to the same destination aren't there. :D

Tell me which oil is better and.........:lol: