Are you still planning on using a crate motor of some sort, or are you planning on building a purpose-built twin turbo engine?

Jody

Slow Ride,
I really am on a limited budget as well. The way I am planning this project is to do as much as I can myself in many areas so that when I do have to pay someone else I don't have to go too cheap. We'll see what we can get going here. I know the knowledge is out there.

Jody,

At this point I am planning on the crate ZZ502. I am not the type to completely disregard suggestions from those with experience however. The reason I am trying to stick with this route is because of my response to slow ride. I am on a budget as many of us are. If I can make this work, it may inspire people who would have otherwise not done anything because of cost to jump in. ATI said that theoretically the ZZ502 should be able to make 1000hp at 16psi on pump gas. I think that is a bit optomistic, but Shay did 800 with the same combo and zero modifications other than upgraded rockers. I was going to change the rockers even if I went NA. I figured change the head gaskets for a little less compression and more durability. Maybe change the exhaust valves for durability, but thats it. If I go too much further I am loosing site of the origianal goal in starting with a good crate engine. I'm just looking for some more suggestions on components, especially turbo setups. I'm sure Slow Ride would appreciate it as well.

Thanks,
Chad

Well, ATI is confused. I don't think those heads will support 1000 HP, even forced induction. There are huge gains by getting rid of them with an aftermarket Canfield, AFR, etc. on blown motors. They're fine for what the crate motor was built for though.

I wish you luck with your project, should be fun. Thing is, I never put budget and twin turbo build in the same sentence. Unless you are a really good fabricator a twin turbo setup is by far the most expensive forced induction setup there is, by a fair amount. A Procharger is much easier and less expensive, and can still make big power.

Jody

Jody,

I absolutely agree that it would not be a problem with the AFR's for example. But I can't discount Shay's/Jim's Camaro. 800HP on Pump, 937 on race gas. I believe also the 937 was with less than 16psi. Wouldn't you think that says the heads are capable? I also agree about the budget and TT's. I would however be able to fabricate the TT setup in house. The component selection is where I am still learning. Any suggestions if I want to try. Maybe twin t-61's with an A/R of .70. Is that too small for 502cuin.? I'm trying to learn in general. If the budget goes up maybe a purpose built motor is in order, we'll see.

Jody,

After a couple posts back and forth, I finally took a look at your website. Your posts are quite modest for the quality of your projects. Very nice. We are building this project for my dad who also has a 2003 HD F150. I've been chomping at the bit to get my hands on it. What were the spec's on your Arias 540? What do you think the heads on the ZZ502 are worth if I were to try to sell them. I may then be able to replace them with some AFR 315's. The other route that is possible, is a small block. I have a race prepped bowtie block. 4.060 Bore, Billet Splayed caps, Roller Cam Bearings, Bronze bushed lifter bores, Poilished and coated oil gallery, adjustable cam oiling, modified cooling between cylinders, etc. I would say a 3.75" crank, AFR cnc 220's, EFI and TT should be 1000 easy and dead reliable. But still more expensive even though I have the block. Anyway, enlighten me.

Chad

Thanks Chad. I love horsepower. :unibrow: I didn't know Shay used stock heads on his car. I do know a good friend of mine dyno's centrifugal cars all day long, and we've spoken about those exact crate heads, and how much he dislikes them for a high power build. They can be improved with some port work in the bowl and exhaust side, but he feels the money would be better spent on a better head.

An example on a naturally aspirated big block from another friend of mine picked up almost 100 HP by replacing the stock crate head with an out of the box AFR head.

I'm not saying they totally suck, but depending on your power goals they may not be the best way to go. A friend had them for a 482 ZL-1 engine he had me assemble for him, and after talking to others he sold them (brand new with port work) for $2K. They were fully ported though, and he was glad to get that out of them. He then turned around and for a couple hundred more bought the AFR's from Mike at http://www.lewisracingengines.com/pa...2073/index.htm

That small block you have sounds like a very good way to go. Easier to package in the car and 1000+ HP without an issue.

Jody

Chad, I have had a camaro with an injected ZZ 502 and I've driven the 540 Arias in question. There is no comparison between the two. My point is you may get 1000 hp from the ZZ502(somehow) but it won't last long. They get 6000hp on top fuel cars but they don't last long. Jody does like hp!!!

Just to keep things straight, if I got 1000 reliably great. If I got 800 reliably great. The key is the most hp available RELIABLY. I want my dad to be able to hit the key, turn the A/C on, put it in gear and embarrass some vettes and such. Black marks at 50mph would also be great. I know, I know now the truth comes out. If he wants to go to a track day it will handle like no other pick-up. If he wants to go to the strip he will have a 10 second ride. If he wants to go have coffee he'll save travel time. Anyway, if I go Pro-charged or TT where do you think I should limit the boost on 93? I was thinking 12-14psi with head gaskets. Would this be reliable? Where do you believe the limit is for this engine? What pro-charger would you recommend? What turbo's might be applicable? I was thinking a sheet metal intake and either Accel dfi or BS3, any comments? I don't know if you saw the canvas in the intro section as well as some components I playing with, I'll post a couple pictures. The Camaro is my toy my Dad and I did 20 years ago when I was 15. I really appreciate the dialogue guys. By the way, any idea what a set of AFR 315's goes for these days?

Chad -
A couple of questions regarding your max boost question - are you going to run an intercooler and/or water/alcohol injection ? They make quite a difference. If not, you can run higher boost (and save money) by running a blower carb on a good single plane intake versus a very expenseive sheet metal intake/EFI combo. From the tons of dyno pulls Tom Nelson did on a 540 Procharger EFI with intercooler, 15 psi on 91 octane is about the max to make power while staying safely away from detonation. You could go a little higher with 93 octane or water/alcohol injection, but you are pushing the gaskets very hard at that point. For sizing an F1 or F1R would be a good choice.