Chevelle on bags @ autocross
 

Watch this Chevelle eat the autocross, and you'll see how a bagged car can do...

http://www.v8tvshow.com/forum/index.php?topic=157.0

Anybody have clearance problems on bagged cars when trying to tuck big hoops under stock sheet metal/inner fenders?

That AirPod system looks Siiiiiiiiick!!!!!!! :thumbsup:

that 61 will hold a 22 x10 and a 19x8 on bags .

I bagged a 64 with a hand built frame.
I am now building a 62 Bel Air that will use the factory 'x' frame with Shockwaves and Strong arms, dropped spindles etc. We are going to run 22x10's and 19x8's. I may massage the inner wells and modify the mounting points if it doesnt sit low enough to my liking. But i have seen it done without modifing a thing and it looks to work fine.

http://www.hotrodsbysteve.com/projec...a/100_2128.JPG

Oh, so many things to comment on. I really should have been watching this post earlier. Here we go:

For those who don't know me my name is Britt Marolf and I have worked with Air Ride Technologies for 4 years, and directly for ART for the last year and a half. I originally worked for a custom electronics company where I was the lead on both the E1 and E2/LevelPro control systems as well as a military project. I moved to ART to continue electronics development, but also look into new and exciting technologies to further advance pneumatic suspension systems (anything from making it easy to install, AirPod; to making it better on the track, triple adjustable-remote reservoir-dampers). I am biased toward our product, and I have no remorse for being so. I didn't' move to Southern Indiana for the culture, I chose a position at this company because the product is high quality, the engineering is sound, it's family owned, small enough not to be hog-tied by corporate B.S., but large enough to allow us to have fun, and everyone here is a gearhead. A lot of days the parking lot looks like a car show. When I'm not in the office I get to drive our test cars at track days (like the link above from V8TV).

General Air Suspension Discussion (if you know air ride, skip this as you'll find this boring):
-an air spring is just that: a spring that is manipulated with air pressure
-the spring rate of an air spring is highly progressive
-the more you compress the spring, the higher the spring rate
-spring rate is increased with volume and/or pressure
-pressure/volume is affected by vehicle weight, designed/installed height, corners, etc.
-therefore spring rate is determined by what the vehicle weighs, what air spring you use, how/where the air spring is mounted
-We design each kit to optimize the spring rate for a specific vehicle at a specific ride height
-The great thing about air is you can alter the spring rate and/or altitude by increasing/decreasing air (within reason. If you go outside the designed tolerances the vehicle is either too stiff, or does not have enough spring rate and bottoms out)

2-way v. 4-way:
-Personally I would never use a 2-way system on a performance vehicle (fronts tied together, rears tied together) as the deficits are far too great for the cost savings.
-4-way provides 8 valves; 4 inflate, 4 deflate
-with a 2-way system, when the vehicle enters a corner the outside air spring is compressed while the inside air spring is in rebound, or droop. The outside air spring needs the highest spring rate it can achieve, but since it is connected to the unloaded air spring it transfers air, loosing spring rate.

Manual vs. Electronic Control Systems:
-Electronic control systems provide more functionality than manual
-allows you to change system speed, tank trigger pressures, back light intensity, etc.
-they also provide 3 presets which allow the system to automatically attain proper ride height
-Ultimately your goal is to reach the proper ride height so your alignment and suspension are correct for traveling down the road. Air pressure is not directly relational to suspension travel. It's close, but external forces, such as suspension bind, change things each time you raise or lower the vehicle. You can attain proper ride height with either a manual or electronic control system, but the electronic control is much more precise (especially if level sensors are utilized. The LevelPro control system will return the vehicle to within 1/8-inch of ride height each and every time.)
-If you are budget conscious try a manual system first. If you desire more options and more precise control in the future it's extermely simple to upgrade to an electronics package (the compressors, tanks, valves are all the same so you don't have to replace them)
***NOTE: the electronic control systems are initially designed on my daily driven test vehicle for use with either 1/4 or 3/8-inch air line and valves. Should you use the electronic control system with anything larger you may experience problems. Rule of thumb: If you press an inflate or deflate button as quickly as you can, and the vehicle moves "X" amount, that is the minimum amount the electronics can move the system! So if you have an s-10 with 1/2-inch lines and valves and it moves 1-inch; the addition of an electronics system will not slow the airflow and get the vehicle within 1/8-inch of ride height.***

Reliability:
-My test vehicle has been on the road, daily driven through hot summers and sub-zero winters (I'm from Iowa) for 60,000 miles. I have never had an issue with bags, lines, valves, etc. I change electronics quite a bit, but that's my gig.
-Many people have our systems on dually trucks pulling trailers. Last I heard Troy was in the lead with over 400,000 miles on his.
-Electronic failure rate is 0.03%.
-When was the last time you saw a semi broken down on the side of the road because his air brakes or air suspension failed? We use the same high quality DOT approved parts they do.

Performance:
-An air spring is just a spring
-Generally speaking, any vehicle will perform better when the center of gravity is lowered, and more spring rate is provided
-An air spring does have an advantage that, by design, it is has a more progressive spring rate than a steel spring. The more you compress, the greater the rate. This is not a linear curve. The spring rate graph of an air spring looks like a take off ramp used by Freestyle moto-crossers to do back flips.
-Shock absorbers play a huge roll in a performance application. They are simply a timing device. They control when the tire leaves the pavement, and when the tires are contacting the pavement. Adjustable dampers are a key part to building a performance suspension.

Bad94: Issues with E1 system:
I'm not sure who you spoke with, but you must not have reached my phone. Your issue is a ground problem. I can see in the pic my advised solution is not implemented, so I would imagine the problem still exists. If you wish to fix this please let me know and I'll do whatever I can to make it work as intended. ([email protected])

I apologize for the long post. If you've made it this far, congratulations you've passed Pneumatic Suspension Systems 101!
If you want more information regarding any of these areas, please let me know and I'll continue my rant.
-Britt-

That's some great info, Brit - thanks for posting.

I have a question - we've experienced an unpredictability in cornering response because of the non-linear spring rate of an air spring. However, I went for a ride in your silver Mustang with Bret on an autocross track, and that didn't display any unpredictable mannerisms that I could detect. What's the trick to controlling the spring? And please don't just tell me "adjustable shocks"... what about matching spring size to vehicle weight, what type of adjustment do you want, what about sway bars, etc.?

Thanks!

- Kevin Oeste

Kevin,

What vehicle is experiencing this problem? What air springs are being used? Is it our kit, a different suppliers kit, or something "home grown"? What do you feel when the problem occurs? (is it leaning too far, is it rolling over to a point then pitching the car, etc?) What shocks are used? Sway bars? Stock arms or tubular arms?

Sway bars are also a big part of the handling performance. Too little sway bar and the vehicle wants to roll, too stiff and traction becomes a problem.

Suspensions in general are a combination of compromises. What works on one car, may not work on a similar car. Beyond physical suspension parts, this could be due to driver preference. This is why I love the adjustability an air suspension system provides.
For example: Brad and I drive in a lot of the auto crosses and road courses we attend. Brad is very aggressive, and loves the skinny pedal. . .fast in, hard on the brakes, turn, hard on the gas, tail out smoke flying. I'm a little smoother, and more fluid. . .fast in, hard on the brakes just enough, trail brake, ease in throttle, on to the next turn. I prefer a car that is not overly stiff; one that tends to roll over a little more as I try to carry more speed through the corner. Brad likes the car really stiff so it doesn't move when he's man handling it. (and just so I don't sound like a pompas ass, Brad is usually a couple tenths quicker than I am. But then again I did go quicker at the RTH event.)

We can both drive the same car on the same weekend and change set-ups in minutes.

***I just want to point out that our cars are not professional race cars. . .not even close! They use all the same parts we have in our catalog (no special rubber in the air springs, no triple adjustable dampers, no flux capacitor) They are set up by the staff at the event (be it myself, Brad, Bret, or any other ART employee who may be in attendance.) We are not professionally trained race car mechanics or drivers. I grew up with dirt late models, so if we wanted to drift I think I could get one set up to go sideways! These cars have nothing exotic. Just proven parts from proven companies.***

The only thing I have to add to Britt's info is that he really lives and breathes his work. [get it, breathes...air...never mind]
Sorry, couldn't help myself:)

I cannot believe how helpful this thread has been. Hopefully other people interested inbagging their ride have been able to benefit from this thread as much as I have.

Thank you for the info, everybody!
:hail:

65 Impala Images
 

Justanova & Radlark,
Here are some images of the new StrongArm/Shockwave/Musclebar system Rodney is currently developing on our 65 Impala. I really like the sway bar design.


http://www.ridetech.com/Photos/13900DT.jpg
http://www.ridetech.com/Photos/13900GT.jpg
http://www.ridetech.com/Photos/13900CT.jpg
http://www.ridetech.com/Photos/13900ET.jpg
http://www.ridetech.com/Photos/13900FT.jpg

Here are some bigger images.
http://www.ridetech.com/projectview....e=KnownProject

Drooling------------->still drooling!!! Sorry guys forgive me Okay seeing as how it looks like they will be out soon I think I will sell my new Macbook to finance this one!!!

:drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:

that looks awesome, i cant wait till this stuff hits the market, couple questions though, will this setup be offered with shockwaves? do the control arms and ball joints offer more range of motion than stock arms/balljoints as i have drop springs on the car now and am concerned that if i would go lower with the bags that the balljoints may run out of travel. and do you have any idea on pricing? similar to other setups?

I have a feeling you guys will be getting way too much of my money within the next year as now I want to do your system on my nova and now this....I may just do your coolride setup on the impy as of now though but may not be able to resist the arms etc....

once again airridetech. moves the bar higher:cheers:

I will opt for the shockwaves as soon as they hit the market!