Hi 9,

Tight is nice, but consistant is the key.

When all is said and done, this is one of if not THE key area when building any project car. Fit is critical.

I have seen so many cars that would have been breathtaking if they had spent more time on the fit. It is by far the most time consuming, back breaking, tedious and un-glorified aspect of any build, but it is what separated the men from the boys.

Who in their right mind would assemble and dissassemble a car over and over and over and over again just to get the gaps and fit perfect. Because, if done right, when finished, no one should notice. They should see the color, the finish, the engine, the interior, the wheels, etc, etc, etc...

If they notice the gaps and fit it is most likly because they rushed through this phase and they stand out like a sore thumb.

Bob

I would allow 3/4" to 1" for movement purposes. Between engine movement, chassis flex, (if you have any at all), it will move some. I would rather be safe then sorry.

Mike

Hi All,

Here is our current problem

No the problem isn't Wayne. The problem is the width of the front track.

If we leave things exactly as they are, we will end up with a front wheel flares that stick out about 2 1/4", while the flares on the back stick out about 2". If we do this the car will have a rather strange appearance where the front track looks wider than the rear. To resolve this issue we need to shift the front wheels inboard about 1". This will give us a 2" rear and 1 1/2" front flare, which should look more appealing. We were giving consideration to resolving this issue by using front and rear wheels with different backspacing. We didn't really like this idea because we want the wheels to look identical on all 4 corners and a 1" diff in backspacing would be pretty obvious.

So, we called our friends at Maximum Motorsports and asked them if they could make us a custom lower control arm that would be 1" shorter than stock. They recommended that we use a fox control arm which is 3/4" shorter than the SN95 piece.

Wo Hoo!!!

This will solve a number of issues we were having all across the board.

Well, back to work on the fenders, hood and front end.

Catch ya’ll l8r.

Bob
Come see this WIP at
Julian's Collision Center
http://www.julianscollisioncenter.com/

Well you could not have changed the backspacing with those wheels anyways. I had a similar issue with the same set of wheels and there is not enough material to machine off the mounting face to get them to shift inward.

Are you concerned with the narrow track width? I know its not a race car, but thats going to put it off-par of the 03/04 cobra chassis. Hopefully the weight difference will help balance that out :)

Jeff

Hah, Bob you're hilarious!
The only thing better than looking at pics of your awesome project is reading your comments! You're a gifted storyteller... Keep the updates coming!
Thanks,

Hi Jeff,

Actually, I am not really concerned with narrowing the track. And I will tell you why and you can tell me if I am full of it.

Yes the track at the front will be about 2" narrower than the 03, but (on the other hand) the track will be considerably wider than a 65. Also, the wheel base has been extended 7" which should shift the center of gravity (in relation to the wheels) back quite a bit. I will not know how much until I can actually weigh the beast, but on a stock Cobra the center of the front wheel was right between the 2nd and 3rd cyl. Now the CL of the front wheel is actually in front of the 1st cyl. Ya think that might help a bit with front to back weight distribution???

Bob

Hi RD,

I don't know about "storytelling", but, if you ask Wayne, I think the term "smart a$$" might come up.... Once or twice.... If not more. :yes:

Bob

...pulls out scientific calculator.....scratches head....shrugs....

We went from front track width to front/back weight distribution - I'm definately over my head. :)

Jeff

The only thing that will be affected buy using wheels with more back spacing is you scrub radius. All other geometry will stay the same.

Brian

Hi Jeff,

When evaluating the suspension, imagine this as a modified 65 fastback, not a modified 03 Cobra.

That being the case, the differences from stock 65 are....

1) Wider track both front and back (just look at the flares used and you will get a good idea as to how much).

2) McPherson strut front sus with power rack and pinion (not as good as unequal "A" arms, but much better than the 65 stuff especially with the Maximum Motorsports mods).

3) IRS rear (not the best IRS, but much better than the 65 rear especially with the Maximum Motorsports mods).

4) Much, MUCH stiffer chassis.

5) Better weight distribution (the 4.6 sits back farther than the typical Windsor small block).

I hope this helps

Bob

Hi B,

"scrub radius"???

Bob

Absolutely incredible 65 Mustang!! :hail:

When you use a wheel with more back spacing and don’t change the tire or rim size it move the centerline of the wheel in. The scrub radius is the difference in the centerline of the wheel and tire compared to the plane of the ball joint and where they both meet the ground. By moving the wheels in or out you will change the static difference. Less scrub radius= less steering effort since the wheel is actual turning closer to its true centerline. More scrub= more turning effort. That is what I know of scrub radius for now I am no suspension expert but I will begin studding vehicle dynamics this fall In a few more years I can get you a much better answer with the theory and hopefully experience to back it up.

Brian

Hi All,

7-25 update part one…

A lot has transpired since our last real update.

Wayne has been meticulously plodding through all the remaining bodywork. He has spent what seams like endless hours working and reworking everything from the cowl to the rear bumper. He constantly has to point out the reasons to me. A little wave here, a little ripple there, this doesn’t line up quite right, changes to the door effect the contour of the quarter, the body lines that run along the edge of the roof to the trunk are not quite symmetrical, and on and on.

http://www.ymrforums.com/attachment....chmentid=18356

Wayne had to get the doors finished and installed in order to send the car out to the aluminum fabricator. Originally, we were going to have him come to our shop, but he convinced us that he needed the car at his facility to do the job right. The job is to fab up the trim panels that will seal off the top and sides of the dashboard.
I, on the other hand, have been working on mechanical details. The hood latch is almost complete. I am going to remove all the extra material at the back of the bracket after I fit up the front end, grill, hood, etc… I also have located the shock tower brace. I will be able to complete the fabrication of that item after I install the ductwork for the air inlet. I have the welding of the ductwork complete. We just have to have the parts painted to match the blower. We felt that if the paint matches the rest of the engine intake system, it would look like it was supplied by the factory.

http://www.ymrforums.com/attachment....chmentid=18357

I also replaced the lower control arms with the shorter FOX items. You can see the difference in length in the photo below. This solved all the problems with the front wheel / flare clearance issues. We did have to flip flop the caster plates in order to get the correct front end geometry, but other than that, everything went quite well.

http://www.ymrforums.com/attachment....chmentid=18358

While the car is out of our shop, Wayne will be working on the hood. Here is the prelim layout for the bulge.

http://www.ymrforums.com/attachment....chmentid=18359

Here you can see the relief’s we had to cut for under hood clearance.

http://www.ymrforums.com/attachment....chmentid=18360

Continued in part two....

Bob
Come see this WIP at
Julian's Collision Center
http://www.julianscollisioncenter.com/

Hi All,

7-25 update part two…

Finally, here are some photos of the car as she sits waiting for pick up. Upon return, we should be able to complete the front end and get this baby ready for paint.

http://www.ymrforums.com/attachment....chmentid=18361

Here is a shot of the rear end with the lower valance in place. Note that the bottom edge of the valance runs parallel to both the gas tank and the ground. Also, in order for us to get the flare contures correct, we had to shift the bottom of the quarters out about and inch or so. In order to get the rear valance to fit up properly we had to segment the panel (add two pie shaped filler strips). If I hadn’t said anything, you probably would not have noticed.

http://www.ymrforums.com/attachment....chmentid=18362

Here we have two shots of the finished body (at least from the cowl to the rear bumper).

http://www.ymrforums.com/attachment....chmentid=18363

http://www.ymrforums.com/attachment....chmentid=18364

And finally, here are some photos of the interior. The door panels are two that we have used for fit up porposes only. Note how the 03 dash meshes up just right with the 65 door panels. We are going to eliminate the vertical ribs in the center of the door panels and fill that area with a simple padded insert. Maybe we can come up with some embroidery with a SN65 emblem. We are going to use the standard door pulls instead of the pony items. I like the way the standard pulls line up with the angle of the 03 dash.

http://www.ymrforums.com/attachment....chmentid=18365

http://www.ymrforums.com/attachment....chmentid=18366

That’s all for now.

Catch ya’ll l8r.

Bob
Come see this WIP at
Julian's Collision Center
http://www.julianscollisioncenter.com/

The attention to detail you guys are going to is incredible. I can't help but eagerly await the next updates.

Mike

Bob, all I can say is I think a tear formed in the corner of my eye just looking at the last post of pics!!!! That car is friggin' INCREDIBLE! I'm toying with the idea of putting the 4 cam motor in my 85 Mustang LX Coupe with the 6-speed!

Please, please, please post pics of it when it's done! If I was in the area I'd be down there helpin'! Good luck with finishing her up.

John

Hi All,

Check out this thread...

http://www.fordforums.com.au/printthread.php?t=10529

Bob

Guys, you can thank me for starting that thread over here in oz...

I love your work.

The internet makes the world such a small place in some ways.

I've always loved american cars, had a 66 coupe myself previously. But mustangs and camaro's over here are an expensive hobby...

I was browsing this thread, and saw fordforums.com.au then went 'hang on, thats my thread'... I'm a long time browser here, but not usually a lot to say... i admire, but stay silent :)

Welcome to the site! You should make a post in the new members area introducing yourself and if you have a project...we love pictures!!

Tim

i'm currently looking for another project... I will however show you guys my ute, most of you have probably never seen one of these. Nothing flash, just something different for your eyes. I don't think it deserves it's own thread.

[IMG]http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/3...e0021ad.th.jpg[/IMG]

Hi All,

Here is another one...

http://www.dr-mustang.com/index.php?...wtopic&p=81492

Bob

Bob, you guys are everywhere. :thumbsup:

Hi X,

You may be right... Just type in SN65 mustang on any search engine and see what happens. :eek:

I dare you to read them all.

Bob

Bob/Wayne...awesome job on the 65..like stated eariler 'I wish I had the talent or the money to pay someone like you guys with talent". I traveled thru Illinois on Hot Rod Power Tour, too bad I didnt find this site before so I could have stopped by to see this Mustang in person. My first car was a 65 Mustang coupe and doing a fastback has always been a dream. Cant wait to see it on the cover of every magazine. Does Frieburger know about this car??

Hi ST,

Thank you for the kind words. We wanted to be part of the PT this year, but did not finish in time. :-(

Maybe next year. :-)

As far as Frieburger goes, yes he is aware of the project. They will be doing a feature article when we are done.

You know who we would LOVE to get word to is Jay Leno. We would love to get his feedback on the car. We would love to take him for a ride. We would love to be a guest on the tonight show.

Hey Jay!!! You out there man??? Wanna go for a ride???

Bob

If you want a translation of the posts on that German board, let me know, I'm fluent in German. :cool:

The little RESPEKT smilies sum it up pretty well though!

Kris

Hi All,

While the car is off at the alum fabricator, Wayne has been working on the hood “bulge”.

Here we have photos of the stock hood with the cutout for engine clearance, Wayne creating the “bulge” by trimming the 03 Cobra roof to the desired shape, the "bulge" in position on the 65 hood, and the “bulge” welded in place. Wayne still needs to seal off the back edge, but the photos gives you a general idea of the finished hood.

Catch ya’ll l8r.

Bob
Come see this WIP at
Julian's Collision Center
http://www.julianscollisioncenter.com/

that is bad azz man..............love that last picture :hail:

I love that you reused the 03 roof material for the buldge :D

It looks real good :thumbsup:

Hi All,

I just registered the domain SN65.com and am getting ready to download the website. It will have a complete history and photos of the build. The site is currently a work in prosess, but I will be updating and tweaking things (I am sure that I will be getting a lot of input from you all) after I get the site on line and running.

Bob

Hi All,

The site appears to be up and running.

http://sn65.com/

I know that we have a lot of work to get the site complete, but we would be greatful if you could please let us know what you think of the overall site design.

Bob

Hi All,

I am still working on the site (getting things organized and downloaded, etc...)

http://sn65.com/SN65%20chronological...er%2005-08.htm

But, I have downloaded all my photos to date. If you follow the link above, you will see all the images of the hood (as of 9AM today).

Also, we just got the car back from the shop doing the dash modifications and I am really pumped. It looks great, but you can voice your opinions tomorrow after I post the photos.

After I get things all situated at the site, I will be able to post links to the photos just as I have done in the past.

We are getting closer and closer to completion. I can hardly wait to fire this sucker up.

Catch ya'll l8r.

Bob

Site looks great. Very informative. I don't know whether to applaud you guys or call the looney bin and have you locked up. But since it looks like there's light at the end of the tunnel, I guess applause are in order. Nice work.
/Steevo
:clap: :clap: :clap:

Hi All,

First off, let’s take a look at the hood with its first coat of primer.

http://sn65.com/images/SN65%20Images...-05%20(16).jpg

In this photo you can see the 1 1/2" rise at the back of the hood. Note how subtle the "bulge" blends into the hood at the edges. I think this is going to look just fantastic. Everyone in the shop was sitting on a egg crate (behind the hood) looking down its length while they pretended to drive the car. It should look pretty impressive from the cockpit while looking pretty tame from the outside of the car.

I have been watching Wayne work on the hood for the past week (He has over 60 hours in it right now) and I am having trouble believing that it has taken this much time to get it in primer. It looks seamless to me. He spent a lot of time working the transition from the bulge to the hood in an attempt to duplicate the transition from the rear glass to the trunk. Once the car is complete, I imagine that people will only give it a passing glance and say “Nice hood.” While this will probably tick Wayne off (He wishes that people would realize just how much work was involved), I keep telling him that the better he does his job, the less people will notice.

With that said, let’s look at the modified dash.

http://sn65.com/images/SN65%20Images/05-08-05.jpg

http://sn65.com/images/SN65%20Images/05-08-05%20(4).jpg

This is going to look great once we cover the panels in matching vinyl. I really like the way the fabricated panel curves and undulates as it makes its way from one end of the dash to the other. Right now, I could not be happier. I guess we will truly see once it is covered and reinstalled.

Hopefully the pictures will show up just as they always have. For more detailed shots follow the link below.

http://sn65.com/SN65%20chronological...er%2005-08.htm

This will take you to all the photos for August.

Catch ya'll l8r.

Bob
http://sn65.com/

Hi All,

I have just updated the "Forum" page on the website.

If one of the moderators could write up a little blurb about this site, I will insert the comment under the link to the site.

http://sn65.com/SN65%20forums.htm

Catch ya'll l8r.

Bob
http://sn65.com/

Hi All,

This weekend Wayne blocked the hood. Here you can see a photo of the hood with the guide coat (prior to any sanding).

http://sn65.com/images/SN65%20Images/05-08-08%20004.jpg

I, on the other hand, spent my time sanding interior panels and misc parts so that Wayne could get them in primer.

http://sn65.com/images/SN65%20Images/05-08-08%20010.jpg

I still have a bunch of miscellaneous parts to sand. This has got to be the biggest pain in the butt in regard to the entire project. Just when you finish sanding one part, another has to be sanded. I would much rather prefer assembling, or any other aspect of the project for that matter, than this incessant sanding. WILL IT EVER END??? :-)

With that said, along with sanding our guts out, we plan on finishing up the electrical and plumbing details so that we can fire up the beast by the end of the week. We will be posting a video of the proud event on the website.

Catch ya'll l8r.

Bob
http://sn65.com/

Hi All,

Just got the weight figures from "Competition Fabrication" (the people who fabbed up the dash panels).

A drum roll please.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.

2,900 lbs as she sits right now. I am not quite sure exactly how much weight we are going to add, but Wayne says figure right about 500 lbs. That should land us in the 3,400 lbs vicinity. Not to bad.

Also, I was talking to them about valuation. They say that the current cars being fabbed in their shop cost their owner’s approx $250K when complete.

They also said that it was fun watching their customer’s expressions as they viewed the SN65 in their shop. Everyone’s expressions were pretty much the same and it would go something like this....

They would glance at the car as they passed by (just a early mustang). They would get about 10 feet past the car, turn around, walk back and look at the engine bay (cool, a early mustang with a blown engine). They would start to walk away, stop, turn around stare at the car and scratch their heads. They would look over at the guys in the shop and say "What year is this mustang anyway?" The guys in the shop wouldn't say a word. They would just watch the guy as he walked around and around the car. It seams that just as they thought they had it all figured out and started to walk away, they would turn around and go look at another area of the car.

They said that they had more fun watching people as they tried to figure out exactly what they were looking at. I only wish I had been there.

Anyway....

Catch ya'll l8r.

Bob
http://sn65.com/

Hi All,

Today I downloaded some updates to the site. I spent all last night formatting cells and tables. I have reworked the home page so that, hopefully, it will work with all browsers. Also, I have added a page with amusing tidbits. There is nothing that would be considered radical, just things that I found interesting or brought a smile to my face.

We have things organized and ready to install for the big "turning the key for the first time" ceremony. I just have a few remaining items that should be arriving today. If all goes well, we should be ready to fire it up tomorrow.

Wish us luck. We will need it.

Bob

Bob, the site is looking good. The only thing I noticed is that the homepage isn't optimized for 800x600. The other pages are. No biggie, really, I just thought I'd let you know. To be honest, I don't know how many people even use 800x600 as their desktop resolution anymore.

Can't wait to hear the report on starting it up! :thumbsup: