I'm with you,I think I have tried just about every paintline there is or was avaliable from Sikkens,to ICI,to PPG,Glasurit,Diamont,DuPont,Martin Senior,Lessonal,Sherwin,Valspar,Pro-spray,SpiesHecker,Matrix, and some other ones,but if you try Matrix,you will want to forget about 4th dimension, try Matrix AG42 clear,you will not want to use anything else,

the main reason I went tru so many paintlines is to find the best match, and I can tell you, just stick with whatever system you use,some paint brands have better matches on domestics,some do better on imports, I have found that Sherwin Williams Ultra 7000 has awsome match on late model Hondas and Acuras,as I've painted and did alot of spot paint work on brand new Acuras,painted and installed spoilers on them , but for all over resprays Matrix is untouchable with ,coverage and ease to work with

hows the cost on the matrix stuff? and who carries it?

try to google your area body shop supply stores,and BTW, I've done a few Supras with Matrix back in 97 and till this day it looks like I just did it ,and it was the regular 4:1 mixing ratio clear, AG 40 is high-solids clearcoat with awsome UV protectants,I've manipulated and experimented with that clear so many times ,and I'm amazed ,you will forget what solvent pop is even if you hose on coat after coat after coat with no flash time, even if you mix in reducer,there is virtually no die-back and it's not hard to buff, use slow or very slow hardener and you will have glass-like finish,with the right gun anyone can lay it down with amazing results and best part,5 liter kit cost around $175

thanks ill definatley have to try that. Im at the point where i want to start broadening my horizens anyway. Im 22 years old and have only been painting a little over 3 years, I think iam starting to get the hang of it and am contemplating making a career out of it. I really appreciate all the help.

I use Dupont Chroma series for most jobs. I will use the higher end Dupont or HOK when the job calls for it. I have used all the cheap stuff over the last 15 years. Learned by trial and error like you are, and with every paint job, I bought nicer paint and nicer guns. Gone from $50 gal paint and $50 paint guns to $400 gal paint and $400 paint guns.

You will never realize it with overall paint jobs, but trying blending a collision job with cheap paint. Isn't going to happen unless you are a professional at blending and even then is a SOB. Not worth the headache.

i only do full paint jobs so i havent had the problem of blending.

Good info guys! I personally have only done some very small jobs with a couple cars I wasn't afraid to mess up. I had an 83 Camaro years ago that I didn't mind making a mistake on and then helped my mom paint her 89 S-10 Blazer. We did all the paint prep and priming in the shop I owned at the time and took it to a friend of mine for the final paint. Since my IROC is one I plan to keep, I don't want to screw it up if I make a big mistake. This is why I'm researching shops to do the work. Either way, keep the comments going - I'd love to see more.

well, since we are on the topic of advice, what do you guys use when color sanding, buffing, polishing? Any particular brands you guys like? Ive been using 3m stuff and it seems to work well, its just kinda expensive.

I use one product in my shop SYSTEM ONE! no other product in my shop. One product for all three steps! :hail:

is the price comparable to the 3m brand stuff?
what makes it so good?
sorry for all the ?s

sand and polishing paint
 

WE do it a little on the old school way still. We use dry 1200 on a finishing DA and then use the foam 3000 pads wet. Then polish with a Mequires red foam pad then a final buff with a smoother black 3m pad and polish. Take awhile to do ti right but the final outcome is very flat paint with no orange peel. Like glass!!:hail:

what compound do you use? also, got any pis of the finished product?

the only way to get a troy like paint job or other hi end job, is to clear it 2-3 coats, sand it with hard block 600,800, re clear 2 coats, sand 1000,1500,2000 or higher, buff, then polish. clear will get wavy, and sanding with a da will make the clear fat, but will leave fat ladys ass everywhere, been there done that
also the meguirs one creme, 3 pad polish system is killer, as well as carborundum's deal, work s so nice.

3m perfect it ... NO DA ... water sand 1200 - single-stage DuPont Chroma Premier
http://www.competition-specialties.c.../gfiffin30.jpg

The fat lady ass marks are because you are not using the DA correctly. Look under my customers links in my signiture and see flat paint no fat lady ass marks.

I will have to wait to get you the polish numbers at work.

i am not talking about the little swirls the da leaves from the clear clogging the paper, i do not let a da within 100 ft of a cleared hot rod, maybe a in and out collision job.
i can promise a hand cut buff and polish will blow away a da finish any day of the week,

heres my current project.
1200 grit wet sanded with foam pad, cut with 3m perfect it, polished with 3m Finess it.
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...X/HPIM1405.jpg
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...X/HPIM1394.jpg

D/A is for lazy slackers,the finish will never be flat,especially when working on a vehicle with many curves where d/a sander will not lay flat,and will never reach in some corners, that's why I use hard rubber block and sanded flat and wrapped in masking tape mixing stick ,when it's all blocked down with 1000,I move up to 1200,1500,2000 and then use Kovax film on soft foam,then I use 3M Perfect-it II rubbing compoind on Meguiars Burgundy cutting pad, I got it dialed in so much that I can buff solid black paint and leave no swirls,the pad has to be broken in though, I've tried recommending my trick to few painters and none of them could get the results I'm getting,lol, it takes alot of patience and knowing your tools,as I never buff at high speed,I start cutting at around 1500 rpms,when I know that all sanding scratches are gone, I turn down the speed all the way down and do 15-20 passes ,pad must be loaded with compound and moist, I'm sure everyone has their own tricks and tecnique ,but it makes me cringe when I see some detailers turn up the speed to 7000 and try to buff with wool garbage,compound slinging all over the place,swirls that have to be sanded out,burnt edges,e.t.c.

Actually I will partially agree and partially disagree with you. Hand sanded cars will look as good as a DA sanded car, with that said you must know I dont DA the entire car. It cant be done. NOBODY is that good. EVer! Now what I do is all the flat areas get DA'd and the curved areas get 1200-1500 depending on paint peel in that region. After that I take the 3000 pad by hand and hand DA it so the paint will polish perfectly without burning thru the clear.

I agree :cheers:

What do you mean by this. I thought you guys were talking about whatever line he uses and I believe this is a DuPont color. I just bought some but haven't cracked the seal. Lemme know.

I meant whatever the 4th dimesion has in black for GM black

I cant beleive that people dont complain about the straightline scratches you have when blocking the paint either ...........but to each his own.
I dont have an expensive camera here at the shop. I only use the one I use for the insurance work I do.
The picture I threw on here is a close up of a curved section of the car you can see the reflection is clean.

Look all this keyboard clipping of each others work is BS. The chance of this happening is so slim it wont happen, but if all of us here brought our work and parked it side by side, probably nobody could tell the difference in the paint jobs. We each have opinions on which way is correct. I only stated the thing about the fat lady ass remark because in my experience (doing this since 1982) the reason that happens is because the person running the DA was inexperienced. Tell me Im wrong???? That was not a dig at anyone just the facts as I have seen them in the last 20+ years.

One thing Im surprized at is noone has said this so I will. DAing a car with 1200 will not take off enough paint / clear to make fat lady ass marks. Unless the DA is up on edge. (thats not the correct way to use it anyway) And then 3000 that really doesnt take anything off either. ...And if you are DAing that way, you need to put the DA down and step away from the finish.

For the record ,all the work we do here gets no DA to it untill polish time. All cars are hand blocked (several times all the way to the sealer/paint time). I could see real fast that a DA could make fat lady ass marks in the paint job if it was used prior to paint. Thats why we dont do it. I have done cars and they are all over the US. Some of the work I did is now 20 years old, back then we used different materials. Todays materials are made for production shops, thus they have their own temperments. How people use them is how the end result looks once completed. My rule is the smoother you shoot it the less you buff. Primers included.

I can only vouch for the work we do here and it has been far suprerior than anyone in about a 200 mile radius that I have seen. If anyone wants to tour the shop here and your in the KC/ Topeka area sometime come on over. I tour all the time for travelers. I am part of 2 national car clubs and people traveling thru tour all the time. I have a brand new Morton building and a 30x30 paint room we shoot them in. In the mean time some of us need to step back and think about the slaps that are being thrown over a keyboard since you'all really dont know what really goes on....in anyones shop.

This is the only place a D/A belongs on a finished car :yes:

http://www.competition-specialties.com/pics/da.jpg

whatever:rolleyes:

Yup, a DA will ruin one quick. Rat tails everywhere, burn through edges, make the clear uneven, wavy. Really the cheaters way.

Maybe I'm ignorant, but I'd never dream of using a DA with any grit paper on a painted and cleared surface. That's just me though.

Now, does anyone have any other recommendations? ;) We've gotten a little off topic. Thanks!!

2guys 1 week 80 hrs At 50 hr 4000.00
2guys 2 weeks 160 hrs at 50hr 8000.00
that's at only $50 hr and most shops are more then that

Now add paint Your looking at 6-10 grand

Remember the famous saying this isn't a show car I don't want a show paint job ..Till you get your car back and you start picking it apart and saying what about this and that. Then your telling everyone how you got the shaft and that guy S**ks...But remember you didn't want a show paint job

Good luck and remember were the DA belongs

lol, you have no idea what fat ladys arse is, lol. It is or has nothing to do with da marks. then you come on here and start acting like you know what your talking about.

p.s pete, that pic was great. te only time my da's get used is when stripping or polishing metal

anyways...... i was gonna ask what you guys think of the Sharpe brand of guns. The razor model in particular compared to some of the devilbiss or iwata guns?

sharpe is decent, but iwata and sata are on top of the heap. i would buy a used sata before a new devilbiss or sharpe. but the sharpe will definitely work for you. Its just as you get better and better you will want to perfect everything

I use a pressure cup system made by Matson. I can flip canisters and paint multiple colors all at once. I love it. My painter likes the Sata gravity feed. Its all what your used too.

nothing wrong with Sharpe, except it's about half the cost of Iwata or Sata,they are more higher quality guns,if you end up buyng used gun, make sure it sprays right before paying for it, my brother got screwed a few times buying used Sata guns,I'd rather pay full price for new one than buying used gun,unless it's a steal of a deal

I may have found a guy local (he's actually my wife's cousin) who has done some paint work on the side. He does fantastic work from the cars I've seen, so I plan to ask him if he'd be interested in doing my car in my garage through final prep and then paint it in a booth. I have a friend in Sandersville that owns a shop that would probably shoot the final spray for me so I'm going explore that route. What I need to know since ya'll were talking about paint brands, what's a good middle of the road paint system to use? I have used PPG products before so I know a little about how they're mixed etc. Is there something that would be comperable price wise that produces better results?

Thanks!

Good news for me. I called the friend of mine in Sandersville and after talking to him for a few minutes he said he could probably do the all over paint for about $2000. I'm thinking he quoted me a little low, but still think it'll be less than $3500 or so. The bad news is that he's so booked that it'll be at least 2-3 weeks before he can start on it. I figure I've waited this long, I can wait a little longer. When I asked what paint system he uses these days, he said it's a German company. It's funny because my 95 Z28 was the first car he painted with that German paint 10 years ago when we was first trying it out. (at least it's funny to me!) I'm probably going to go with him since I know what kind of work he does (he's the one that painted the car almost 15 years ago - man I'm gettin' old!). He's a good guy so I know he'll do me right. I'm excited - it's been awhile since I had a nice looking car to drive. :D

can you put up pics of the car your painting

I'll do my best to get some up this weekend. I haven't been able to this week because of the weather and it getting dark so soon after I get off work.

x2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DOH - Crappy weather keeps preventing me from getting pics of my car. It's raining today here so probably won't have any posted today either. Imagine this - the clear is peeling up in sheets because of the base reacting (it's literally falling apart under the clear). Whenever it rains, I end up with more and more clear peeling up. All the horizontal surfaces are just about completely peeled up with only the base left on the car (if this helps at all). The good news is that it should really make getting the clear off easy. I am guessing a trip to the car wash pressure washer will probably blow most of the clear right off the car. A razor blade may get quite a bit off too. I haven't tried that yet either.

Right now, I'm shopping for a new or good used rear bumper cover (mine is wavy) and a new hood, probably ASCD SS hood or something similar. I already have a new front chin spoiler and the rest of the GFX are in decent shape, so no need to replace them.

I'm also looking at a set of C6 Corvette 18/19's for it off e-Bay. The car should look pretty nice when I'm done. :D